Third base: Premium defensive position or not?

[Dojji]

Statement: Third base is a position that requires a great deal of defensive skill, more so than any position but catcher, second and short, and as such, having a strong defender there is as important as having strong offense from the third base position.

 

In real terms, what this means is that while whar you really want is obviously an Evan Longoria who's great on both sides of the game, an elite, highly athletic defender with only moderate-to-good offensive gifts, such as Adrian Beltre or Chone Figgins, can be considered every bit as successful a third baseman as more footslow, unathletic power hitters as Pablo Sandoval or Aramis Ramirez.

 

Agree or disagree?

[bsox0407]

It really matters what you have in the rest of your lineup. If you have a full power lineup and Chone Figgins will help. But if you have a team that lacks power then you need a power hitter less defense.

 

Beltre can hit for some power. He plays great defense. He can save runs with his defense.

 

WHy not just get a player who could do both. Lowell a few years back was a really good defensive player and a really good hitter.

[example1]

I disagree with the premise of the poll. Defense is important at 3B, but most 3B at the MLB level make most of the plays. You can't stick a slugging 1B who can't field over there without disasterous results.

 

At the same time, the average defensive abilities of mlb-caliber 3B is high enough that teams can rightly want a good hitting 3B who can field well. It isn't the same as C, SS, 2B or, I would argue, CF.

[Dipre]

Positional offensive standards should also take into account the lineup construction of the team that the player belongs to. Chone Figgins, for all intents and purposes, is an excellent third baseman for the Mariners considering the position he'll hit in for that lineup.

[Dojji]

I disagree with the premise of the poll. Defense is important at 3B, but most 3B at the MLB level make most of the plays. You can't stick a slugging 1B who can't field over there without disasterous results.

 

At the same time, the average defensive abilities of mlb-caliber 3B is high enough that teams can rightly want a good hitting 3B who can field well. It isn't the same as C, SS, 2B or, I would argue, CF.

 

sounds to me then like you agree with option #2. Or am I misinterpreting your position?

[Dojji]

Positional offensive standards should also take into account the lineup construction of the team that the player belongs to. Chone Figgins' date=' for all intents and purposes, is an excellent third baseman for the Mariners considering the position he'll hit in for that lineup.[/quote']

 

It could go either way. It depends on how much doubles power and OBP they can muster. With two speedy guys with strong on base ability ahead of the middle of the order, line drives and not making outs need to be the focus of the 3-4-5 guys in order for that lineup to work.

[Dipre]

It could go either way. It depends on how much doubles power and OBP they can muster. With two speedy guys with strong on base ability ahead of the middle of the order' date=' line drives and not making outs need to be the focus of the 3-4-5 guys in order for that lineup to work.[/quote']

 

With Ichiro Suzuki and Chone Figgins at the top of the order, any tandem of non-auto outs for 3-4-5 is going to be able to drive runs in.

 

Bradley's a great #3, and Lopez has power and sprays line drives, but that park is a nightmare for him. The real question for that Seattle lineup is how much they're going to get from Griffey Jr.

 

Figgins fits what Seattle is trying to do.

[Dojji]

Can't exactly pretend he's Evan Longoria though.

[Dipre]

Can't exactly pretend he's Evan Longoria though.

 

Again, it's about lineup position.

 

You need a lead-off hitter and a #2 hitter in every lineup. For the basis of lineup construction, the position they play is not of consequence.

 

Positional standards must be looked at depending on the roster construction of the team in question.

[Dojji]

Alright, agreed. Figgins wasn't the best example, but I wanted someone out there besides Beltre to head off the obvious argument.

[Dipre]

Alright' date=' agreed. Figgins wasn't the best example, but I wanted someone out there besides Beltre to head off the obvious argument.[/quote']

 

Well there's also Pedro Feliz. The Phillies signed him because they liked his D at 3B to highlight a defensively spectacular left side of the infield, then proceeded to win the 2008 WS with him manning third, and reach the 2009 WS with him manning third.

 

His line for '08 and '09?

 

259/.306/.393 .699 OPS 81 OPS+.

[Dojji]

I'd forgotten about him. I could drag Joe Crede into it as well if I wasn't afraid that if I touched him he'd get hurt again

[Dipre]

I'd forgotten about him. I could drag Joe Crede into it as well if I wasn't afraid that if I touched him he'd get hurt again

 

I was about to mention him from the 2005 Sox (The White Version). He's basically Adrian Beltre twice as fragile.

 

Aces on the bolded part.

[jacksonianmarch]

Depends on the lineup. But, if taken in a vacuum, I would take the average to below average defensive 3b who can hit over the gold glove 3b who cannot any day of the week.

[italstallianion]

It really matters what you have in the rest of your lineup. If you have a full power lineup and Chone Figgins will help. But if you have a team that lacks power then you need a power hitter less defense.

 

Beltre can hit for some power. He plays great defense. He can save runs with his defense.

 

WHy not just get a player who could do both. Lowell a few years back was a really good defensive player and a really good hitter.

 

 

Exactly, while it's more conventional to have black holes at the SS, 2B, or C positions, if you have better players at those positions then it's acceptable to have a black hole at 3B. In other words, it's better to look at black holes relative to the lineup itself rather than looking at black holes relative to the positions that they play. 3B is usually seen as a power bat position, but if you have no other blackholes and a good fielding 3B, then the 3B can hit like a blindfolded Julio Lugo and the team should be fine, depending on their pitching, fielding, coaching etc.

 

Also, I am aware that a blindfolded Julio Lugo might indeed hit better than a regular Julio Lugo, but for the purposes of the analogy let's assume that it'd somehow make him worse.