Red Sox injury updates

[Keeper]

We whine about injuries' date=' but the Twins have been without their All Star closer Joe Nathan for the entire season and without Justin Morneau for half the season. Morneau was hitting .345 with 18 HRs. He was a human wrecking ball when he went down. The Twins were not as stacked with talent as the Sox, so it was a devastating loss. Yet, they won their division and have one less victory than the Yanks and Tampa. The FO went out and obtained two closers-- Capps and Fuentes. We obtained no one.[/quote']

 

Not really a fair comparison. Jim Thome has been a godsend. Pavano, Duensing, and Valencia came out of nowhere. Plus, Rauch was doing a good job before they even acquired Capps and Fuentes.

 

And AL East vs. AL Central. Nuff said.

[a700hitter]

Not really a fair comparison. Jim Thome has been a godsend. Pavano, Duensing, and Valencia came out of nowhere. Plus, Rauch was doing a good job before they even acquired Capps and Fuentes.

 

And AL East vs. AL Central. Nuff said.

That's right. Their FO made some very astute moves. Our FO has not.

[Yaz Sideburn]

We whine about injuries' date=' but the Twins have been without their All Star closer Joe Nathan for the entire season and without Justin Morneau for half the season. Morneau was hitting .345 with 18 HRs. He was a human wrecking ball when he went down. The Twins were not as stacked with talent as the Sox, so it was a devastating loss. Yet, they won their division and have one less victory than the Yanks and Tampa. The FO went out and obtained two closers-- Capps and Fuentes. We obtained no one.[/quote']

 

if we had lost our "all-star closer" at the beginning of the year we might be leading the wild card right now. seriously though, i would have killed to only have had 1 member of the lineup go on the dl this year

[a700hitter]

if we had lost our "all-star closer" at the beginning of the year we might be leading the wild card right now. seriously though' date=' i would have killed to only have had 1 member of the lineup go on the dl this year[/quote']They are a less talented team than Boston, and they lost someone who was arguably having the best offensive season in the league. I don't think their injuries should be minimized.

[Palodios]

Losing two major playors or losing ten. Which is going to hurt a team more?

[Yaz Sideburn]

They are a less talented team than Boston' date=' and they lost someone who was arguably having the best offensive season in the league. I don't think their injuries should be minimized.[/quote']

 

we would have been 3x better off if all we lost was one hitter and a reliever. i'm not minimizing their injuries, i'm accurately assessing them - ours were much worse

[a700hitter]

we would have been 3x better off if all we lost was one hitter and a reliever. i'm not minimizing their injuries' date=' i'm accurately assessing them - ours were much worse[/quote']Agreed, but so was our bullpen. That helped us miss the playoffs too.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Agreed' date=' but so was our bullpen. That helped us miss the playoffs too.[/quote']

 

what happened to your "no need to fix the bullpen" campaign that you were running?

[a700hitter]

what happened to your "no need to fix the bullpen" campaign that you were running?

I'm only in favor of fixing the bullpen if the FO thinks that it is the right thing to do.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I'm only in favor of fixing the bullpen if the FO thinks that it is the right thing to do.

 

good thinking. that's much easier than coming up with alternative solutions of our own that would fix our bullpen

[a700hitter]

good thinking. that's much easier than coming up with alternative solutions of our own that would fix our bullpen

I have my own ideas, but I realize that whatever the FO does is the right thing.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I have my own ideas' date=' but I realize that whatever the FO does is the right thing.[/quote']

 

that would explain why you don't come up with any alternatives to moves the front office makes

[a700hitter]

that would explain why you don't come up with any alternatives to moves the front office makes

If the FO made any moves, I'd come up with some alternatives even though they would be totally wrong.

[Yaz Sideburn]

If the FO made any moves' date=' I'd come up with some alternatives even though they would be totally wrong.[/quote']

 

that sounds like fun. why don't we start with what alternative moves you would have done to the bullpen last offseason?

[Spudboy]

I'll bite.

 

I would have kept Saito.

[a700hitter]

that sounds like fun. why don't we start with what alternative moves you would have done to the bullpen last offseason?

With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight I could come up with anything, and it would have no chance of failing.. right? That could be fun.

[Yaz Sideburn]

With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight I could come up with anything' date=' and it would have no chance of failing.. right? That could be fun.[/quote']

 

sounds like fun to me, sounds like fun to you. so jump on in

[a700hitter]

sounds like fun to me' date=' sounds like fun to you. so jump on in[/quote']I would have signed Joe Beimel and Darren Oliver as the lefties in the pen instead of Oki and Schoenweiss. Also would have signed Fernando Rodney. Hed be a good 6th inning guy for Bard when Paps is gone.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I would have signed Joe Beimel and Darren Oliver as the lefties in the pen instead of Oki and Schoenweiss. Also would have signed Fernando Rodney. Hed be a good 6th inning guy for Bard when Paps is gone.

 

so you would have paid $5+ million more for rodney for the same production that we got out of atchison?

[a700hitter]

so you would have paid $5+ million more for rodney for the same production that we got out of atchison?

Yeah, you are right. Scratch Rodney. Replace him with Capps.

[a700hitter]

Yeah' date=' you are right. Scratch Rodney. Replace him with Capps.[/quote']

Scratch Capps. They should have signed Benoit. Benoit, Bemeil and Darren Oliver. That was easy. We're in the playoffs with them.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Scratch Capps. They should have signed Benoit. Benoit' date=' Bemeil and Darren Oliver. That was easy. We're in the playoffs with them.[/quote']

 

a. in real life i doubt you would have been interested in any of those guys, save maybe bemeil

b. we still wouldn't be in the playoffs if we signed those 3 relievers

[a700hitter]

a. in real life i doubt you would have been interested in any of those guys' date=' save maybe bemeil[/quote']That's why it's ridiculous to propose alternatives after the fact, but you insisted.

b. we still wouldn't be in the playoffs if we signed those 3 relievers

We made it to the last week of the season with our garbage, so they might have put us over the top.

[Yaz Sideburn]

That's why it's ridiculous to propose alternatives after the fact, but you insisted.

We made it to the last week of the season with our garbage, so they might have put him over the top.

 

i was just having fun because up until now you had refused to propose any alternative to what the front office did. and perhaps now you appreciate the whole front office thing a little more. you had 20/20 vision and it took you 3 times to get it right

[a700hitter]

i was just having fun because up until now you had refused to propose any alternative to what the front office did. and perhaps now you appreciate the whole front office thing a little more. you had 20/20 vision and it took you 3 times to get it right

Yeah and 10 minutes.

[Yaz Sideburn]

i know this may sound crazy, but i think this front office actually does a pretty good job and they put together a bullpen which looked pretty good on paper. sometimes things just don't work out

[a700hitter]

i was just having fun because up until now you had refused to propose any alternative to what the front office did. and perhaps now you appreciate the whole front office thing a little more. you had 20/20 vision and it took you 3 times to get it right

Whether with 20-20 hindsight or looking forward, hypothesizing about who we could have gotten or who we could get is pure conjectural nonsense. We have no idea who is available or their price in money or talent. It's just guessing. However, we can evaluate a bullpen as we watch them perform. Ours sucked from April. Only two other teams in the AL had worse bullpens. Maybe they are making things harder than they really are.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Whether with 20-20 hindsight or looking forward' date=' hypothesizing about who we could have gotten or who we could get is pure conjectural nonsense. We have no idea who is available or their price in money or talent. It's just guessing. However, we can evaluate a bullpen as we watch them perform. Ours sucked from April. Only two other teams in the AL had worse bullpens. Maybe they are making things harder than they really are.[/quote']

 

our bullpen sucked this year and we need to improve on it. no one on the site has suggested anything otherwise

 

i think where we differ philosophically is that you think it reflects poorly on the front office and most of the the other posters here think that on paper the bullpen looked good going into the season but a multitude of things went wrong that the front office couldn't have predicted

[a700hitter]

i know this may sound crazy' date=' but i think this front office actually does a pretty good job and they put together a bullpen which looked pretty good on paper. sometimes things just don't work out[/quote']I agree that generally the FO does a good job. However, Theo's weak point has always been the bullpen. While the bullpen might have looked good on paper, it was obvious in April that it was not good on the field. They did nothing to build it during the season. BTW, I disagree that it looked good on paper. Any bullpen where Schoenweiss is relied upon for meaningful innings is not a good bullpen.

[a700hitter]

our bullpen sucked this year and we need to improve on it. no one on the site has suggested anything otherwise

 

i think where we differ philosophically is that you think it reflects poorly on the front office and most of the the other posters here think that on paper the bullpen looked good going into the season but a multitude of things went wrong that the front office couldn't have predicted

My philosophy is that the FO has to own its decisions. Your philosophy is that they had bad luck. Yes, we differ.