Thoughts on Adrian Beltre?

[redsoxrules]

Concurred. Thoughts on the OF/1B? I just skimmed the FA List and thought Frank Catalanotto or Greg Norton may be interesting.

 

ugh.... Red Sox killer. EVERY time he faces us he kills us

 

so maybe we should sign him lol

[Dojji]

How about Fernando Tatis for that OF/IF?

[Dipre]

Concurred. Thoughts on the OF/1B? I just skimmed the FA List and thought Frank Catalanotto or Greg Norton may be interesting.

 

I'd like Johnny Gomes, but that's probably a pipe dream.

[redsoxrules]

does this signing put the Sox over the cap? for luxury tax?

[Dipre]

How about Fernando Tatis for that OF/IF?

 

That's a pretty good idea.

 

He can also play 3rd in a pinch.

[Dojji]

We all do.

 

But just throwing him out the window is not very smart. Holding out and trying to get something for him would be way to go IMO.

 

Agreed. Maybe a AAAA relief type would be in order.

[Dipre]

does this signing put the Sox over the cap? for luxury tax?

 

Not if they trade Lowell.

[Dipre]

Agreed. Maybe a AAAA relief type would be in order.

 

Something, whatever. You never know where you can catch lightning in a bottle.

[TheMino007]

For one year, what the hell, I can live with it. But if this the move that puts the Sox over the luxury tax, then the Sox should really just go balls to walls and start spending like no tomorrow. Lowell will be gone in Spring Training, hopefully the Max Rameriz trade could be re-visited. For year I like the deal. Defense and run prevention is improved, and lets see if Beltre can actually hit now that he is out of Safeco for half the year.

[Dipre]

For one year' date=' what the hell, I can live with it. But if this the move that puts the Sox over the luxury tax, then the Sox should really just go balls to walls and start spending like no tomorrow. Lowell will be gone in Spring Training, hopefully the Max Rameriz trade could be re-visited. For year I like the deal. Defense and run prevention is improved, and lets see if Beltre can actually hit now that he is out of Safeco for half the year.[/quote']

 

But weren't you the one saying Lowell is still a viable option at 3B?

 

Why aren't you disappointed then?

[Spudboy]

So now the idea of trading Kotchman is acceptable?

 

Lol.

 

I suggested the idea 3 pages ago. But I'm smug.

 

What do I know?

[Dipre]

So now the idea of trading Kotchman is acceptable?

 

Lol.

 

I suggested the idea 3 pages ago. But I'm smug.

 

What do I know?

 

You are smug. Because you jumped to a conclusion without reading what others said. The point wasn't not to trade Kotchman, but to try to get something for him. Sorry, your idea is not as novel as you think, we've been talking about it since August.

[SoxSport]

I posted a couple of weeks ago I thought Beltre was a good option. Good to see defense-minded Theo was thinking the same, too. Though he clearly did not want to commit for more than one year at major dollars. Beltre still has some proving to do before he gets a real Boras type contract.

 

Beltre is a good option because 1) he improves the defense significantly, and 2) he should put up similar offensive numbers to Lowell last year. That would pretty much offset Bay's power numbers, when you include Cameron and VMart. And assume Ortiz can match last year's decreased productivity.

 

I also see there's a rumor of a Lowell for Castillo deal with the Mets-- in MLBtraderumors.com.About the same total money--Castillo for 2 yrs, Lowell for 1 year. That would reduce their 2010 payroll by 6 mil--the only reason they would do this. Lowell might play some 1B in NY.

 

To all those Yankee trolls (including some very good posters) who are in denial about who is the Big Spender of Baseball--it must be frustrating rooting for the 800 lb Gorilla. We all feel your pain. LOL.

[Imperial59]

does this signing put the Sox over the cap? for luxury tax?

 

The Red Sox will almost certainly be over the luxury tax with their opening day salary. But remember, the luxury tax is based on the average salary of the team throughout the year. In theory, the Sox could find someone to take on some of Lowell's salary and then trade someone like Papelbon and/or Ellsbury and lower payroll back below the salary tax threshold. I think the Sox are more than willing to pay the extra few million for the salary tax this year. They have over $60 million coming off the books after this season, so they could easily slide back under the luxury tax threshold next year.

[Imperial59]

I love the one year deal for Beltre. Worst case scenario, he repeats the offensive season he had last year, but he solidifies us as the best defense in baseball on paper. A more likely scenario is that his offense improves now that he's healthy and hitting in Fenway Park and he's a more productive player than Lowell was last year for less money.

 

Plus the one year deal means that it's still possible to trade for a big bat to play first or third either at the trade deadline or next offseason.

[riverside sluggers]

As much as some people might dislike this signing... couldve had Casey Kotchman as the starting 1st baseman!! Very ugh

 

Ill gladly take 1 year of Beltre, maybe even 2 with the option year being just $5 million. He will give 20-25 HRs, 75+ RBIs while playing gold glove D. Slick infield of Youk, Pedroia, Scutaro and Beltre

[Imperial59]

As much as some people might dislike this signing... couldve had Casey Kotchman as the starting 1st baseman!! Very ugh

 

Ill gladly take 1 year of Beltre, maybe even 2 with the option year being just $5 million. He will give 20-25 HRs, 75+ RBIs while playing gold glove D. Slick infield of Youk, Pedroia, Scutaro and Beltre

 

I agree completely. The last two years he was healthy he was good for 25 and 26 home runs in a very unfriendly hitter's park. He could easily hit 30 in Fenway next year if he's healthy and he's currently the best defensive 3B in baseball.

[Tyler Durden]

Does anyone have a spread sheet of the Red Sox payroll? Because I just added up all of 2010's contracts using Cot's and it's not close to the $170 million salary tax threshold.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20100105reports_sox_land_3b_adrian_beltre/

 

According to this, the payroll is now over $170 million

[Imperial59]

Does anyone have a spread sheet of the Red Sox payroll? Because I just added up all of 2010's contracts using Cot's and it's not close to the $170 million salary tax threshold.

 

That's because Cot's doesn't include arbitration eligible players since those players technically haven't committed to salaries for 2010. No one actually knows what the Red Sox salary will be next year yet. We'll have to wait and see what arb eligible players they settle with and for how much money, and which they have to go to arbitration with, and how much money the players that go to arbitration make.

 

Unless the Sox dump part of Lowell's salary, or dump someone else's salary, their salary figures to be about $180 million.

[Tyler Durden]

That's because Cot's doesn't include arbitration eligible players since those players technically haven't committed to salaries for 2010. No one actually knows what the Red Sox salary will be next year yet. We'll have to wait and see what arb eligible players they settle with and for how much money, and which they have to go to arbitration with, and how much money the players that go to arbitration make.

 

Unless the Sox dump part of Lowell's salary, or dump someone else's salary, their salary figures to be about $180 million.

 

Who's going to get a significant raise?

 

Jonathan Papelbon ($6.25M in 2009)

Casey Kotchman ($2.885M in 2009)

Jeremy Hermida ($2.25M in 2009)

Manny Delcarmen ($0.476M in 2009)

Jacoby Ellsbury ($0.4495M in 2009)

Ramon Ramirez ($0.441M in 2009)

Jed Lowrie ($0.414M in 2009)

Clay Buchholz ($0.4135M in 2009)

 

I just don't see how the arbitration cases are going to bump it up so much to get it close to $170 million.

[Imperial59]

This commercial's a few years old, but it's what I think of every time I hear Beltre's name.

 

[Imperial59]

Who's going to get a significant raise?

 

Jonathan Papelbon ($6.25M in 2009)

Casey Kotchman ($2.885M in 2009)

Jeremy Hermida ($2.25M in 2009)

Manny Delcarmen ($0.476M in 2009)

Jacoby Ellsbury ($0.4495M in 2009)

Ramon Ramirez ($0.441M in 2009)

Jed Lowrie ($0.414M in 2009)

Clay Buchholz ($0.4135M in 2009)

 

I just don't see how the arbitration cases are going to bump it up so much to get it close to $170 million.

 

Go take a look at the Cot's 2010 salary table. It doesn't include salary figures for any of those players because they haven't agreed to a contract for next year yet. They're under team control, but they don't have contracts.

[Imperial59]

Here's a BP blog post on how great a value Beltre could be next year. They project him at around a 3.1 WAR and a $14 million value in 2010. That's almost 3 times the WAR Lowell provided last year and it's well under what he's going to be paid as well.

 

http://www.baseballdailydigest.com/2010/01/01/why-your-team-should-sign-adrian-beltre/

[callandor1000]

I would just as soon stick with Lowell at 3B and let Lowrie move between 3B and SS as rest is needed for Scutaro and Lowell.

[Imperial59]

Looks like Beltre turned down a 3-year deal and a 4-year deal to sign with the Sox. So I'm sure he'll be highly motivated to improve his value next year and get better contract offers next year. Will that mean another 48 home run seaosn? Probably not, but if he hits 30 home runs, he'd be worth about 2 more wins than Lowell was last year, which would make us about a 97 win team before you factor in Lackey and Scutaro.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2010/01/04/beltre-turned-down-more-money-to-play-for-sox/

[example1]

$9m for one year with a 5m player option? That's fine with me.

[callandor1000]

As much as some people might dislike this signing... couldve had Casey Kotchman as the starting 1st baseman!! Very ugh

 

 

Kotchman was never going to be the starting 1b. It would have been Youk, with Lowell at 3B (as it should be).

[yankees228]

I posted a couple of weeks ago I thought Beltre was a good option. Good to see defense-minded Theo was thinking the same, too. Though he clearly did not want to commit for more than one year at major dollars. Beltre still has some proving to do before he gets a real Boras type contract.

 

Beltre is a good option because 1) he improves the defense significantly, and 2) he should put up similar offensive numbers to Lowell last year. That would pretty much offset Bay's power numbers, when you include Cameron and VMart. And assume Ortiz can match last year's decreased productivity.

 

I also see there's a rumor of a Lowell for Castillo deal with the Mets-- in MLBtraderumors.com.About the same total money--Castillo for 2 yrs, Lowell for 1 year. That would reduce their 2010 payroll by 6 mil--the only reason they would do this. Lowell might play some 1B in NY.

 

To all those Yankee trolls (including some very good posters) who are in denial about who is the Big Spender of Baseball--it must be frustrating rooting for the 800 lb Gorilla. We all feel your pain. LOL.

 

Absolutely ridiculous. You never respond to legitimate arguments that counter your own. You only repeat the same line, time and time again. Maybe you're just not reading what I post...

 

I never denied that the Yankees are the big spender in baseball. I only counter your argument about everything the Yankees do being about money (specifically when you talk about Vazquez and Granderson), and your argument that they have no limit (ridiculous, for the reasons already mentioned).

 

EDIT: I don't want to take away from the talk about Beltre. Good move, enjoy it. SoxSport just takes a shot at the Yankees in almost every single one of his posts, and, apparently, he's incapable of responding to counter-arguments. So be it.

[CoachC.]

The deal was agreed to in principle on New Year’s Eve and finalized on Sunday night. Beltre turned down more money from at least two teams – he had a four-year offer early in free agency and then a three-year deal for roughly the same annual value as the deal the Red Sox offered – but he chose Boston with an eye on having a big year for a contender and then hitting the market again next year.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2010/01/04/beltre-turned-down-more-money-to-play-for-sox/