The Bullpen Thread

[Spudboy]

Manuel has been lights out in Pawtucket recently.

[Palodios]

Manuel has been lights out in Pawtucket recently.

 

Yeah, I suggested earlier I wanted to see what he can do, but it seems like they're more willing to throw out these triple A, 6 ERA flops in there.

[jacksonianmarch]

Might be due to options, though. Remember, there are some guys you can call up and option back down. Then there are guys who once called up, have to be passed through waivers to send back down

[Palodios]

I don't think that's the case. he was on the roster a week or two ago, and they sent him back down without using him. If he only had one option, then they f***ed up royally. And either way, he's far and beyond the best option this team has, considering they really have only one reliable bullpen guy at this point-- and he's pitched far too many young innings with a young arm.

[Palodios]

The sox bullpen has an ERA of 4.80. So bad, that the only team whose bullpen is worse than them is the Guardians, and well, the Guardians barely count as a mlb team right now.

[lasitter]

So what's up with this?

 

http://tinyurl.com/33xwfrs

 

I still like the idea of safety in numbers / many small trades versus one or two fat trades.

 

If you could sign 10 pitchers with any relief potential for $1 million each, the chances are good that at least ONE of them would surprise you and be able to find home plate.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you throw enough s*** against the wall, eventually it will stick. I think this could be insurance for Okajima, since he's been hideous this yr. The sox need a lefty reliever who can get lefties out, especially against teams like TB (Pena), NYY (Granderson, Cano, Gardner), and Minnesota (Mauer, Morneau, Kubel). Thing about Hill is, he is a pretty mentally fragile pitcher, and Boston probably isnt the right place for someone of his ilk

[jacksonianmarch]

Just looked at the numbers. The sox relievers after Paps and Bard have a combined line of...

 

139IP 166H 85ER 70BB 113K 5.50ERA 1.70WHIP

 

Their bridge exploded

[Palodios]

I'm fairly certain Richardson is their current solution for a lefty pitcher. The kid has potential, but its hard to say how good is he with less than 6 innings pitched.

[Yaz Sideburn]

middle relief is certainly a concern for the red sox but that's an easy fix at the deadline. i also think it will help to get manny delcarmen healthy, he was quietly having a great year before his forearm strain. he had an ERA in the low 3's and 2's all year until his last outing

[jacksonianmarch]

On the contrary, middle relief is incredibly HARD to fix at the deadline. It is a common need for teams, so mediocre pitchers end up having an incredible price tag affixed to them. Those deadline deals typically are the ones you look back on yrs later as the worst deals of all time

[Yaz Sideburn]

adding one quality middle reliever is not nearly as hard as trying to acquire a big fix like an impact bat or top of the line starter or even a closer. sure there's a lot of demand for it, but it generally doesn't cost that much to acquire a relief pitcher for the last 2 months of the season ala Billy Wagner last year

[lasitter]

Mentioning Wagner, he's 5-0 with a 1.39 ERA at Atlanta this year, and they apparently got him for less than seven million.

 

Looking at what we're paying Beckett to sit, and other pitchers to blow it when the stand up, it has got to be one of the greatest missed opportunities that we did not make it worth his while to stay, and F#$K all if Pap's feelings were hurt in the process.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Just looked at the numbers. The sox relievers after Paps and Bard have a combined line of...

 

139IP 166H 85ER 70BB 113K 5.50ERA 1.70WHIP

 

Their bridge exploded

 

Yankees bullpen after Rivera/Mitre (two best performers), 5.13 ERA. Not many teams have good MR pitchers after maybe one or two guys

[Yaz Sideburn]

as bad as our bullpen is, it could be worse. the yankees don't have anyone decent setting up and their current bullpen beyond rivera has a 6.08 ERA

[example1]

Mentioning Wagner, he's 5-0 with a 1.39 ERA at Atlanta this year, and they apparently got him for less than seven million.

 

Looking at what we're paying Beckett to sit, and other pitchers to blow it when the stand up, it has got to be one of the greatest missed opportunities that we did not make it worth his while to stay, and F#$K all if Pap's feelings were hurt in the process.

 

I'm going to put my chips on the spots marked "Kolbrin Vitek" and "Anthony Ranaudo".

[jacksonianmarch]

of course you would. Wagner on the sox team has them in 1st

[Yaz Sideburn]

i'm with you example. wagner would be great this year but i'd rather have the prospects and $7 million's a little pricey for a middle reliever

[jacksonianmarch]

But lets say the sox dont make the playoffs based on 1 game. Let's just put that out there. Would Wagner have been worth the playoff appearance?

[Yaz Sideburn]

what free agent would his $7 million contract be replacing on the team?

[jacksonianmarch]

Maybe you wouldnt have gotten Atchison or Schoeneweis

[Yaz Sideburn]

that accounts for less than $1 million of wagner's $7 million contract. if the sox signed wagner they wouldn't have signed a player like beltre, scutaro, beckett or cameron and they wouldn't have gotten the two draft picks

[jacksonianmarch]

They would have signed the same amount of players, IMO

[lasitter]

i'm with you example. wagner would be great this year but i'd rather have the prospects and $7 million's a little pricey for a middle reliever

 

Save me. If he could have that ERA for the Sox he'd be worth DOUBLE the money.

 

When you look at the games blown by hapless middle relievers and figure the cost per win / per loss, he'd be worth several times his weight in gold.

 

He could have been happy here if he could just have been in line to make some saves.

 

And by putting that off-limits, where has that got us with the losses and blown saves?

 

I think you have to do whatever the TEAM needs at the time, and if someone can't deal with that you have to be prepared to move on.

[Yaz Sideburn]

it's unlikely that they had an extra $7 million to spend and they didn't spend it

[lasitter]

it's unlikely that they had an extra $7 million to spend and they didn't spend it

All it takes is a few disastrous mega-deals and all kinds of money goes up in smoke.

 

I'm glad he can hit homers off of Oriole pitching, but could we really not have come up with a better value than spending $14m on Drew?

 

If this team could spend some time focusing on small ball versus money ball you wouldn't have to spend so much on big price tag long ball hitters and you'd have more money for pitching and speed on the bases. You'd be able to win one-run and extra inning ball games consistently.

[Yaz Sideburn]

not to be rude, but i think the argument's starting to get a little out there when there are some people claiming that it would have been worth $14 million to sign billy wagner as our second set up guy. hypothetically, if we did have an extra $7-$14 million lying around last offseason and we didn't spend it, i could think of a lot better ways to spend it than billy wagner

[Yaz Sideburn]

yes, if only we had a time machine and we could go back 3 years and not sign jd drew so we could have signed billy wagner this offseason. now we're getting somewhere

[Keeper]

Couldn't have known at the time, but losing Saito really threw a monkey wrench into the bullpen.

 

Craig Breslow might be a good option. He's been nails this year, and he has a very good track record.

[lasitter]

hypothetically' date=' if we did have an extra $7-$14 million lying around last offseason and we didn't spend it, i could think of a lot better ways to spend it than billy wagner[/quote']My point is that the decisions you make today determine how much cash you have left tomorrow.

 

A reliever with an under 2.0 ERA can have a huge won / loss impact. Compared to a 14 million dollar outfielder, I'd love to have TWO Wagners.

 

When you dump a load of cash on a player in a long term contract, you have to be right about if they'll stay healthy and EVERYTHING they're going to do, and for a long time.

 

That's my point.