5/23 @ Philadelphia

[VA Sox Fan]

Finally. Nice series win. Keep this momentum for the crap-ass dome in TB.

[a700hitter]

Big game. Throwing a beating on a top pitcher is a good sign for this team. Nice game by Wake.

[Wasatch]

Remember way back to April and May last year when Ramirez was actually good? Good time' date=' good times.[/quote']

 

Yup, the guy was a godsend to us, but now.....

[Dipre]

The team hit well, pitched well, and caught the ball. I think this is the team we envisioned heading into 2010.

 

Also, how about the "Sox lying down against good pitching?"

[TedWilliams101]

The millions of fans that go to the games every night do not nearly approximate the number of fans that follow nightly on Gamecast or in Florida bars. You do realize that the same 35' date='000 people don't show up for every game. Have you been in any bar, on any internet forum or any other place where there are 35,000 fans on game night? I think my statistical sample is a bit more valid. The only place where I see any continued criticism of Drew is on TalkSox-- not a statistically valid sample. my apologies ti Yeszir.[/quote']

 

And I bet if you actually asked fans at the park what they thought of Drew, a lot would say they don't like him or think he isn't worth his contract, don't care, etc. Just because they don't boo him doesn't mean they love him. Personally, the majority of the Sox fan's I know/met don't like Drew, only the few that are die hard fans and use logic like him.

[Wasatch]

Very nice series win for the REDSOX, and WAKE! I did not think we would win 2 from them, especially with the Doc pitching the last game. A few games over 500 is nice though. The DRs next, GO REDSOX!

[Dipre]

And I bet if you actually asked fans at the park what they thought of Drew' date=' a lot would say they don't like him or think he isn't worth his contract, don't care, etc. Just because they don't boo him doesn't mean they love him. Personally, the majority of the Sox fan's I know/met don't like Drew, only the few that are die hard fans and use logic like him.[/quote']

 

While at the stadium, the fans will cheer for anyone who's doing well.

[ORS]

The millions of fans that go to the games every night do not nearly approximate the number of fans that follow nightly on Gamecast or in Florida bars. You do realize that the same 35' date='000 people don't show up for every game. Have you been in any bar, on any internet forum or any other place where there are 35,000 fans on game night? I think my statistical sample is a bit more valid. The only place where I see any continued criticism of Drew is on TalkSox-- not a statistically valid sample. my apologies ti Yeszir.[/quote']

Your statistical sample is bogus. You are equating not booing with an appropriate rating of the players contribution to the team. Fans boo home team players when they suck, and Drew doesn't suck, but that doesn't mean the 35K have under or over valued him. It means they aren't booing him. That's it.

 

The opinions I get on message boards, at road games, or at bars are more relevant to the topic at hand: the fans' rating of Drew.

 

And if you think you are getting to me by poking fun at following on Gameday this year, you are reaching. Try again, Mr Weaksauce.

[example1]

Your statistical sample is bogus. You are equating not booing with an appropriate rating of the players contribution to the team. Fans boo home team players when they suck, and Drew doesn't suck, but that doesn't mean the 35K have under or over valued him. It means they aren't booing him. That's it.

 

The opinions I get on message boards, at road games, or at bars are more relevant to the topic at hand: the fans' rating of Drew.

 

And if you think you are getting to me by poking fun at following on Gameday this year, you are reaching. Try again, Mr Weaksauce.

 

For a long time the criticism of Drew was pretty harsh. It has cooled down a bit the past year or two, mostly because he's playing consistently and Theo Inc., has worked to defend him publically. Drew was the posterboy for being overpaid and spending money foolishly. I think the less astute fan (of which there are many) would still think of him as "that overpaid guy" rather than as the plus-field, plus-OBP, good baserunning versatile hitter many of us (and Theo) sees.

[VA Sox Fan]

For a long time the criticism of Drew was pretty harsh. It has cooled down a bit the past year or two' date=' mostly because he's playing consistently and Theo Inc., has worked to defend him publically. Drew was the posterboy for being overpaid and spending money foolishly. I think the less astute fan (of which there are many) would still think of him as "that overpaid guy" rather than as the plus-field, plus-OBP, good baserunning versatile hitter many of us (and Theo) sees.[/quote']

 

Did Drew "screw over" the Dodgers? I remember controversy when he left but don't remember what it was about.

[Dipre]

Did Drew "screw over" the Dodgers? I remember controversy when he left but don't remember what it was about.

 

He had an opt-out clause. He exercised it, and there were whispers that Drew had been negotiating with the Sox beforehand, and that was part of the reason why he opted out of his contract.

[a700hitter]

Your statistical sample is bogus. You are equating not booing with an appropriate rating of the players contribution to the team. Fans boo home team players when they suck, and Drew doesn't suck, but that doesn't mean the 35K have under or over valued him. It means they aren't booing him. That's it.

 

The opinions I get on message boards, at road games, or at bars are more relevant to the topic at hand: the fans' rating of Drew.

 

And if you think you are getting to me by poking fun at following on Gameday this year, you are reaching. Try again, Mr Weaksauce.

I've seen Yaz and other stars booed. There's no mistaking that for fan displeasure. I don't know how each of the fans feel about Drew, but I've almost never heard him get booed, even when he is playing like s***. Your Florida bar and internet experience is far from scientific. If Spud calls him Nancy, it doesn't mean that he doesn't appreciate that he is a great player. Let's all stop whining about poor Drew's lack of appreciation. Boston crowds roundly booed and heckled Ted Williams for years. Unless Drew reads TalkSox or frequents your Florida bars, he's probably completely unaware of this under appreciation issue. It is really such a non-issue. Continually bringing it up is just so ridiculous.

 

... and yes I was taking a shot of your powers of observation that you have on Gamecast. It's not so weaksauce if it gets in under your skin.

[Dipre]

Unless Drew reads TalkSox or frequents your Florida bars, he's probably completely unaware of this under appreciation issue. It is really such a non-issue. Continually bringing it up is just so ridiculous.

 

Then why has the Front Office (Theo specifically) gone to such great lengths to publicly defend Drew?

[YeAuldBroade]

Then why has the Front Office (Theo specifically) gone to such great lengths to publicly defend Drew?

Because otherwise he looks like he made a huge mistake.

 

The majority of people I know do not like Drew and think he's overpaid. They are professionals, highly educated and most life-long (more than 30 years) fans of the Sox. So the "not using logic" and other rude comments from the Drew fanboys are misguided and tell a great deal about the posters that use the comments. If you can't defend your position without insulting those that disagree, than you can't defend your position.

[a700hitter]

Then why has the Front Office (Theo specifically) gone to such great lengths to publicly defend Drew?

MAybe he's on TalkSox. I've always suspect that Example I was Theo. Also, I hardly characterize one interview as "great lengths". Boo hoo, poor Drew. I feel his pain. Please stop. He's a great player who some fans don't like. Some fans in St. Louis didn't like him either. Why do the hard core Drew groupies like yourself insist that he be the first player in Red Sox history to be liked by all Red Sox fans? The closest I ever saw to a Red Sox player that was universally loved by Red Sox fans was Nomar, and he had his detractors. In fact, Spudboy tried to run him down with his automobile.

[Dipre]

Because otherwise he looks like he made a huge mistake.

 

The majority of people I know do not like Drew and think he's overpaid. They are professionals, highly educated and most life-long (more than 30 years) fans of the Sox. So the "not using logic" and other rude comments from the Drew fanboys are misguided and tell a great deal about the posters that use the comments. If you can't defend your position without insulting those that disagree, than you can't defend your position.

 

Irony.

 

You just called the Drew defenders "Drew fanboys" (which is an insult) while calling the use of the term "lack of logic" (which is exactly that, in the case presented). You're calling for a cease-fire while taking an open shot.

[example1]

Because otherwise he looks like he made a huge mistake.

 

The majority of people I know do not like Drew and think he's overpaid. They are professionals, highly educated and most life-long (more than 30 years) fans of the Sox. So the "not using logic" and other rude comments from the Drew fanboys are misguided and tell a great deal about the posters that use the comments. If you can't defend your position without insulting those that disagree, than you can't defend your position.

 

Yeah, but just about every time I hear the pundits on the radio start a conversation about how valuable Drew is (or isn't), they start debating whether AVG or RBI matter and don't tend to view it as an argument that is already determined. When Theo goes on with these guys they invariably ask why he doesn't drive in more runs or hit more HRs and show that they don't know the direction that baseball has been moving over the past 10 years or so with regard to statistical analysis. That's not to say they're stupid people, just that they haven't spent all their time looking into the claims that the old ways of looking at player values has changed.

[a700hitter]

And I bet if you actually asked fans at the park what they thought of Drew' date=' a lot would say they don't like him or think he isn't worth his contract, don't care, etc. Just because they don't boo him doesn't mean they love him. Personally, the majority of the Sox fan's I know/met don't like Drew, only the few that are die hard fans and use logic like him.[/quote']The next time I am at a game I'll ask as many fans as I can and I'll report back with the results. My next game is against the Phillies, so that will probably skew the results since he still gets loudly booed in Philly.

[Dipre]

Yeah' date=' but just about every time I hear the pundits on the radio start a conversation about how valuable Drew is (or isn't), they start debating whether AVG or RBI matter and don't tend to view it as an argument that is already determined. When Theo goes on with these guys they invariably ask why he doesn't drive in more runs or hit more HRs and show that they don't know the direction that baseball has been moving over the past 10 years or so with regard to statistical analysis. That's not to say they're stupid people, just that they haven't spent all their time looking into the claims that the old ways of looking at player values has changed.[/quote']

 

Specially in the area of defense.

 

It used to be an overlooked aspect when awarding a big-money contract to a player. Now teams are much more focused on defensive ability, as well as other areas of a player's skillset besides mashing the baseball or driving runs in. Agents know this, and this is all worth money.

[Wasatch]

I've seen Drew in the last 2 years make some pretty cool diving catches in right. Last year when Ortiz was struggling he, Drew kept the REDSOX afloat. Just saying.........

[example1]

The great thing isn't so much the diving catches, but the running grabs in the gap and the consistent ability to field the hard hit line drives hit his way. He's an impressive fielder and I would say, gasp, that he is undervalued in that regard.

[Dipre]

I'd also like for someone to explain to me how signing the guy was a mistake. He's been productive on both sides of the ball during his contract.

 

Let me try this approach:

 

 

Player A:

 

Average yearly stats: .275 /.331/.473 .803 OPS

 

5-year, $90 million contract.

 

Player B:

 

Average yearly stats: .257/.332/.405 .737 OPS

 

5-year, $50 million contract.

 

Player C: .283/.391/.502 .893 OPS

 

5-year, $70 million contract.

 

 

Of those three, given production, who looks less "Overpaid"?

[a700hitter]

Yeah' date=' but just about every time I hear the pundits on the radio start a conversation about how valuable Drew is (or isn't), they start debating whether AVG or RBI matter and don't tend to view it as an argument that is already determined. When Theo goes on with these guys they invariably ask why he doesn't drive in more runs or hit more HRs and show that they don't know the direction that baseball has been moving over the past 10 years or so with regard to statistical analysis. That's not to say they're stupid people, just that they haven't spent all their time looking into the claims that the old ways of looking at player values has changed.[/quote']"Pundits on the radio" In response to Dipre, maybe this is why Theo publically defended him, because of things said by the pundits, not because the fans have expressed any hatred. They don't boo him, so why would Theo think he is hated by the fans. This debate has been and continues to be ignited by the pundits who need to get ratings and sell papers. The fans who regularly follow the team know how good this guy play, which is why he doesn't get booed. Fans in the stands don't keep their feelings to themselves. Yaz used to wear cotton in his ears to block it out. The fans like me get disappointed when he is not in the game, because it means that the team is much weaker that night. I thik that you are mistaking this talk radio and newspaper topic about Drew as a widespread under appreciation of Drew. Ask a fan if Drew is over paid, and they are likely to say yes, but that is not an evaluation of his ability. The contract issue is debatable, but it isn't an indicator that the fans don't appreciate him as a player. The Drew groupies are mixing and matching apples and oranges all over the place.

[Dipre]

"Pundits on the radio" In response to Dipre' date=' maybe this is why Theo publically defended him, because of things said by the pundits, not because the fans have expressed any hatred. They don't boo him, so why would Theo think he is hated by the fans. This debate has been and continues to be ignited by the pundits who need to get ratings and sell papers. The fans who regularly follow the team know how good this guy play, which is why he doesn't get booed. Fans in the stands don't keep their feelings to themselves. Yaz used to wear cotton in his ears to block it out. The fans like me get disappointed when he is not in the game, because it means that the team is much weaker that night. I thik that you are mistaking this talk radio and newspaper topic about Drew as a widespread under appreciation of Drew. Ask a fan if Drew is over paid, and they are likely to say yes, but that is not an evaluation of his ability. The contract issue is debatable, but it isn't an indicator that the fans don't appreciate him as a player. The Drew groupies are mixing and matching apples and oranges all over the place.[/quote']

 

YeAuldBroade disagrees with you. And pretty much so does everyone else. People geniunely dislike the guy.

[Wasatch]

Drew is a streaky batter, the guy will put up some very impressive numbers for a month, then slow down, but he still produces for quit awhile in the regular season, but then he hits the DL for awhile. I like the guy, never really got pissed off at him since he joined the REDSOX.

[a700hitter]

I'd also like for someone to explain to me how signing the guy was a mistake. He's been productive on both sides of the ball during his contract.

 

Let me try this approach:

 

 

Player A:

 

Average yearly stats: .275 /.331/.473 .803 OPS

 

5-year, $90 million contract.

 

Player B:

 

Average yearly stats: .257/.332/.405 .737 OPS

 

5-year, $50 million contract.

 

Player C: .283/.391/.502 .893 OPS

 

5-year, $70 million contract.

 

 

Of those three, given production, who looks less "Overpaid"?

Is the argument that fans don't appreciate Drew as a player or is the issue that he is over paid. Two different issues. In the first issue, you are defending Drew. In the second, you are defending the FO. Whether or not the FO has done a bad job in negotiating a contract resulting in overpayment doesn't affect my opinion about the player's ability. Coming into this season, there was a very valid argument that the FO had overpaid on the contract. I think that argument is becoming less valid. There are other players on the team who I think are overpaid, but who I like having on the team. So, what is the argument here counselor. Are you defending the FO or Drew? They are not the same issue. I like Drew, and I hate when he is not in the lineup, because he is a really good player, but I tend towards thinking that it was a bad contract for the FO. I think ARod is overpaid, but would love having him on my team. Criticism of the contract is not criticism of the player. You are confusing the two issues.

[Dipre]

Is the argument that fans don't appreciate Drew as a player or is the issue that he is over paid. Two different issues. In the first issue' date=' you are defending Drew. In the second, you are defending the FO. Whether or not the FO has done a bad job in negotiating a contract resulting in overpayment doesn't affect my opinion about the player's ability. Coming into this season, there was a very valid argument that the FO had overpaid on the contract. I think that argument is becoming less valid. There are other players on the team who I think are overpaid, but who I like having on the team. So, what is the argument here counselor. Are you defending the FO or Drew? They are not the same issue. I like Drew, and I hate when he is not in the lineup, because he is a really good player, but I tend towards thinking that it was a bad contract for the FO. I think ARod is overpaid, but would love having him on my team. Criticism of the contract is not criticism of the player. You are confusing the two issues.[/quote']

 

This is not in direct response to you, but YeAuldBroade. Should have quoted her.

 

You'll notice i said "Why has the FO come out to publicly defend him?" to which the response was, that then he would have acknowledged making a "big, big mistake", so i question why?

 

Given production, and market value for OF when Drew was signed, the contract doesn't seem like a mistake in the least.

[YeAuldBroade]

Irony.

 

You just called the Drew defenders "Drew fanboys" (which is an insult) while calling the use of the term "lack of logic" (which is exactly that, in the case presented). You're calling for a cease-fire while taking an open shot.

Who's calling for a cease fire? I'm simply stating a fact... one that seems to have been missed. Whatever Dude, I'm not getting drawn into another one of your foolish baiting sessions.

 

I don't like Nancy, most people I know that are die-hard Sox fans don't like Nancy. But we don't boo and never will because he's wearing the big B on his hat.

 

And that is that.

[a700hitter]

YeAuldBroade disagrees with you. And pretty much so does everyone else. People geniunely dislike the guy.

I don't think that a majority of even the small sample size of TalkSoxers don't like Drew as a player.

[Dipre]

Who's calling for a cease fire? I'm simply stating a fact... one that seems to have been missed. Whatever Dude, I'm not getting drawn into another one of your foolish baiting sessions.

 

I don't like Nancy, most people I know that are die-hard Sox fans don't like Nancy. But we don't boo and never will because he's wearing the big B on his hat.

 

And that is that.

 

Don't try the victim approach. There is no "baiting session". No one had called anyone any names, yet you storm in stirring the pot and calling people "Drew fanboys". You're old enough to know better.