A Load Of Bull(pen)

[Dojji]

the first 5 spots in the bullpen are pretty set. Paps is the closer, followed by Bard, Oki, RR, and MDC in any order you prefer. I'd say on the whole, that group's gonna be solid no matter what happens with the other two spots, which are probably going to be mostly inning eaters rather than guys who you'd send out there to dominate in a close game. Delcarmen was rough second half of last year, but that was possibly something you could just blame on injury and let go, and I don't think Oki's age is going to start showing just yet. We might have the best bullpen in the division, but even if we don't ours should be an asset rather than a liability.

 

How do you guys think the team's going to address the last two bullpen spots? We gonna let Bowden and Tazawa compete for them, do you see more signings, or are we going to sort it out among Bonser, the other RR, and a few members of the scrub brigade get a look?

 

Also, any dark horses you think have a chance to impress us?

[Imperial59]

I think most people see Wakefield as the long man and I'd have Dustin Richardson as the lefty reliever out of the pen. If Wakefield ends up in the rotation for whatever reason, we could have Bonser as the long man. He's supposedly been throwing well.

[Spudboy]

From what I've read, Bonser was looking very good at the end of the season. I think he my be a dark horse.

 

Also, I think MDC returns to being a very good set-up guy.

[Imperial59]

From what I've read, Bonser was looking very good at the end of the season. I think he my be a dark horse.

 

Also, I think MDC returns to being a very good set-up guy.

 

Yeah, Extra Bases said something about him not being a lock for the bullpen because the team's pissed that he hid an injury last year. But he was a good set up guy in 2008 and he was an even better set up guy the first half of 2009 before he got hurt.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I think Bonser has a really good shot of making the team.

 

It's tough to say who will emerge from ST as the 7th guy in the pen. They have so many options after all of the acquisitions they have made. Wake could be the long man/spot starter if he doesn't start the season out in rotation or on the DL.

 

I don't think Tazawa or Bowden will be considered for a bullpen role to start the season.

[Palodios]

Delcarmen will be back in the bullpen. The other options do not make more sense, no matter how angry they are with him. One of the two spots will indefinitely go to one of the 6 starting pitchers for spot starts and long relief. It sounds like they're putting a big pile of relief pitchers into spring training and seeing who looks the best, maybe thats boof, maybe richardson, maybe nelson.

[Dojji]

I'd enjoy the humor of the last man standing being Ramon A. Ramirez.

[riverside sluggers]

As much as he is against it, Wakefield will be in the bullpen as the long reliever/spot starter (barring an injury/trade). The front office would be hit so hard with criticism if Clay started the year in Pawtucket

 

Tim Wakefield

Dustin Richardson or Boof Bonser

Manny Delcarmen

Ramon Ramirez

Daniel Bard

Hideki Okajima

Jonathan Papelbon

[Dipre]

Bonser and Brian Shouse.

[Spudboy]

Bonser and Brian Shouse.

 

Yup.

 

Most likely.

[Mr Crunchy]

I dont see Tazawa as a capable MLB pitcher, Wakefield made the allstar team last year after a solid 1st half, if hes not hurt I think hes still an asset as a starter and more of a liability in the bullpen unless its after DiceK throws 110 pitches in 3ip. You can pencil in what Wakefields going to do pretty much his entire career but all this is idle speculation that depends on his health, the guy isnt a youngster

[Dojji]

I dont see Tazawa as a capable MLB pitcher' date='[/quote']

 

Based on what? His first professional season?

 

Couple bad starts at the big league level this early in the guy's career prove absolutely nothing.

[Plumpamania]

Tazawa is still extremely young and could be a capable #4 in the future.

[Mr Crunchy]

Based on what? His first professional season?

 

Couple bad starts at the big league level this early in the guy's career prove absolutely nothing.

 

Based on the fact that he was supposed to throw 97 and he doesnt, hasnt played in the big boy league in Japan and the way he pitched last year in Boston...In that Yankee game he won I saw more meatballs served in those 4.5 hours than are served at Mama Leone's on Salem Street in a week.

I think we got a lot more Kei Igawa/Tomo Ohka/Robinson""Cy"" Checo, Sang Song's than we do Dice K's.

The fact that he went straight from the amateurs to the majors doesnt make him good, it makes him money. The way the US is spending on sucky Japanese pitching these days makes me suspicious that Theo only paid him 6?M/3yrs...

 

I understand that he's young but will he accept playing in Rhode Island for a couple years when he wouldnt accept playing in Japans big leagues? These kids get emotional and we have had a lot more busts than success stories since the Asian kids started coming here 18-20 years ago.

[VA Sox Fan]

I dont see Tazawa as a capable MLB pitcher' date=' [b']Wakefield made the allstar team last year after a solid 1st half, if hes not hurt I think hes still an asset as a starter and more of a liability in the bullpen unless its after DiceK throws 110 pitches in 3ip. [/b]You can pencil in what Wakefields going to do pretty much his entire career but all this is idle speculation that depends on his health, the guy isnt a youngster

 

Agree Seany!

[Mr Crunchy]

Im afraid to hit refresh or I may get bumped out of here for the day, my IT dept spends more time keeping us out of these forums than it does doing anything else God bless them, i get time between 8-9 in the mornings and at 445pm but in between is usually dark.

Is Tazawa capable of being a 4man in MLB? Ya, of course,see some of these douchebags out there?

I got a young arm too but in the overly competetive AL East Im not sure this guy has the tools over a 3yr stint to make it here successfully while Wakefield has thrown pretty much the same #s in year in and out....Tazawa would have to beat out Wake, Bowden and some other guys who have been signed to minor league deals in order to make it out of the gate. I suspect we shall see him again once a big inning guy goes on the shelf for a few weeks but I dont think hes got a shot to start the season in Boston. This is year 2 of a 3 year deal, if not this year then hes got 1 more shot and with the staff of young arms we got I simply dont see this guy ever making it, at least not in Boston.

I dont wish him ill will, hopefully he can be effective enuff in RI to become trading material to a West Coast club...I havent seen anything out of him that indicates he'll be here long but he did give us 1 amazing Saturday afternoon that I wont soon forget.

[Dojji]

Based on the fact that he was supposed to throw 97 and he doesnt' date='[/quote']

 

Tazawa was never supposed to throw 97. You are entirely wrong.

 

hasnt played in the big boy league in Japan

 

The heck does that have to do with anything? We acquired him as a prospect, not as a finished product.

 

and the way he pitched last year in Boston...

 

Over 25 innings. Wee.

 

In that Yankee game he won I saw more meatballs served in those 4.5 hours than are served at Mama Leone's on Salem Street in a week.

 

Oooh, you mean you're one of those people who Watch The Games, rather than say Check The Numbers, Read The Scouting Reports, or Know what The **** You're Talking About.

I think we got a lot more Kei Igawa/Tomo Ohka/Robinson""Cy"" Checo, Sang Song's than we do Dice K's.

 

OK. You're dead wrong. But OK.

 

The fact that he went straight from the amateurs to the majors doesnt make him good,

 

1: He didn't. He spent a significant portion of the season with the Portland Seadogs.

2: It doesn't make him bad, either. Especially based on only a 25 game sample.

 

The way the US is spending on sucky Japanese pitching these days makes me suspicious that Theo only paid him 6?M/3yrs...

 

That's good money considering that, again, Tazawa is a prospect and NOT a finished pitcher.

 

I understand that he's young but will he accept playing in Rhode Island for a couple years

 

He's been fine with playing most of last season in Portland. And with the talent he's put on display, I'm not convinced it'll take "a couple years." It's a given that Tazawa will pitch at least a few innings for the Sox next year, as an injury replacement if nothing else. Besides, it's not like he's got a choice. He's under contract.

 

These kids get emotional and we have had a lot more busts than success stories since the Asian kids started coming here 18-20 years ago.

 

Actually, the success rate as a percentage of pitchers brought over is probably much higher for Japanese than it is for Dominicans. It's just that the busts are less public, since they tend to die out in the minors.

[Mr Crunchy]

Hi Lynda, I figured with Nawlins winning yesterday that you'd end up at Tracy Porters house on St Charles St, that party should be running smoothly till fat Tuesday at least.

Wakefields 1st win as a Redsox pitcher was the week of my stag party in NY, somewhere in the middle of Reagans 1st term I believe.

It was the last time I had sex that didnt involve pure, mutual hatred,dangerous levels of alcohol, violence and eventually a lot of tears so ya, I have love for him and consider him a key component in keeping my marriage together and my annual nomination for Worcester County's Husband of the Year award.

[VA Sox Fan]

Hi Lynda, I figured with Nawlins winning yesterday that you'd end up at Tracy Porters house on St Charles St, that party should be running smoothly till fat Tuesday at least.

Wakefields 1st win as a Redsox pitcher was the week of my stag party in NY, somewhere in the middle of Reagans 1st term I believe.

It was the last time I had sex that didnt involve pure, mutual hatred,dangerous levels of alcohol, violence and eventually a lot of tears so ya, I have love for him and consider him a key component in keeping my marriage together and my annual nomination for Worcester County's Husband of the Year award.

 

Wake is the man. Glad he has a personal significance in your life. Hope that he's healthy and successful for us this year.

 

I was actually pulling for the Colts although I really didn't care who won. Glad the Saints finally won a Super Bowl. Good for them.

[Mr Crunchy]

""Tazawa dominated for Nippon, pitching a complete-game shutout in his final start, which was on Nov. 21. His fastball, according to a Major League source, is generally in the mid- 90s. Some reports suggested that Tazawa threw 97 mph""

Ian Brown, 11/28/2008.

 

Jesus Christ of all people to go to war over you're going to pick this guy?

Ok, I got time,its early in the month,Indy got smoked and I got paid and am in a pretty good mood for a Monday.

Are you menstruating or are you in the military?

Undersexed or underage? I like to size up the instigators before hand but I dont have that luxury today.

I'm as honest as any human being Ive ever met, thats not all that impressive based on my feeling on humanity but at the very least no one disputes this in my circle.

Unfortunetly I dont read every piece of RedSox literature that I do come across but you can clearly see for your own eyes what was written by him then.

I only can care so much about a guy who wont be in baseball in 2011 and the only reason THE ONLY REASON he pitched in Boston last year was sheer desperation and an attempt to justify the stupidity of signing a guy who we didnt do our homework on whether you believe this or not.

Ian Brown usually is full of s*** and dead wrong or what was it you said""Tazawa wasnt supposed to throw 97""...I agree with you, I'll blow 20 Japanese writers in the EMC suite if he could throw 93, never mind 97.Its the other guy,the Sox in house writer whos lying because I did see this **** pitch and this guy couldnt break a window from 30 feet. For the sake of argument I freely admit I wouldnt know Tazawa from the guy who eats all those hotdogs but I am certainly capable of reading English sonny and I did read that hes capable of throwing 97 and did throw in the mid 90s.

 

The heck does that have to do with anything? We acquired him as a prospect, not as a finished product

 

[B]Ok you like to be right even when youre wrong so you're telling me we spent 6M on him for 3 years to boost the attendence in Portland or Pawtucket or wherever the f*** he pitches? Prospect my ass.

I was under the impression we signed this guy to improve the team that plays in Boston/B]

Oooh, you mean you're one of those people who Watch The Games, rather than say Check The Numbers, Read The Scouting Reports, or Know what The **** You're Talking About.

 

No, I'm the guy who drools over the 19 Japanese MLB players that were active last year. Ya I saw the guy actually pitch,I also read the scouting reports when we signed him and they were wrong as hes incapable of breaking an egg with his fastball which means doom in the AL East.

Let me spell it out in the Kings English. He sucked, he ate it, he got blessed in 1 effort and was putrid in his others and all things considered Im of the mindset he'll be pitching for a lot less money in 2011 than hes making now..

Are you hanging your hat on his 2-3 7.46 in 6 games?

What would that ERA look like if the Yanks didnt leave 20men on base in 7IP that July day? Where the f*** do you get your optimism from with this guy? What are you reading that I should be?

I have no clue what you're watching and you sound like that guy Jackson(no offense MJ, you havent got a go f*** yourself from me in a while)who roots for the Yankees and has 25,000 posts, most of them full of complete s***...such as expecting to see this guy perform effectively.

Are you from the Sox brass or are you Asian by birth?

Seriously, if you like this guy enuff to question my intelligence you gotta have some kind of a warm fuzzy over this guy be it similar culture or perhaps you live in Maine or Central Falls?? You certainly cant be talking about the bloody gash we saw pitch here last summer, the guy Theo gave 6m to because he starred in the Japanese industrial league.

Bottom line here

What he does in Maine means s***, what he does in Rhode Island means s*** and someday when you grow up and age into adulthood you'll stop masturbating furiously about prospects, especially these useless f***s and will be patient enough to wait till they develop.... Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you when youre young at heart...

Its fun to be optimistic but I leave that to the children. I deal in reality..If you think this guy has a future

in Boston God bless you, if Im you Id buy all the Tazawa gear you can find now because anywhere between the next 4 and 20 months they wont be selling it Stateside

 

OK. You're dead wrong. But OK.

No, I am dead right..Tomo Ohka went 14-0 in 1 blistering year in Pawtucket, he was our savior so we were told by scouts, buy the scribes, by the brass and the other unmitigated ballwashers who have been wrong so much more often than not. He was another useless MLB pitcher both here and during his less than mediocre career all over baseball with the expos being his primary home. Checo was signed by Duquette for big money at the time and didnt win a game here or anywhere that I recall, do I really need to go on with the Sunny Kim's Seung Song's or the rest of the Asian softball pitchers that infested our system with false optimism for years on end??

 

 

Actually, the success rate as a percentage of pitchers brought over is probably much higher for Japanese than it is for Dominicans. It's just that the busts are less public, since they tend to die out in the minors.

 

Agreed, the #s arent even close but there are different rules and way different prices when you're drafting kids out of the Dominican or signing what are usuall Japanese players

 

If you like this guy so much why didnt you ballistic when the Sox let Saito go to the Braves for 3M??

Saito's old, real old but his #s stack up with most of the mlb relievers pretty well.

2006 6-2 2.07

2007 2-1 1.40

2008 4-4 2.49

2009 3-3 2.43

He's certainly more capable than Tazawa is going into this year and he left here for 3M per or 1M more than Tazawa's making ripping up Nashua....but getting his tits lit up like the Lucky 7 slots at the old Flamingo in MLB action and theres nothing that I have seen read or heard that changes this.

 

If I could get that thread open when Kei Igawa made his 1st start for the Yanks Id love it.

It starts ""This guy has 4 pitches, is MLB ready and will answer the Sox signing DiceK"" There was infinitely more ballwashing going on but for the sake of time I'll end this post with that quote from Jackson somewhere in the 3rd inning when Igawa was getting sliced up badly and Jackson ended his night with "This guy sucks"".....and on that thought my friends have a blessed evening.

[Keeper]

Oooh' date=' you mean you're one of those people who Watch The Games, rather than say Check The Numbers, Read The Scouting Reports, or Know what The **** You're Talking About.[/quote']

 

Jesus, he is a fan entitled to his own opinion. It goes both ways. You tend to believe the hype about every prospect.

 

From what I saw of Tazawa last year, I would have to agree with Crunchy. His 25 innings may be a small sample size, but he got f***ing rocked. Besides that, he has a small pitcher's frame, and he made the White Sox look like they had a murderer's row.

[redsoxrules]

Jesus' date=' he is a fan entitled to his own opinion. It goes both ways. You tend to believe the [b']hype about every prospect[/b].

 

From what I saw of Tazawa last year, I would have to agree with Crunchy. His 25 innings may be a small sample size, but he got f***ing rocked. Besides that, he has a small pitcher's frame, and he made the White Sox look like they had a murderer's row.

 

yup

[example1]

Just because one source said he hit 97 doesn't mean that people expect him to hit 97 or that the Red Sox expected him to hit 97.

 

Tazawa's not going to be the next big thing, but he had a pretty good MiLB season last year in his introduction to American baseball, living in the United States, speaking English, etc., so I'm willing to give him a little bit of time before declaring that he can't be effective in the bigs.

[Plumpamania]

If you like this guy so much why didnt you ballistic when the Sox let Saito go to the Braves for 3M??

Saito's old, real old but his #s stack up with most of the mlb relievers pretty well.

2006 6-2 2.07

2007 2-1 1.40

2008 4-4 2.49

2009 3-3 2.43

He's certainly more capable than Tazawa is going into this year and he left here for 3M per or 1M more than Tazawa's making ripping up Nashua....but getting his tits lit up like the Lucky 7 slots at the old Flamingo in MLB action and theres nothing that I have seen read or heard that changes this.

 

Tazawa is a SP and is under 23, Saito is a MR with injury history moving towards 40. Big difference.

 

Tazawa is a prospect and signed as a prospect for only $6 million. How'd you have felt paying Adolis Chapman $30 million to go through the minors as a prospect?

 

Our #4 this year is Daisuke. Tazawa can be a servicable #4 TODAY in the AL East. I firmly believe that. Michael Bowden (drafted not technically signed like a FA to a minor league contract as you stated) would be a solid #4 TODAY in the AL East. The Sox have some great young arms. Our AAA is stacked this year in terms of pitching. I think you need to chill out on your over evalution of the farm system.

 

Unfortunetly I dont read every piece of RedSox literature that I do come across but you can clearly see for your own eyes what was written by him then.

I only can care so much about a guy who wont be in baseball in 2011 and the only reason THE ONLY REASON he pitched in Boston last year was sheer desperation and an attempt to justify the stupidity of signing a guy who we didnt do our homework on whether you believe this or not.

 

The only reason he pitched in the MLB level last year was due to injuries to our MLB staff. Thanks.

[Plumpamania]

Scouting Report: Small-framed Japanese pitcher with very good potential and top-notch secondary offerings. In an unprecedented move, Tazawa asked his home country's pro teams to refrain from drafting him in order to allow him to pitch in the United States directly from the amateur ranks. He signed with Boston despite receiving larger offers from several other U.S. clubs. His delivery is somewhat unconventional - his arm lags behind his shoulder and he has an abrupt whipping action down from his elbow as he releases the ball. His follow through isn't all that smooth. However, his lower body has solid mechanics and stays balanced throughout his motion. Tazawa pitched exclusively out of the stretch before signing, and the Red Sox had to teach him to pitch from the wind-up. He makes use of an 88-92 mph fastball that works inward on righties. It flattens out at higher velocities. Presently it's about average, but it has some plus potential. His secondary stuff is very advanced for his age, and he relies on it heavily. He mixes in a solid 77-81 mph backdoor slider, a nice mid-70s curve (his out pitch), and also makes use of an above average low-80s split-fingered changeup. His forkball has awesome potential. He has excellent command, and likes to paint corners similar to Daisuke Matsuzaka, one of his idols. However, he doesn't nibble as much as Matsuzaka. A couple things to watch as Tazawa moves through the system are how he adapts to pitching from the windup and how well he responds to bad innings.

- Soxprospects.com

 

 Pitching Stats                                           
 year team lg level org age w l % era g gs sv ip h r er hr bb so whip k/bb k/9 
 2008 Nippon Oil JABA Intl --- 22 13 1 0.929 0.80 21 11 5 113.0 --- --- 10 --- 15 114 --- 7.60 9.08 
 2009 Portland East AA Bos 23 9 5 0.643 2.57 18 18 0 98.0 80 31 28 8 26 88 1.08 3.38 8.08 
 2009 Pawtucket IL AAA Bos 23 0 2 0.000 2.38 2 2 0 11.3 7 4 3 0 1 6 0.71 6.00 4.76 
 2009 Boston AL MLB Bos 23 2 3 0.400 7.46 6 4 0 25.3 43 23 21 4 9 13 2.05 1.44 4.62 

 

He'll be fine.

[redsoxrules]

Tazawa is a SP and is under 23, Saito is a MR with injury history moving towards 40. Big difference.

 

Tazawa is a prospect and signed as a prospect for only $6 million. How'd you have felt paying Adolis Chapman $30 million to go through the minors as a prospect?

 

Our #4 this year is Daisuke. Tazawa can be a servicable #4 TODAY in the AL East. I firmly believe that. Michael Bowden (drafted not technically signed like a FA to a minor league contract as you stated) would be a solid #4 TODAY in the AL East. The Sox have some great young arms. Our AAA is stacked this year in terms of pitching. I think you need to chill out on your over evalution of the farm system.

 

 

 

The only reason he pitched in the MLB level last year was due to injuries to our MLB staff. Thanks.

 

how so ? based on what ?

[Plumpamania]

how so ? based on what ?

 

Tazawa:

 

Pitching Stats                                           
 year team lg level org age w l % era g gs sv ip h r er hr bb so whip k/bb k/9 
 2008 Nippon Oil JABA Intl --- 22 13 1 0.929 0.80 21 11 5 113.0 --- --- 10 --- 15 114 --- 7.60 9.08 
 2009 Portland East AA Bos 23 9 5 0.643 2.57 18 18 0 98.0 80 31 28 8 26 88 1.08 3.38 8.08 
 2009 Pawtucket IL AAA Bos 23 0 2 0.000 2.38 2 2 0 11.3 7 4 3 0 1 6 0.71 6.00 4.76 
 2009 Boston AL MLB Bos 23 2 3 0.400 7.46 6 4 0 25.3 43 23 21 4 9 13 2.05 1.44 4.62

 

Bowden:

 Career Stats                                                                
  year team lg level org age w l % era g gs cg sh sv ip h r er hr bb so k/bb 
  2005 Waubonsie Valley HS    HS    18       --- 0.45                80.0                172 --- 
  2005 GCL Red Sox GCL Rk Bos 18 1 0 1.000 0.00 4 2 0 0 0 6.0 4 0 0 0 4 10 2.50 
  2006 Greenville SAL A Bos 19 9 6 0.600 3.51 24 24 0 0 0 107.2 91 50 42 9 31 118 3.81 
  2006 Wilmington Car A Bos 19 0 0 --- 9.00 1 1 0 0 0 5.0 9 5 5 0 1 3 3.00 
  2007 Lancaster Cal A Bos 20 2 0 1.000 1.37 8 8 0 0 0 46.0 35 10 7 1 8 46 5.75 
  2007 Portland East AA Bos 20 8 6 0.571 4.28 19 19 1 0 0 96.2 105 51 46 9 33 82 2.48 
2008 Portland East AA Bos 21 9 4 0.692 2.33 19 19 0 0 0 104.1 72 31 27 5 24 101 4.21 
2008 Pawtucket IL AAA Bos 21 0 3 0.000 3.38 7 6 0   0 0 40.0 40 16 15 5 5 29 5.80 
2008 Boston AL MLB Bos 21 1 0 1.000 3.60 1 1 0 0 0 5.0 7 2 2 0 1 3 3.00 
2009 Pawtucket IL AAA Bos 22 4 6 0.400 3.13 24 24 0 0 0 126.1 106 47 44 11 47 88 1.87 
2009 Boston AL MLB Bos 22 1 1 0.500 9.56 8 1 0 0 0 16.0 23 17 17 3 6 12 2.00 

 

If Hughes and Chamberlain can pitch in the AL East, these kids can. They did great in AAA and were limited in MLB experience last year.

 

If you look at other #4 starters in the AL East you have: Andy Pettite, M. Rzepczynski, C. Tillman and J. Niemann. I'd say they could in comparison they can...

[Keeper]

Yeah, I'm going to have to call BS on Tazawa and Bowden being "serviceable" and "solid" #4 starters right now. There is nothing to suggest that is the case. Also, Tazawa will be fine because he pitched well at Portland and because Soxprospects gives him a glowing scouting report?

[redsoxrules]

ok..... so based on their minor league numbers they can pitch in the MLB... WOW

it dosent work that way

 

hughes and chamberlain have way better suff than bowden and tawaza

 

I cant beleive the Sox got Lackey , especially since we have Tawaza and Bowden

[Plumpamania]

So if we shouldn't go off productivity in the minors to see when a player maybe well good in the Bigs when should we? Do we just wait for the next Josh Beckett or Roger Clemens? I bet you guys were against Lester on his original call up ...

 

Bowden's 3.13 ERA at AAA is a good sign, Tazawa's 2.38 ERA at AAA is a good sign too. Yes Hughes and Chamberlain have better stuff, but Wang, who was a mediocre prospect and mediocre in AAA was a 20 game winner at the MLB level, go figure?

 

No one here is the next Bill James or Theo Epstein or Billy Beane or John Scherholtz or anything...but as you guys said I'm allowed to have my opinion.

 

If Chris Tillman is ready for the bigs and Jeff Niemann is, Bowden surely is and Tazawa is on the way...