Cameron or Jacoby in center field?

[Dipre]

Right' date=' but I think Gom is saying that they should have kept Lowell at third base, and not signed Beltre. I think this is a sentiment that other fans would share, although I'm not saying I agree with it.[/quote']

 

But unfortunately, given the FO's thinking, it simply wasn't going to happen that way. They set out to replace Lowell at 3B from the get-go, so that is the only plausible scenario where the Sox could've both kept Bay and gotten Lackey.

[Dojji]

Alternatively we could have had Lowell at first, Youk at third.

 

I have no reason to believe Beltre was ever Plan A. Youkilis isn't so bad at 3B that we couldn't have gone for a power-hitting 1B for a year, especially not with Lowell on the bench to retain flexibility.

[Dipre]

Alternatively we could have had Lowell at first, Youk at third.

 

I have no reason to believe Beltre was ever Plan A. Youkilis isn't so bad at 3B that we couldn't have gone for a power-hitting 1B for a year, especially not with Lowell on the bench to retain flexibility.

 

I have no reason to believe they were going to let a guy who hadn't played an inning of ML time at 1B be their regular 1B. And who's to say we can't go for a power-hitting 1B now? It doesn't make sense.

[Gom]

Since I am not in tune with the Red Sox like you guys are...for this season, what do you do if you get AGon?

 

Who plays third, who plays first, who DHs?

[Dipre]

Since I am not in tune with the Red Sox like you guys are...for this season, what do you do if you get AGon?

 

Who plays third, who plays first, who DHs?

 

For the Sox to get A-Gon, they'd have to cut Ortiz first. So they'd probably rotate Gonzo, Beltre and Youkilis around the infield kinda like they did with V-Mart, Youk and Lowell last year.

[Gom]

You're not rotating AGon, IMO.

[Dipre]

You're not rotating AGon' date=' IMO.[/quote']

 

I think they could. It all depends on the player's willingness to adjust to a given role. And it'd just be for half a season anyway.

[Gom]

I think they could. It all depends on the player's willingness to adjust to a given role. And it'd just be for half a season anyway.

 

Where would you put him? He can't play 3rd. He's also your best 1B defensively. So why would he play anything but 1st.

 

To tell you the truth, the way to solve this problem is to trade Vmart for prospects, to help offset the prospect cost for AGon. I don't know who the Mets have, but he'd be ideal for them. You're not trading him to an AL playoff team. The Phillies don't want him, not the Cardinals or the Giants. No for the Cubs as well, or the Dodgers.

 

Maybe the Mets, Braves, or Colorado.

[Dipre]

Where would you put him? He can't play 3rd. He's also your best 1B defensively. So why would he play anything but 1st.

 

To tell you the truth, the way to solve this problem is to trade Vmart for prospects, to help offset the prospect cost for AGon. I don't know who the Mets have, but he'd be ideal for them. You're not trading him to an AL playoff team. The Phillies don't want him, not the Cardinals or the Giants. No for the Cubs as well, or the Dodgers.

 

Maybe the Mets, Braves, or Colorado.

 

And what exactly tells you he's a better Glove than Youk at 1st?

[yankees228]

But unfortunately' date=' given the FO's thinking, it simply wasn't going to happen that way. They set out to replace Lowell at 3B from the get-go, so that is the only plausible scenario where the Sox could've both kept Bay and gotten Lackey.[/quote']

 

I understand, but the discussion is what the front office could have done, and whether or not they made the right decision. I'm not saying I agree, and it's certainly too early to tell, but people can claim that they should have done what I had posted. It was a route they could have taken.

[Dipre]

I understand' date=' but the discussion is what the front office could have done, and whether or not they made the right decision. I'm not saying I agree, and it's certainly too early to tell, but people can claim that they should have done what I had posted. It was a route they could have taken.[/quote']

 

Well, from my perspective as soon as last year ended, the FO was dead-set on replacing Lowell at 3B. They could've kept him there, but i simply don't think (emphasis on think) they had any intention to.

[yankees228]

Well' date=' from my perspective as soon as last year ended, the FO was dead-set on replacing Lowell at 3B. They could've kept him there, but i simply don't think (emphasis on think) they had any intention to.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I don't disagree. All I'm saying is that people can claim that they shouldn't have felt this way, and that they should have went in a different direction.

 

Either way, it's so early. Look, I don't love the moves the Red Sox made either, but we're twelve games into the season. It doesn't look good now, but let's give it time. I wouldn't jump on anyone for being concerned, but the Red Sox are a good team. At some point they'll turn it around, and I'm not saying it'll be enough to make the playoffs, because it might not be, but they're at least a ninety win team in my opinion.

[TheMino007]

Wouldn't A-Gon DH? Ortiz will be gone, Youk will be at first, and Beltre at 3rd. When V-Mart DH's, put A-Gon at 1st and Youk at 3rd. You can't rotate a guy like Gonazalez who hit 40 HR last year

[Dipre]

Wouldn't A-Gon DH? Ortiz will be gone' date=' Youk will be at first, and Beltre at 3rd. When V-Mart DH's, put A-Gon at 1st and Youk at 3rd. [b']You can't rotate a guy like Gonazalez who hit 40 HR last year[/b]

 

You just mentioned a scenario in which you'd rotate Gonzales. I didn't mean rotate him in and out of the lineup, but between 1B and the DH spot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Or you could install him as the full time 1b and move Youks to 3b.

[a700hitter]

This team is very poorly constructed other than strong starting pitching. There is no team speed outside of one guy. When Ortiz, VMart and Lowell are in the lineup, they have the speed of an over 40 softball team. Their team defense is average at best. The pathetic catching situation and the regular E-6 from Scutaro offset the rest of the defense. We have no scary big boppers in the middle of the lineup that will make the other guys better resulting in big run production. The bullpen is average, at best, with only 3 reliable arms. This goes a long way toward negating the strength of the starting pitching.

 

If these short tenured guys like Beltre and Cameron are supposed to be a bridge to the future, would someone fill me in on the studs who are expected to arrive here in 2012.

[jacksonianmarch]

by 2012? You're looking at 2 first basemen in Anderson and Rizzo, and you're looking at Casey Kelly. By 2013, you might have a better idea

[jacksonianmarch]

This team is very poorly constructed other than strong starting pitching. There is no team speed outside of one guy. When Ortiz, VMart and Lowell are in the lineup, they have the speed of an over 40 softball team. Their team defense is average at best. The pathetic catching situation and the regular E-6 from Scutaro offset the rest of the defense. We have no scary big boppers in the middle of the lineup that will make the other guys better resulting in big run production. The bullpen is average, at best, with only 3 reliable arms. This goes a long way toward negating the strength of the starting pitching.

 

If these short tenured guys like Beltre and Cameron are supposed to be a bridge to the future, would someone fill me in on the studs who are expected to arrive here in 2012.

 

I agree with a lot of your post a700. I know a poster on here commented on the pitching and defense moves in 2004 to win a championship, but the lineup was deadly too. You had Ortiz and Manny hitting at elite levels and a lineup without holes, which allowed the sox to move Nomar for OCab and Mientkiewicz.

 

The sox lineup was built as a funnel. You get a bunch of guys on base and funnel them to the middle of the order where Manny and Ortiz would bring them home. Now, with Manny gone and Ortiz a shell of himself, you need to replace those guys. Bay and Youks did a pretty good job of that last yr. But with Bay gone, you now have a middle of the order with one scary hitter, one good hitter, and one past his prime hitter. That isnt good enough, especially since you have a 6-9 that isnt very good either.

 

The defense argument, I brought up earlier in the offseason. How do you build a team for pitching and defense when your catcher is one of the worst in the game and you have an average at best SS? You build a defense up the middle and if 2 of the 4 players up the middle are average to well below average, then you wont have an elite defense.

 

As for the pitching, things will turn around when Lester starts putting up his customary 7IP 2ER performances and Beckett gets more consistent, but I also agree on the middle relief. You have a closer whose effectiveness has been waning since 2007 and a middle relief corps that has been mediocre at best since the ASB last yr. Subtract from that team Wagner and Saito and add in Schoeneweis and Atchison and you see the problem.

 

Overall, a700, I do think this is Theo's worst job since coming to Boston. But, with the starting pitching, they should win 90 games or so. But, this team really isnt deep enough to win in the playoffs, IMO. They may pitch well, but they wont hit well enough against good pitching

[Dipre]

In April 19th, we seem to already have an accurate assesment of how this team is going to perform the rest of the year as well as if any acquisitions that will be made for the 90% remaining on the season. Good to know its Theos worst job even though its not even May.

[rhet]

In April 19th' date=' we seem to already have an accurate assesment of how this team is going to perform the rest of the year as well as if any acquisitions that will be made for the 90% remaining on the season. Good to know its Theos worst job even though its not even May.[/quote']

 

In your view, is it possible that Theo has mismanaged this roster?

And if the answer is yes, what date would you say is reasonable to draw that conclusion?

[a700hitter]

When I see that our 4th OFer is a discard fro mthe marlins and that our second lefty in the pen is Met reject, Scott Schoenweiss, I have serious concerns about the team. Those guys should not be showing up on the Red Sox opening day roster.

[Dipre]

In your view, is it possible that Theo has mismanaged this roster?

And if the answer is yes, what date would you say is reasonable to draw that conclusion?

 

Ill have an answer to that question at some point later than April 19th.

[rhet]

Ill have an answer to that question at some point later than April 19th.

 

 

I knew you would dodge it.

[Dipre]

I knew you would dodge it.

 

Dodge it?

 

Im not dodging anything. I simply cant make a worthwhile assesment on this roster in the middle of April. If you keep this up, youre gonna need to have surgery on those knees. Its a good team thats massively underperforming. If you think otherwise youre either an idiot or a knee-jerk.

[rhet]

Dodge it?

 

Im not dodging anything. I simply cant make a worthwhile assesment on this roster in the middle of April. If you keep this up, youre gonna need to have surgery on those knees.

 

I didn't ask you to make an assessment on the roster.

 

Go back and read the two questions I asked you.

[Dipre]

I didn't ask you to make an assessment on the roster.

 

Go back and read the two questions I asked you.

 

So you think its possible to come to a conclusion on roster construction in the middle of April?

 

I alredy responded question number two, but question number 1 is a loaded question. Calm the f*** down, its April.

[rhet]

So you think its possible to come to a conclusion on roster construction in the middle of April?

 

I alredy responded question number two, but question number 1 is a loaded question. Calm the f*** down, its April.

 

Two very simple questions, met with a complete dodge by Counselor Dipre.

 

"In your view, is it possible that Theo has mismanaged this roster?

And if the answer is yes, what date would you say is reasonable to draw that conclusion?"

 

Why am I not surprised?

[a700hitter]

Two very simple questions, met with a complete dodge by Counselor Dipre.

 

"In your view, is it possible that Theo has mismanaged this roster?

And if the answer is yes, what date would you say is reasonable to draw that conclusion?"

 

Why am I not surprised?

By the Trading Dealine it should be completely obvious one way or the other.

[riverside sluggers]

Mods change the title to offseason thread part 2, if you could

[jacksonianmarch]

Dipre, I have already said that the sox should win 90 games, which would automatically make the assumption that this small sample size is just that.

 

I just find it odd that a focus on pitching and defense would entail having one of the worst catchers in the bigs and an average to below average SS. You build defense up the middle, and as nice as it seems to have a good defensive 3b and 1b, it doesnt matter as much as having a good catcher or SS.

 

Also, this lineup will eventually hit, unless these slumps are a sign of aging for guys like Papi and Drew. Something I doubt. BUT, you take a team that was filled with high OBP guys and 2 bashers in the middle, to a team with less high OBP guys and one basher in the middle, you have to be wary. Some teams can get by when 4-5 players are slumping. The sox cannot. They have now lost their margin for error on offense. Meaning that a slump, or a bad yr by a player would take them from above average to below average offensively. The sox from 2004-2008 were so good that only two guys were irreplaceable and anyone else would take them from elite to good. That is no longer the case.

 

Regardless, I think this is one of Theo's transition years, and he sold it to the masses as "pitching and defense." My guess is that he plans on having the big 3 plus Youkilis, Pedroia and offensive juggernaut FA X take this team into the future. The problem was, he didnt like what was out there this past offseason.