Comparing Red Sox and Yankees lineups.

[yankees228]

You continue to change your argument. The point we were debating was Burnett's health. As for how effective he will be, sure, no one is claiming he's going to have great years, but with his stuff an ERA around 4, or a little bit above it is certainly reasonable.

 

As for Pettitte, you have absolutely no idea what kind of condition his elbow is in. All we know is that he has been very durable for the past five years, and that he is getting older. That's far from an automatic recipe for an injury plagued season.

[jacksonianmarch]

Or it could simply mean that as he moves into his mid 30's he doesn't have his old zip. Like, oh say, every power pitcher in the history of ever.

 

i remember you guys making the same argument about Kyle Farnsworth. I wasn't sold then, I'm not sold now.

 

So it is just dumb luck that finally, in his early 30s, AJ Burnett found the ability to have consecutive durable seasons? It doesnt have anything to do with a mechanical change or a change in approach? Cmon Dojji.

 

I don't think I am being unreasonable here. The Yankees rotation looks to be more durable for 2010. The sox have the higher ceiling. It is all going to come down to how durable the sox rotation ends up being in 2010.

[yankees228]

Or it could simply mean that as he moves into his mid 30's he doesn't have his old zip. Like, oh say, every power pitcher in the history of ever.

 

i remember you guys making the same argument about Kyle Farnsworth. I wasn't sold then, I'm not sold now.

 

Except that Burnett has talked many times about exactly what Jacko is saying. Sure, you don't have to believe him, but it certainly is logical and the results back it up.

[Dipre]

Without the health argument, because of the quality of the top three pitchers in the Red Sox rotation and the advantage of defense, you can conclude that the Sox rotation will be slightly more effective than the Yankee rotation. It's not as big a difference as the offense, but it's there.

[jacksonianmarch]

Without the health argument' date=' because of the quality of the top three pitchers in the Red Sox rotation and the advantage of defense, you can conclude that the Sox rotation will be slightly more effective than the Yankee rotation. It's not as big a difference as the offense, but it's there.[/quote']

 

Agreed, if healthy, the sox rotation has a greater potential for dominance

[silky kitten]

C - Vmart

1st - Tex

2nd - Cano

3rd - A-Roid

SS - Jeter

LF - Ellsbury

CF - Cameron

RF - Swisher

DH - Ortiz

 

Swisher over Drew?

[Gom]

If you are comparing offense production only, there is very little doubt of the following. Anyone who debates this part is lost.

 

C- Mart

1B- Tex

2B- Cano

SS- Jeter

3B- Arod

LF- Jacoby

CF- Granderson

RF- Drew

 

The above is as clear as day.

 

DH is the only one that is not clear-cut. I like Nick Johnson, but Ortiz could easily take it.

[TedWilliams101]

If you are comparing offense production only, there is very little doubt of the following. Anyone who debates this part is lost.

 

C- Mart

1B- Tex

2B- Cano

SS- Jeter

3B- Arod

LF- Jacoby

CF- Granderson

RF- Drew

 

The above is as clear as day.

 

DH is the only one that is not clear-cut. I like Nick Johnson, but Ortiz could easily take it.

 

I agree with this all but I think Cano and Pedroia is close. If Cano has another year like last year than yeah, it's a no brainer, but looking at their career lines so far, they are extremely close. I'd probably give a slight edge to Pedroia because he has been pretty good in RISP situations where as Cano has been awful. His 25 jacks last year may very well have been inflated due to playing in Coors east.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you are comparing offense production only, there is very little doubt of the following. Anyone who debates this part is lost.

 

C- Mart

1B- Tex

2B- Cano

SS- Jeter

3B- Arod

LF- Jacoby

CF- Granderson

RF- Drew

 

The above is as clear as day.

 

DH is the only one that is not clear-cut. I like Nick Johnson, but Ortiz could easily take it.

 

Posada has outplayed VMart over his career and has outplayed him 4 yrs running. Why is this missed so much and why is Posada so quickly overlooked?

[BoSox21]

Posada has outplayed VMart over his career and has outplayed him 4 yrs running. Why is this missed so much and why is Posada so quickly overlooked?

 

Cause he can't catch pitches.

[jacksonianmarch]

he said offensively speaking.

[Dojji]

But if you evaluate based on position played rather than spot in a prototypical lineup, defense comes into play, and as poor as Martinez can be in that area he's better than Posada. Same goes for a comparison between Pedroia and Cano.

[BoSox21]

I said that just to kinda bust on Jacko a bit but if you wanna turn it into a legitimate debate....well then have at it, hoss

[Dipre]

Father time catches up with Red Sox players but not Yankee players.

[Keeper]

V-Mart and Posada both had defensive lapses last night. Posada's passed ball was costly, as was V-Mart's ill-advised and inaccurate throw on the double steal. Hard to give an edge to either one of them defensively, as they're both just mediocre.

[Dipre]

The real debate is on offense.

[Gom]

I agree with this all but I think Cano and Pedroia is close. If Cano has another year like last year than yeah' date=' it's a no brainer, but looking at their career lines so far, they are extremely close. I'd probably give a slight edge to Pedroia because he has been pretty good in RISP situations where as Cano has been awful. His 25 jacks last year may very well have been inflated due to playing in [b']Coors east[/b].

 

Oh...and Pedroia isn't helped by the Green Monster?

 

Pedroia career home OPS: .900

Pedroia career road OPS: .756

 

Anyone who gives the edge to Pedroia over Cano offensively is confused.

 

There is little doubt that over his career, Posada is better..but as of now, VMart is the better offensive player.

 

Like I said, there is no debate about the 8 positions. The only question mark is DH. Ortiz is the bigger name, but Nick Johnson might be better. That one I'm not sure of.

[Keeper]

I wouldn't say it's so cut and dry between Pedroia and Cano. They both hit for a high average. Cano has a little more power. However, Pedroia gets on base a lot more and can swipe 20 bags. Pedroia is the more refined and complete player, offensively and defensively.

[Gom]

I wouldn't say it's so cut and dry between Pedroia and Cano. They both hit for a high average. Cano has a little more power. However' date=' Pedroia gets on base a lot more and can swipe 20 bags. Pedroia is the more refined and complete player, offensively and defensively.[/quote']

 

Like I said...confusion. This isn't homerism, this is fact. One is better than the other. There is no comparison offensively.

[Keeper]

Player A: .308/.370/.457 for an OPS of .827, 47 SBs (11 CS) through 3 full seasons

Player B: .307/.339/.480 for an OPS of .819, 17 SBs (21 CS) through 5 full seasons

 

No comparison... whatever.

[Gom]

Player A: .308/.370/.457 for an OPS of .827, 47 SBs (11 CS) through 3 full seasons

Player B: .307/.339/.480 for an OPS of .819, 17 SBs (21 CS) through 5 full seasons

 

No comparison... whatever.

 

If we were comparing careers, the Posada would be better than Vmart. You could make the argument that Cameron is better than Granderson as well. However, we are talking about NOW. Right now, Cano is the better offensive player, hands down.

[TedWilliams101]

Oh...and Pedroia isn't helped by the Green Monster?

 

Pedroia career home OPS: .900

Pedroia career road OPS: .756

 

Anyone who gives the edge to Pedroia over Cano offensively is confused.

 

There is little doubt that over his career, Posada is better..but as of now, VMart is the better offensive player.

 

Like I said, there is no debate about the 8 positions. The only question mark is DH. Ortiz is the bigger name, but Nick Johnson might be better. That one I'm not sure of.

 

Career with RISP -

Pedroia:0.293 BA, 0.373 OBP, 0.419 SLG, 0.791 OPS

Cano: 0.255 BA, 0.291 OBP, 0.397 SLG, 0.688 OPS

 

Fact is, Cano is a middle/bottom order bat and he has been AWFUL in RBI situations. I'd say it's at worst a push.

[Keeper]

However' date=' we are talking about [b']NOW[/b]. Right now, Cano is the better offensive player, hands down.

 

The stats don't back you up.

[TedWilliams101]

If we were comparing careers' date=' the Posada would be better than Vmart. You could make the argument that Cameron is better than Granderson as well. However, we are talking about [b']NOW[/b]. Right now, Cano is the better offensive player, hands down.

 

I already posted career numbers with RISP, but if you really only want to talk about recent performance, here are the 2009 season numbers:

 

2009 RISP:

Cano: 0.207 BA, 0.242 OBP, 0.332 SLG, 0.574 OPS in 198 PA

Pedroia:0.327 BA, 0.418 OBP, 0.440 SLG, 0.858 OPS in 185 PA

 

Cano is the 5 hitter and he gives them no production when it counts. Pedroia is the #2 hitter and does his job perfectly, but unlike Cano, he actually produces when it matters most. Thus, I take Pedroia over Cano.

[Gom]

I already posted career numbers with RISP, but if you really only want to talk about recent performance, here are the 2009 season numbers:

 

Cano: 0.207 BA, 0.242 OBP, 0.332 SLG, 0.574 OPS in 198 PA

Pedroia:0.327 BA, 0.418 OBP, 0.440 SLG, 0.858 OPS in 185 PA

 

Cano is the 5 hitter and he gives them no production when it counts. Pedroia is the #2 hitter and does his job perfectly, but unlike Cano, he actually produces when it matters most.

 

You are actually debating last year's body of offensive work for Cano and Pedroia? Seriously? Really? Ok...your prerogative, I guess....

The stats don't back you up.

Batting - Park Adjusted Runs Above Average based on wOBA for 2009:

 

Cano: 23.9

Pedroia: 15.7

 

Right....

[RWTP24]

Pedroia= MVP!

 

Enough said.

[Gom]

Pedroia= MVP!

 

Enough said.

 

Go back to sleep.