8/12 @ Toronto

[Palodios]

For 12 million, this team can pick up two very good setup guys for Bard. I think that's better than having an elite setup guy, an average closer, and a weak middle bullpen.

[Dojji]

No they can't, the FA market isn't going to yield the Sox 2 setup men. Yeah they can cover the salaries, but they ain't gonna find 'em.

[Palodios]

Why not? You might not like the FA market for relievers this year, but there are more than enough options. I'd take Wheeler, Balfour, Fraser, Puts, Downs, Ohman, Soriono, Wagner, Francisco, Greg..... over anyone in this rotation besides Bard and Papelbon.

[a700hitter]

For 12 million' date=' this team can pick up two very good setup guys for Bard. I think that's better than having an elite setup guy, an average closer, and a weak middle bullpen.[/quote']The problem with getting two high quality arms for the pen is that high performing bullpen pitchers are looking for the closer's role. To get a high quality arm on the FA

Market that will take the 7th inning role would probably require paying a premium price. Bard is under team control. He has no leverage to demand the closer's role. It's a tremendous luxury and value to keep Bard in the 8th inning role. We will never come close to getting anyone as good as Bard for the 8th inning. That's just my opinion. I think those two big horses at the end of the pen are very very valuable.

[Dojji]

Why not? You might not like the FA market for relievers this year' date=' but there are more than enough options. I'd take Wheeler, Balfour, Fraser, Puts, Downs, Ohman, Soriono, Wagner, Francisco, Greg..... over anyone in this rotation besides Bard and Papelbon.[/quote']

 

of those guys the only ones worth touching are Downs and Putz, and those two are probably going to be closers at the end of next offseason.

[Will617]

Closers are a volatile commodity - see Brad Lidge, Brian Fuentes, etc. Paps' year so far is pretty poor for him, and the numbers are troubling, but I'd think that he's worth paying the money for at least another year. The Toronto outing was a little unlucky for him - two first pitch swings (which might be the Jays' MO, idk, but it's still very unusual). I wouldn't mind shelling out the money for Putz, Soriano, or Balfour, don't really trust Wheeler, Francisco, or Gregg, and don't really know the rest - except Downs, who I wouldn't imagine is worth the first rounder.

[Palodios]

of those guys the only ones worth touching are Downs and Putz' date=' and those two are probably going to be closers at the end of next offseason.[/quote']

 

Give me one good reason why Papelbon is better than any two of those guys. You seem to be blowing off that entire group without explanation or stat overview. Can you honestly say that any single one of them wouldn't improve this bullpen?

 

Papelbon is staying another year, simply because they'll get more value from two draft picks in 2011 than trading him now. But he's quickly falling out of "elite closer" status.

[a700hitter]

Give me one good reason why Papelbon is better than any two of those guys. You seem to be blowing off that entire group without explanation or stat overview. Can you honestly say that any single one of them wouldn't improve this bullpen?

 

Papelbon is staying another year, simply because they'll get more value from two draft picks in 2011 than trading him now. But he's quickly falling out of "elite closer" status.

The good guys in that group want closer's jobs. The rest of the group would give Tito ulcers.

[Palodios]

They're not going to all get a closer job. They're not going to give Tito as many ulcers as the bullpen gave him this year. And I'm sure half of the "good" ones are willing to setup for a contender if they're overpaid, because they're simply not good enough to close in a big market team.

[a700hitter]

The good guys in that group want closer's jobs. The rest of the group would give Tito ulcers.

Maybe. I'll be glad to have Papelbon around for another season.

[Yaz Sideburn]

For 12 million' date=' this team can pick up two very good setup guys for Bard. I think that's better than having an elite setup guy, an average closer, and a weak middle bullpen.[/quote']

 

if kerry wood commanded a $10 million contract to be a closer, just imagine what more reliable relievers out there are going to be asking in free agency

[Palodios]

I think its fair to say that Cleveland is a poorly run franchise. Here's a list of the last two years. Most of the top tier guys were getting 1/6 or 2/12 type deals in 2010.

 

2010 http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-freeagenttrackerbypos111909#free-rp

 

2009 http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-freeagenttrackerbypos111008#free-rp

[ORS]

Saying that the FO bears responsibility is not a condemnation. It is part of being accountable. Papelbon will end up with 3 or 4 more blown saves than usual. If we miss the playoffs by 3 or 4 games' date=' he bears responsibility too. Does that mean that I think he stinks and I want him off the team? No, I'd like to see him at the end of the bullpen with Bard until we start having to pay Bard big $. The same thing with the FO. I think they do an overall fine job, but with the 2010 club they seriously miscalculated on their balancing act of winning now vs. long term. They should have done more. I don't think they need to do a lot more, but let's face it, they did nothing.[/quote']

I don't see this. One big move might get them to the point where they are on the inside looking out right now, as opposed to the opposite being true, but I don't think a big bat, or a lefty reliever, or an all-star OF puts them into the "strong favorites" category. Given what it could have cost to acquire a "big move" player, I don't think the word miscalculation can be thrown around as cavalierly as you are doing it. They still need to try and win in 2011, and 2012, and 2013, and so on.