Can we talk about Dice-k?

[SCM33]

A colossal wast of money. He is one of the biggest bust acquisitions in team history. They spent superstar money to get an erratic number 5 starter with training and health issues. I'd rather have kept Bronson Arroyo.

 

Dont forget his s***** attitude..and dont give me the whole lost in translation BS. He is a turd.

 

Unfortunately, the current team is littered with busts and this regime has had a knack for signing busts.

 

Lackey

Beckett

Drew (not trying to start an argument, but some will say he has been a bust)

DiceK

Clement

Lugo

Crisp

Wily Mo Pena

Renteria

 

Thats a lot of busts. Who were some before that?

 

Everett

Offerman

Arrojo, although not much was expected.

Avery

 

I guess you cant have busts if you arent trying to win. At least they are spending money and have brought in 2 championships, but that is still a lot of wasted money.

[a700hitter]

Dont forget his s***** attitude..and dont give me the whole lost in translation BS. He is a turd.

 

Unfortunately, the current team is littered with busts and this regime has had a knack for signing busts.

 

Lackey

Beckett

Drew (not trying to start an argument, but some will say he has been a bust)

DiceK

Clement

Lugo

Crisp

Wily Mo Pena

Renteria

 

Thats a lot of busts. Who were some before that?

 

Everett

Offerman

Arrojo, although not much was expected.

Avery

 

I guess you cant have busts if you arent trying to win. At least they are spending money and have brought in 2 championships, but that is still a lot of wasted money.

They weren't busts. It was just bad luck.

[example1]

I don't want to nitpick, but the $103m the Sox have spent on Dice-K isn't entirely salary and doesn't impact this team's bottom line the same way that $103 would for most acquisitions.

 

As an investment the $50m was a statement that the Sox are competitive on an international level and are a team to be reckoned with; it drew a lot of fan interest (even among die-hards) and was a truly interesting story. He is a hero in Japan, and whether people like it or not, there will be other Japanese stars coming this way. The Sox want to be able to get them. Thanks to the red-carpet they rolled out to Dice-K I believe they are now a destination team for Japanese players. They won a World Series with him on their team (a season in which he had 200+ IP and 200+ K) and they got to the ALCS the next year when he improbably finished with some really good numbers.

 

He's a mid-rotation starter on most teams, which makes him a #4 or #5 on the Red Sox at best. This year the Red Sox paid him $8 million and still went up against the luxury tax threshold, despite having paid so much "under the table" with the posting fee. In other words, it afforded them some room under the 'cap' and they spent it on players rather than keeping it. Ownership has swallowed the loss, so far.

 

I'm actually okay with having him on this team. Between Beckett, Lackey and Matsuzaka I'm not sure who I would bet on to become a #2 caliber starter again. With Matsuzaka's improved velocity and periods of effectiveness, part of me wonders if he will cap off his career in Boston with a good season or two. He's got the stuff he just needs to get his command back and spend a whole season healthy.

[a700hitter]

I don't want to nitpick, but the $103m the Sox have spent on Dice-K isn't entirely salary and doesn't impact this team's bottom line the same way that $103 would for most acquisitions.

 

As an investment the $50m was a statement that the Sox are competitive on an international level and are a team to be reckoned with; it drew a lot of fan interest (even among die-hards) and was a truly interesting story. He is a hero in Japan, and whether people like it or not, there will be other Japanese stars coming this way. The Sox want to be able to get them. Thanks to the red-carpet they rolled out to Dice-K I believe they are now a destination team for Japanese players. They won a World Series with him on their team (a season in which he had 200+ IP and 200+ K) and they got to the ALCS the next year when he improbably finished with some really good numbers.

 

He's a mid-rotation starter on most teams, which makes him a #4 or #5 on the Red Sox at best. This year the Red Sox paid him $8 million and still went up against the luxury tax threshold, despite having paid so much "under the table" with the posting fee. In other words, it afforded them some room under the 'cap' and they spent it on players rather than keeping it. Ownership has swallowed the loss, so far.

 

I'm actually okay with having him on this team. Between Beckett, Lackey and Matsuzaka I'm not sure who I would bet on to become a #2 caliber starter again. With Matsuzaka's improved velocity and periods of effectiveness, part of me wonders if he will cap off his career in Boston with a good season or two. He's got the stuff he just needs to get his command back and spend a whole season healthy.

Of course it hits their bottom line. Real cash expenditures always do unless there a dollar for dollar tax credit is available. No such credit is available for this. This payment may not impact payroll for purposes of luxury tax but it does affect profit and loss. Let's be clear that this fee bought nothing other than right to exclusively negotiate with Dice K. It purchased no licenses, patents or copyrighted property for marketing in Japan. Future ballplayers from Japan will either go thru the current blind bid auction system or thru free agency. Under neither system will the Red Sox have any advantage over other teams. Future Japanese players will go to the teams that bid or pay the most. There is no income stream created by this negotiating fee that has been disclosed by the Red Sox to my knowledge. It was a fee for the exclusive right to negotiate and it bought nothing else.

[doramide7]

I think he is what he is at this point - we're probably going to continue to see solid starts and some stink bombs mixed in from time to time. Just have to take the good with the bad.

 

WHIP effects everyone eventually. He and Lackey are just lucky they were playing the A's. Most any other team hangs a 7 on those guys

[Station 13]

WHIP effects everyone eventually. He and Lackey are just lucky they were playing the A's. Most any other team hangs a 7 on those guys

 

Or Dice-K pull a Houdini act.

 

Lackey stinks.

 

I would think they have some trade in mind for Dice-K to the NL.

[mvp 78]

Steve Avery was a bust? Did anyone expect jack s*** out of him.

Carl Everett came here and was lauded with chants of "MVP."

Did Coco come in here and underperform? Not really. He stayed basically the same player.

Offerman was a POS who everyone knew was overpaid even before he got off the bus.

Arrojo? What's the point in mentioning him?

Drew isn't a bust, just mildly overpaid.

Beckett was a bust? Without him there'd be no 07.

 

The sox have tons of money. If they overpay for players, it's fine by me.

[SCM33]

Steve Avery was a bust? Did anyone expect jack s*** out of him.

Carl Everett came here and was lauded with chants of "MVP."

Did Coco come in here and underperform? Not really. He stayed basically the same player.

Offerman was a POS who everyone knew was overpaid even before he got off the bus.

Arrojo? What's the point in mentioning him?

Drew isn't a bust, just mildly overpaid.

Beckett was a bust? Without him there'd be no 07.

 

The sox have tons of money. If they overpay for players, it's fine by me.

 

Umm yeah actually they did expect Avery to be the ace of that 97 team, probably ahead of your time.

 

Everett and MVP chants? That lasted about half a season.

 

Coco was brought in with high expectations after a solid season in CLE. Howd that work out?

 

Offerman, anyway you slice it....was a bust.

 

Im not touching Drew bc I happen to like him.

 

Beckett....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA....really? Not even worth arguing. Hes f***ing awful.

 

Note: I agree with spending money, since they charge the highest ticket prices in all of baseball....more busts recently has led to 2 championships.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Let's talk about Dice-K..better play good tomorrow or else!

[a700hitter]

Let's talk about Dice-K..better play good tomorrow or else!

He came here with the reputation as a big game pitcher. Today is put up or shut up time. We're facing a minor leaguer.

[Station 13]

We're facing a minor leaguer.

 

Same clown who held us to 2 run in 6 innings last time? Can they lit up his ass and send him packing?

:thumbsup:

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Same clown who held us to 2 run in 6 innings last time? Can they lit up his ass and send him packing?

:thumbsup:

 

Seeing the last two games it's a possibility.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, not really before my time. Thanks for assuming though.

[Dipre]

Tonight's game was one of Dice-K's finest efforts in a Red Sox uniform. I'd hope that, at least until next season, no one bitches and moans about him or calls him semi-racist Japanese based names or slang terms.

 

At least tonight, he lived up to his reputation as a big-game pitcher.

 

Focus your rage on JD Drew or something. Oh wait.....

[example1]

Tonight's game was one of Dice-K's finest efforts in a Red Sox uniform. I'd hope that, at least until next season, no one bitches and moans about him or calls him semi-racist Japanese based names or slang terms.

 

At least tonight, he lived up to his reputation as a big-game pitcher.

 

Focus your rage on JD Drew or something. Oh wait.....

 

No rage here....

 

 

This is what separates Matsuzaka from the rest of the pitchers who are paid the same as him. He has the potential to pitch like Lincecum or Lester some nights, and the ability to pitch like Wakefield other nights. Most mediocre pitchers have a ceiling of "decent", whereas his ceiling is "excellent".

 

What I--and the Red Sox, undoubtedly--hope is that he will be able to put together a great season at some point. His "successful" 2008 season is roughly the numbers I would expect from him in a good year, but the way he got there was just bizarre.

 

Overall, I think he's a superbly talented athlete who hasn't had enough time and consistency to show in the US what made him a star in Japan.

 

We have two choices: either the Japanese don't know baseball players or Matsuzaka hasn't pitched to the level that he did in Japan. I'm prett sure it is the later. From afar, I think he is actually a very talented pitcher with an above-average arsenal and if he put it together he would be poised to be one of the best pitchers in baseball. His outing tonight (9/26/2010) looked like what I expected his arsenal to produce when they signed him--namely, attacking the zone with a deceptive 93 mph FB and one of the league's sharpest sliders, while mixing between 4 seam FB and 2 seam FB and a very effective changeup. His stuff can be flithly.

 

Heading into 2011 I would put the roation like this:

 

Lester

Buchhholz

Matsuzaka

Lackey

Beckett

 

Even in that order we're looking at a potentially excellent rotation. If any of the bottom-three have a good season (for them) then the Sox will have arguablly the best rotation in the AL.

 

I'm a supporter of Matsuzaka and hope that the Sox continue to give him a good chance to be successful in the big leagues. I don't really think he's a bitch for being injured and I don't hold his lack of success completely against him. Becoming a great MLB pitcher is one of the hardest feats in sports and it has been interesting to watch him try to succeed. He had zero time in the minor leagues before entering MLB and is a product of a different system. He has shown flashes of brilliance and periods of inconsistency. Of course he's got an ego; anyone who has ever pitched understands how important it is to think that you are the most badass player on the diamond whenever you step out there. Guys like Beckett or Lackey appear to be cocky, arrogant pricks. Good. They should.

 

Matsuzaka is a fine pitcher to have as a #5 for this club. He could have a long, successful MLB career when all is said and done. The return of his FB tells me that he has a few good years left in him.

[jacksonianmarch]

Thing is, DiceK has done this ever since he came to America. He'd have a 3 game stretch where he looks completely untouchable. Then he'll face the O's and get lit up or walk the park.

 

Now everyone talks about his 2008 season as if he was amazing. Well, just look at these numbers...

 

5.0BB/9IP,1.6K/BB, 5.8IP/start. The thing that saved him was a ridiculous BAA of .211. That isnt happening again. He won 18 games, but was a 5IP pitcher who essentially left you scratching your head. His rookie season, IMO was a much better season, but he has been unable to replicate that durability or effectiveness. The biggest peripheral that sounds an alarm bell here is his K/9IP slipping for the third full season in a row.

 

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. DiceK is a 5-6IP pitcher who will have a 4.0ish BB/9IP pattern and will have days where he looks like Nolan Ryan and days where he looks like Betty White. He is a 5th starter in the AL East until he either gets injured/becomes irrelevant, or puts together a full season of durability and effectiveness.

[jacksonianmarch]

And I would bet dollars to donuts that the'd fetch a good prospect or two from a team in the NL. A change of scenery and weaker lineups could actually have him reach his potential

[a700hitter]

And I would bet dollars to donuts that the'd fetch a good prospect or two from a team in the NL. A change of scenery and weaker lineups could actually have him reach his potential

Great! We can get a minor league roster filler and Dice K can fulfill his potential in the NL. I can hardly wait for that deal.

 

I think we'll be keeping him as a back of the rotation guy, because to trade him with one-third of his contract remaining would be a huge admission by the FO after all the fanfare and the nonsense of Theo calling him Japan's National Treasure. What a stupid thing that was.