Possible Lowell suitor

[alphilip77]

Was watching BBTN on ESPN last night and they mentioned Mike Lowell as a possible replacement for Kendry Morales of the Angels. If we were to pull a trade, who from the Angels interests you? If there was any position I'd like to see addressed, it'd have to be the bullpen. What say you?

[jacksonianmarch]

The question isnt who they are geting in return off the bat, the question is how much money will the sox eat. If the answer is none, then the Angels could probably get him for a bag of balls. If the sox were to eat a bunch of salary, they could theoretically pry Bobby Wilson away, who looks to be a solid catching prospect, albeit a bit limited on the offensive side of things. And the Angels have been looking for a suitor for him or Napoli for awhile since Mathis is truly the starting catcher on that team.

[Dojji]

I could really go for Napoli. Not too many guys I'd hold back from that kinda deal. No current roster players is about it. (Kelly yes, Buchholz no)

[Dipre]

I could really go for Napoli. Not too many guys I'd hold back from that kinda deal. No current roster players is about it. (Kelly yes' date=' Buchholz no)[/quote']

 

Napoli is an awful defensive catcher. Why would you go for Napoli if you already have a s***** D catcher in V-Mart who's a better hitter?

[Dojji]

Because he's under our control beyond this year, unlike the guys we have. Back him up with Wagner or Brown if you need D.

[Dipre]

Because he's under our control beyond this year' date=' unlike the guys we have. Back him up with Wagner or Brown if you need D.[/quote']

 

Whether or not he's under control is inconsequential if he perpetuates a problem that we already have while diminishing the value that the guy we currently have brings to the club. It's better to go for what this team really needs right now, which is a serviceable relief arm.

[jacksonianmarch]

Whether or not he's under control is inconsequential if he perpetuates a problem that we already have while diminishing the value that the guy we currently have brings to the club. It's better to go for what this team really needs right now' date=' which is a serviceable relief arm.[/quote']

 

Exactly. You already have two noodle armed butchers behind the plate. Tek at least calls a good game and has the respect of his pitchers. Napoli is VMart lite. The only reason you love him Dojji, is because he murders red sox pitching.

[alphilip77]

I could really go for Napoli. Not too many guys I'd hold back from that kinda deal. No current roster players is about it. (Kelly yes' date=' Buchholz no)[/quote']

 

Why the hell would you throw one of our premier pitching prospects into this kind of deal? The Angels have no leverage as it stands.

[Dipre]

Exactly. You already have two noodle armed butchers behind the plate. Tek at least calls a good game and has the respect of his pitchers. Napoli is VMart lite. The only reason you love him Dojji' date=' is because he murders red sox pitching.[/quote']

 

He has 30-HR power if given 500+ AB's,and while he's adept at working the count, he K's like it's going out of style, and doesn't make good contact consistently (but watch out if he gets all of one) and he takes everything that is wrong with V-Mart/Varitek and multiplies it by three.

[Dipre]

Why the hell would you throw one of our premier pitching prospects into this kind of deal? The Angels have no leverage as it stands.

 

I didn't even touch the utter idiocy of the notion of giving up Casey Kelly for Mike f***ing Napoli. Wow.

[jacksonianmarch]

I didn't even touch the utter idiocy of the notion of giving up Casey Kelly for Mike f***ing Napoli. Wow.

 

Whoa, just Casey Kelly for Napoli? You might have to include Lars Anderson, Mike Rizzo, Ryan Westmoreland pre-op and Nook Laloosh to get that one done. And the Angels would have to be in a generous mood

[example1]

I could really go for Napoli. Not too many guys I'd hold back from that kinda deal. No current roster players is about it. (Kelly yes' date=' Buchholz no)[/quote']

 

Really? I mean, really? You would trade the guy who could be a good chunk of a trading piece for a Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez for Mike Napoli? Talk about blowing your load...

[Dipre]

Whoa' date=' just Casey Kelly for Napoli? You might have to include Lars Anderson, Mike Rizzo, Ryan Westmoreland pre-op and Nook Laloosh to get that one done. And the Angels would have to be in a generous mood[/quote']

 

Why not Josh Reddick for Napoli.

[Dojji]

Why the hell would you throw one of our premier pitching prospects into this kind of deal? The Angels have no leverage as it stands.

 

Would I volunteer Kelly, no. but that kind of offense from a catcher is worth something, even with average D or worse.

[Dojji]

Really? I mean' date=' really? You would trade the guy who could be a good chunk of a trading piece for a Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez for Mike Napoli? Talk about blowing your load...[/quote']

 

Way to read far too much into what I'm saying. I'd ask if you people were usually this oversensitive, but I know the answer.

[Dipre]

Would I volunteer Kelly' date=' no. but that kind of offense from a catcher is worth something, even with average D or worse.[/quote']

 

1) You're the one who worded it poorly.

 

2) Yeah, it's worth something, maybe Lowell straight up, but that would only be necessary if he actually fit with the club, because his D sucks and we already have a catcher who can hit better than him.

[a700hitter]

Really? I mean' date=' really? You would trade the guy who could be a good chunk of a trading piece for a Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez for Mike Napoli? Talk about blowing your load...[/quote']He also could have landed Halladay for the Sox. Kelly's value has gone up since last year not down. Napoli is not Halladay or Adrian Gonzalez.

[Dipre]

He also could have landed Halladay for the Sox. Kelly's value has gone up since last year not down. Napoli is not Halladay or Adrian Gonzalez.

 

Napoli is not Victor Martinez......who we already have.

[jacksonianmarch]

Napoli is not an average defender. He is a god awful defender. SO bad, that Scoscia would rather have a .200 lifetime hitter catch than put Napoli in there

[example1]

Way to read far too much into what I'm saying. I'd ask if you people were usually this oversensitive' date=' but I know the answer.[/quote']

 

Why would you bring it up then? If you meant that you would trade someone for Napoli (a reasonable stance) then why bring the Sox #1 prospect into it unless you want people to assume that's how you are valuating Kelly or Napoli.

[Dojji]

Frankly it's a no-win situation from my perspective. If I don't list a high-end prospect, everyone probably raises a hue and cry about how I'm trying to score a 20 HR catcher for junk and trash. If i do, everyone wants to crucify me for even daring to broach the subject of paying high value for one of the best power-hitting catchers in the league.

 

Napoli is not Victor Martinez......who we already have.

 

Until the end of the year. Napoli is arb-controlled.

 

He's not Victor? Sure he isn't, but I don't think you recognize just how impressive Napoli's offensive numbers are. We're talking about a catcher with a career .850 OPS who gets on base well and boasts consistent, proven elite power. Joe Mauer provides more offense per games played, but not too many others do, and Napoli's got better power than Mauer in terms of sheer ability to jack the ball, and that's not an exaggeration.

 

Extrapolate his HR totals over 130 games and he's a 30-40 HR hitting catcher some years, he hasn't had a year yet where he's hit under 20 and he's on the same pace this year. With a solid OBP to match. And you guys think you're going to score him with the corpse of Mike Lowell. Good luck with that. Even with the bad D, good luck with that.

 

I think the Angels are severely underutilizing him, bad D and all, and would be frankly AMAZED if they didn't simply solve their problems from the loss of Morales by playing Napoli at first base.

 

I'd swap V-Mart for Napoli straight up, gladly, and fully expect the Angels to demand more -- as bad as Napoli is as a defensive catcher,, he's got a better arm than Victor and he's hit more consistently than Victor -- and for FAR more power. And he's cheaper. And he's under control for another 2 years or so. Even with all the factors you guys have thrown in, if you think you're getting him for peanuts, you're screwy.

 

What did we pay for v-Mart? Two high-end pitching prospects one of which was a semi-established MLB pitcher when we moved him the other was a #1 pick. Napoli is arguably a match for V-Mart, except cheaper and under our control longer. So I don't think I'm that crazy in thinking the Angels demand more for Napoli than you seem to think they will.

 

Also, if Napoli's too bad defensively, we've got an upcoming hole at the corner infield either this year or the year after. Youks to third, Napoli to first where his bat will probably carry him. Or platoon him as a C/DH when Ortiz moves on. He's got the power to do that too.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I would ask for Brian Fuentes and use him as a lefty specialist. He is totally dominant vs. lefties sporting a .45 WHIP but hasn't been what the Angels had hoped for and the Angels have some good young arms-- as well as Rodney who could move to closer. Fuentes would be the ideal guy to go out and get. Papelbon, Bard, and DelCarmen give us a solid 7, 8, and 9 out there.. Okajima is worthless with a 1.74 WHIP and .314 OPBA. A solid lefty in the pen is really all we need. Over his career and 147.2 IP vs. lefties, Fuentes has held them to a .216 OPBA and 1.15 WHIP while striking out an amazing 185 batters in those 147.2 IP.

 

This is an absolutely perfect fit. The contracts cancel out and there is no way Fuentes will finish the 55 games needed for his $11 million option to kick in for 2011. I am not sure about the particulars should he be traded. There may be some sort of compensation... hmm.. I hope it wouldn't be the Sox having to pony up the $11 mill..no way they do that UNLESS they get a very good prospect in return. This move would give the Sox the best pen in baseball IMO.

[Dojji]

I could go for Fuentes, but I wouldn't be too quick to give up on Oki. He's bounced back before.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I could go for Fuentes' date=' but I wouldn't be too quick to give up on Oki. He's bounced back before.[/quote']

 

You could rest Oki more...let him find his stuff in side sessions while not hampering the team in the process. Right now, Oki is no help to this team. I would be surprised if Theo did not inquire about this. Lowell is just the type of guy Scioscia likes. There was talk of Rodney taking over the closer role anyhow. This would fill needs for both teams without costing anything. I would love to see Lowell get a chance to play somewhere... They could flip him to 3rd when Kendry gets back.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I could really go for Napoli. Not too many guys I'd hold back from that kinda deal. No current roster players is about it. (Kelly yes' date=' Buchholz no)[/quote']

 

Are you a Red Sox fan or Yankee fan in disguise? Giving up Casey Kelly for Napoli would be the most horrific trade of a prospect I have ever seen by the Sox. Trade a kid with a similar arsenal to Clay(but he throws harder)....for a backup catcher? I have been told I am too abrasive here...so I will stop here and just say that is one of the most asinine suggestions I have ever seen on ANY Sox board.

[a700hitter]

Are you a Red Sox fan or Yankee fan in disguise? Giving up Casey Kelly for Napoli would be the most horrific trade of a prospect I have ever seen by the Sox. Trade a kid with a similar arsenal to Clay(but he throws harder)....for a backup catcher? I have been told I am too abrasive here...so I will stop here and just say that is one of the most asinine suggestions I have ever seen on ANY Sox board.

At least Doji only made a suggestion. Sparky Lyle was already a major leaguer and a top young left handed reliever and he was traded to the arch enemy for Danny Cater. The Red Sox actually made that trade. In a couple of years we may witness a similar scenario when Rivera hangs up his spikes when Papelbon hits the FA market. The FO will convince us that Papelbon will not be worth the money as he walks to the Yankees for draft picks. At least Doji's suggestion will not happen, but really bad trades, signings and non-signings happen. No need to jump ugly all over Doji. I think he gets the point. The real tragedy is that Front offices full of highly paid professionals do manage to make some ridiculous moves. Julio Lugo is one that pops immediately to mind. Dice K is at a cross roads, but he could end up being a $100 million bust when all is said and done. Please don't tell me about how much money the Sox are making from the Japanese market. Until the Sox point to a figure on a balance sheet, I am taking the position that they have made nothing from the Japanese market.

[26 to 6]

At least Doji only made a suggestion. Sparky Lyle was already a major leaguer and a top young left handed reliever and he was traded to the arch enemy for Danny Cater. The Red Sox actually made that trade. In a couple of years we may witness a similar scenario when Rivera hangs up his spikes when Papelbon hits the FA market. The FO will convince us that Papelbon will not be worth the money as he walks to the Yankees for draft picks. At least Doji's suggestion will not happen' date=' but really bad trades, signings and non-signings happen. No need to jump ugly all over Doji. I think he gets the point. The real tragedy is that Front offices full of highly paid professionals do manage to make some ridiculous moves. Julio Lugo is one that pops immediately to mind. Dice K is at a cross roads, but he could end up being a $100 million bust when all is said and done. Please don't tell me about how much money the Sox are making from the Japanese market. Until the Sox point to a figure on a balance sheet, I am taking the position that they have made nothing from the Japanese market.[/quote']

Surely they've made something from the Japanese market. What that figure might be I can't begin to predict, but I'm sure it's something.

 

As for Papelbon..... no, thank you. If Papelbon ever signs with the Yanks I will be very, very disappointed,

[jacksonianmarch]

Are you a Red Sox fan or Yankee fan in disguise? Giving up Casey Kelly for Napoli would be the most horrific trade of a prospect I have ever seen by the Sox. Trade a kid with a similar arsenal to Clay(but he throws harder)....for a backup catcher? I have been told I am too abrasive here...so I will stop here and just say that is one of the most asinine suggestions I have ever seen on ANY Sox board.

 

Jeff Bagwell says hi

[jacksonianmarch]

Surely they've made something from the Japanese market. What that figure might be I can't begin to predict, but I'm sure it's something.

 

As for Papelbon..... no, thank you. If Papelbon ever signs with the Yanks I will be very, very disappointed,

 

Even without the splitty, he's a top 5 closer in the game. We'd be hard pressed to find someone better after Mo walks. That being said, Mo has showed no signs of let-up. What he's lost in velocity, he has gained in location and movement. Plus his 2 seamer is turning into a nice pitch

[Dipre]

 

 

Until the end of the year. Napoli is arb-controlled.

 

He's not Victor? Sure he isn't, but I don't think you recognize just how impressive Napoli's offensive numbers are. We're talking about a catcher with a career .850 OPS who gets on base well and boasts consistent, proven elite power. Joe Mauer provides more offense per games played, but not too many others do, and Napoli's got better power than Mauer in terms of sheer ability to jack the ball, and that's not an exaggeration.

 

Extrapolate his HR totals over 130 games and he's a 30-40 HR hitting catcher some years, he hasn't had a year yet where he's hit under 20 and he's on the same pace this year. With a solid OBP to match. And you guys think you're going to score him with the corpse of Mike Lowell. Good luck with that. Even with the bad D, good luck with that.

 

I think the Angels are severely underutilizing him, bad D and all, and would be frankly AMAZED if they didn't simply solve their problems from the loss of Morales by playing Napoli at first base.

 

I'd swap V-Mart for Napoli straight up, gladly, and fully expect the Angels to demand more -- as bad as Napoli is as a defensive catcher,, he's got a better arm than Victor and he's hit more consistently than Victor -- and for FAR more power. And he's cheaper. And he's under control for another 2 years or so. Even with all the factors you guys have thrown in, if you think you're getting him for peanuts, you're screwy.

 

What did we pay for v-Mart? Two high-end pitching prospects one of which was a semi-established MLB pitcher when we moved him the other was a #1 pick. Napoli is arguably a match for V-Mart, except cheaper and under our control longer. So I don't think I'm that crazy in thinking the Angels demand more for Napoli than you seem to think they will.

 

Also, if Napoli's too bad defensively, we've got an upcoming hole at the corner infield either this year or the year after. Youks to third, Napoli to first where his bat will probably carry him. Or platoon him as a C/DH when Ortiz moves on. He's got the power to do that too.

 

1) Napoli's not an elite power hitting catcher. He's also not in V-Mart's league offensively, and saying otherwise is downright ridiculous.

 

2) Napoli's awful defensively, to the point where a cacher who can barely touch a .700 OPS has him relegated to near-bench duty.

 

3) Stop over-hyping players you like and stick to facts. Napoli is what he is, an offense-first catcher with above average power. Saying the Angels would demand more than V-Mart for Napoli borders on the ridiculous.