4/20 vs. Texas

[Gom]

Gom's post was 100% predictable, and equally stupid. Let's rewind:

 

The argument you made against Posada was primarily about "framing" pitches and CERA, which is what, at least for me, we disagreed with. Your gripe was never primarily about controlling the running game, and for good reason, because Posada never allowed baserunners to succeed at this rate. I agree that controlling the running game is important, because you can put a tangible run value on a stolen base through linear weights. At the rate Martinez is allowing runners to advance, it would be very difficult for him to offset that with offensive contribution.

See? Again. If you can't quantify it [not because it's not quantifiable, just that we lack the ability to do so], it is dismissed by you. I think framing pitches is the most important thing a catcher can do, but CERA is based on the running game as well, is it not? Teams don't run on a catcher with a gun. It negates the running game. You think throwing out baserunners is more important than framing, I think the other way around. It really doesn't matter, it shows up as runs in the final box score. You dismiss CERA completely, when it is, in my opinion, the most important defensive stat out there, irrespective of it's limitations.

Your prediction was that Martinez would perform similarly to Posada behind the plate, which is no great stretch of the imagination because they were similar at controlling the running game prior to this year. However, Martinez has been abysmal at controlling the running game. I agree that this makes his continued presence behind the plate untennable, however, this was never the point you made. Of course, you have no qualms about claiming credit for something you didn't do. It's the Gom thing to do.

Thanks for claiming defeat so quickly. The rest of your post is insignificant, like most of your posts.

 

Like I said, I'd be glad to wait until the halfway mark to show that even with your team's professed move to run prevention, it wasn't going to work, not because the theory itself is wrong, but because your team put the worst defensive player at the most important defensive position.

 

Posada is no gunslinger behind the plate. Runners ran on him like crazy as well last year. Like I said, debate whether which is more important, a catcher's arm or his glove. I said Martinez would cause the Red Sox ERA to go up. I did not specify how. He is so abysmal at both, it's inconsequential. Nice try though. Actually...not really.

[Chamomile]

ERA is a flawed enough stat, CERA is just useless.

[ORS]

See? Again. If you can't quantify it [not because it's not quantifiable' date= just that we lack the ability to do so], it is dismissed by you. I think framing pitches is the most important thing a catcher can do, but CERA is based on the running game as well, is it not? Teams don't run on a catcher with a gun. It negates the running game. You think throwing out baserunners is more important than framing, I think the other way around. It really doesn't matter, it shows up as runs in the final box score. You dismiss CERA completely, when it is, in my opinion, the most important defensive stat out there, irrespective of it's limitations.

 

Thanks for claiming defeat so quickly. The rest of your post is insignificant, like most of your posts.

 

Like I said, I'd be glad to wait until the halfway mark to show that even with your team's professed move to run prevention, it wasn't going to work, not because the theory itself is wrong, but because your team put the worst defensive player at the most important defensive position.

 

Posada is no gunslinger behind the plate. Runners ran on him like crazy as well last year. Like I said, debate whether which is more important, a catcher's arm or his glove. I said Martinez would cause the Red Sox ERA to go up. I did not specify how. He is so abysmal at both, it's inconsequential. Nice try though. Actually...not really.

You said he'd be like Posada. He's not, he's worse. The argument I've had with you on this subject was about someone with Posada's abilities. Stop trying to change the parameters of the debate. It's dishonest.

[Gom]

I've said that the only catcher that's worse than Posada is Martinez. I've also quoted the following:

 

7. Victor Martinez will put up great numbers at the plate, but the Red Sox ERA will suffer greatly with him, ala Posada. The grumblings should begin in the summer.

So, the Red Sox ERA will suffer like the Yankee ERA suffers with Posada. Posada costs, I don't remember, about 0.5 runs a game? So will Martinez, if not more.

 

It's not my fault you can't read.

[ORS]

I can read. I can also remember. This discussion is a recurrence of the debate we had last year about Posada, and I never responded to your attention whoring prediction thread. When you said, "[like] Posada", I took the comparison to mean similar to, and resumed the debate. If you meant something different, you should have stated it differently.

 

Posada doesn't cost anywhere near .5 runs a game. If he did, it would show up over a career.

 

Here, learn something...

 

link

 

Oh, wait, let me guess, this makes me a sheep, right? No, really, I mean it's OK for you to post the inanities from a high schooler as supporting reference, but this makes me a sheep, correct?

 

Bah-ah-ah, you twit.

[Gom]

I can read. I can also remember. This discussion is a recurrence of the debate we had last year about Posada' date=' and I never responded to your attention whoring prediction thread. When you said, "[like'] Posada", I took the comparison to mean similar to, and resumed the debate. If you meant something different, you should have stated it differently.

 

Posada doesn't cost anywhere near .5 runs a game. If he did, it would show up over a career.

 

Here, learn something...

 

link

 

Oh, wait, let me guess, this makes me a sheep, right? No, really, I mean it's OK for you to post the inanities from a high schooler as supporting reference, but this makes me a sheep, correct?

 

Bah-ah-ah, you twit.

Some points to clear up.

 

1. Who ever said anything about a career? He's regressed to the point where he is putrid behind the plate. Need to know how people regress over a career? Take a look at Ortiz, idiot. I've shown the math that he costs that much. You choose to ignore it. The world is still flat for you, isn't it?

 

2. You've quoted this article multiple times. It's the ultimate strawman. CERA is only relative, as I've said it numerous times, when comparing pitchers on the same team, or say, successive seasons with relatively the same staff. Even then it's not perfect. However, it's a tool that helps in the analysis of future events. Is it an effective stat when comparing say the catchers for the Mariners to the catchers in Washington? Of course not.

 

Moron.

 

The funny thing is that kid, in one article, showed that he understands the game better than you have in your entire life. If you had any class, you'd be ashamed.

 

Go back to sleep.

[ORS]

I didn't ignore your math. The math was simple arithmetic, kudos for surprising me with your ability to handle that. The math is based on bogus numbers. Bogus data, bogus result, bogus conclusion.

 

First time I've posted the article, and you didn't read it. Clearly this isn't about getting to the right answer for you, because you won't consider the analysis.

 

Oh, and you don't know what a strawman is....still.

[Gom]

I didn't ignore your math. The math was simple arithmetic, kudos for surprising me with your ability to handle that. The math is based on bogus numbers. Bogus data, bogus result, bogus conclusion.

 

First time I've posted the article, and you didn't read it. Clearly this isn't about getting to the right answer for you, because you won't consider the analysis.

 

Oh, and you don't know what a strawman is....still.

 

Listen...this is getting tired and old. Honestly, I'm bored with it. So I'll extend the fig leaf and say this:

 

If the Red Sox ERA is higher with Vmart than it is with Varitek AND the Red Sox ERA is higher than it was last year in comparison to league average by the half-way mark, will you admit that the catcher has a bigger effect on the game than you first thought? Keep in mind, any increase will be a huge jump due to the addition of the defensive players and Lackey. The popular belief is that it should have dropped tremendously.

 

I am ready to admit the opposite if it comes out the other way.

 

Let's get back to talking about baseball. Honestly, we have run out of ways to insult each other. You still have the ultimate one though. That Bubble Machine insult was the best ever.