Unofficial Adrian Gonzalez thread.

[a700hitter]

But they did use the money they had in 2008. They signed Pedroia' date=' Youk, Lester to long term contracts. Then they filled pitching needs with Smoltz and penny. Both signed with incentive-laden contracts.Who would have thought that future HoF John Smoltz would have been such a bust in Boston? He was an incredible pitcher before, and well, I'm sure he's going to have great numbers if he signs again. No, they didn't sign him a big guaranteed contract, but they did give him an incentive-laden contract. [/quote']I was openly critical of the deal. I didn't expect that he would contribute anything. He was less than 1 year removed from major shoulder surgery and 41 years old. Who comes back as a productive starter less than 1 year after major shoulder surgery? No one. It was a waste of $5 million.

The FO is frugal. Look at wakefield's recent contract.

Frugal? How can you claim that when they spent ungodly amounts for Lugo, Dice K and Drew in 2006? Also, their payroll is usually the second or third highest in baseball. That's frugal?

Typically' date=' they generally don't sign big players unless they think they see things in them that other teams don't. J.D. Drew for example... he is such an underrated player, but has nearly a .400 OBP and .500 slug. [/quote']Is it be possible to be under-rated and over-paid?

Do I think the FO is incredibly smart? Yes I do. Do I follow them like gospel? No' date=' I don't. Manny Ramirez for example is one situation where they f***ed up big time, and despite Bay's productivity, I believe it cost them the World Series in 2008. Dice-K I believe was a bad decision for the team and the roster, but at the same time I know the kind of foreign revenue he produces.[/quote']This will be a welcome change in this forum. Many follow them as Gospel.

[Dipre]

Is it be possible to be under-rated and over-paid?

 

How can you be over-paid when you're more productive than many OF's who make more money than you do?

 

Honest question.

[Gom]

At the same time, you still have not addressed how their offer to Mark Teixeira last year invalidates what you are saying. You are going to the mattresses with that 27% figure, and it's not even accurate, because last year's salary doesn't represent the long-term expenditure level they are willing to accept....it would be last year's offer to Teixeira + last year's payroll.

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million' date=' that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings[/quote']

 

If what Riverside says is true, I was wrong on my figure. It's 34%. Sorry, I don't count the Tex money, because...well...they didn't sign him. The chose to pocket the money rather than re-invest it.

 

I was going to post this:

 

2009 Opening day payroll: 121,745,999.

 

Offer to Teix (supposedly): 168/8: 21 mill for 2009.

 

Total: 142,745,999.

 

2010 opening payroll figure (pending arbitration cases): 135, 228,333.

 

Add to that around 7-12 million in arbitration (Let's say 12 for argument's sake).

 

2010 payroll: 147,228,333.

 

The actual increase value if you consider the offer will be around 5%.

 

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million' date=' that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings[/quote']

 

Welcome to Dipre math!!!!!!! By the way...how is going to 147 million from 121 million only 5%? Easy...it's Dipre math!!!!!! How does 162 million go to 147 million? Easy...it's Dipre math!!!!

 

Thanks Riverside. I love it when Red Sox fans show other Red Sox fans that they are full of s***. You made me smile after shoveling my driveway.

[Palodios]

Frugal may have been the wrong word. They have money, but they generally spend their money wisely. Lugo remains a solid hitting shortstop, they just had no idea his defense would be so subpar, he would only hit when no one was on base, and that he would refuse to play any other positions besides shortstop. Dice-K, while I don't agree with the deal, I assume rakes in tons of money from Japanese markets, considering how many Japanese advertisements go up in the park on certain games.

 

The big problem with the Drew deal is that he's such a dead personality that no one goes to see games for the purpose of seeing him.

[Dipre]

If what Riverside says is true, I was wrong on my figure. It's 34%. Sorry, I don't count the Tex money, because...well...they didn't sign him. The chose to pocket the money rather than re-invest it.

Welcome to Dipre math!!!!!!! By the way...how is going to 147 million from 121 million only 5%? Easy...it's Dipre math!!!!!!

 

.

 

You should learn how to read. We're assuming a scenario where the Sox signed Tex to a 21 mill salary to prove a point, which of course flew right above your head. Also, the figure at the end of 2009 was much closer to the figure which we're assuming, due to mid-season acquisitions.

 

A non-sheep person such as you should have been able to calculate that.

 

Oh, and just so you know: That 162 million would include Lowell's (if traded) and Lugo's salary, which if on another team, don't count towards a luxury cap hit. A non-sheep poster such as yourself should know these things.

[Palodios]

Its also important to note that with the economy in recession, the sox were afraid that they werent going to sell-out the park every day so they didnt really want to keep up 2007 salary.

[Gom]

You should learn how to read. We're assuming a scenario where the Sox signed Tex to a 21 mill salary to prove a point, which of course flew right above your head. Also, the figure at the end of 2009 was much closer to the figure which we're assuming, due to mid-season acquisitions.

 

A non-sheep person such as you should have been able to calculate that.

 

Only when using Dipre math, can we count an outlay for a player that didn't happen.

 

Again, LOGIC dictates that they could spend the money, the had the ability, they just CHOSE not to. Which is all I've said all along. It wasn't that they were unable, they chose not to. The sheep, of which you are a part, took their CHOOSING not to as and INABILITY to do so.

Oh' date=' and just so you know: That 162 million would include Lowell's (if traded) and Lugo's salary, which if another team, don't count towards a luxury cap hit. A non-sheep poster such as yourself should know these things.[/quote']

Who said anything about luxury tax? I could care less about the luxury tax. It's still payroll isn't it? In the real world, yes...

 

but...not...in...the world of....

 

DIPRE MATH!!!!!

[Dipre]

Only when using Dipre math, can we count an outlay for a player that didn't happen.

 

Again, LOGIC dictates that they could spend the money, the had the ability, they just CHOSE not to. Which is all I've said all along. It wasn't that they were unable, they chose not to.

 

Who said anything about luxury tax? I could care less about the luxury tax. It's still payroll isn't it. In the real world, yes...

 

but...not...in...the world of....

 

DIPRE MATH!!!!!

 

While i understand that this is too complicated for your obviously inferior and biased thought process to comprehend, let me spell out to you in a way that fits the way you act:

 

1) The Sox were willing to spend the money last year on Tex, and they actually did, to a certain extent, by filling out the remaining holes in the club and making TDL acquisitions that boosted payroll. The Teix point was simply made to illustrate this point, but you're not smart enough to understand that there was simply no place to re-locate the resources you speak of at the offseason to significantly improve the club, and you haven't brought any evidence to the contrary, meaning you're just talking out of your ass.

 

2) What logic dictates is that the Red Sox are the second most productive franchise, and they spend like it, to argue otherwise, and state that they can go dollar-to-dollar with the Yankees is stupid, hence, so are you.

 

3) Everyone stating an argument here has done so by using data or actual examples. You just run your mouth without doing any research or making any real contributions.

 

You're not 12, stop acting like it.

[Dipre]

Only when using Dipre math, can we count an outlay for a player that didn't happen.

 

Again, LOGIC dictates that they could spend the money, the had the ability, they just CHOSE not to. Which is all I've said all along. It wasn't that they were unable, they chose not to. The sheep, of which you are a part, took their CHOOSING not to as and INABILITY to do so.

 

Case in point.

 

When you don't analyze what you're reading, points fly right above your head. I'm sorry, i can't hear the words coming from your mouth due to the much higher volume of those coming out of your ass.

 

Who said anything about luxury tax? I could care less about the luxury tax. It's still payroll isn't it? In the real world, yes...

 

but...not...in...the world of....

 

DIPRE MATH!!!!!

 

This is the most stupid post you've ever made during your stay in Talksox, and that's saying a lot.

 

You choose to ridicule the point instead of directly addressing it, because you can't.....just like a 12-year-old would. You're 37, act like it.

[Gom]

While i understand that this is too complicated for your obviously inferior and biased thought process to comprehend, let me spell out to you in a way that fits the way you act:

 

1) The Sox were willing to spend the money last year on Tex, and they actually did, to a certain extent, by filling out the remaining holes in the club and making TDL acquisitions that boosted payroll. The Teix point was simply made to illustrate this point, but you're not smart enough to understand that there was simply no place to re-locate the resources you speak of at the offseason to significantly improve the club, and you haven't brought any evidence to the contrary, meaning you're just talking out of your ass.

Wait..according to you...they did allocate the money? How much of it was before the season started? Which monies were they? Smoltz? Penny? Which means their payroll was even MORE depressed than it could have been. Honestly, I don't have to do anything but turn your own words back against you. It's easier than taking candy from a baby.

2) What logic dictates is that the Red Sox are the second most productive franchise, and they spend like it, to argue otherwise, and state that they can go dollar-to-dollar with the Yankees is stupid, hence, so are you.

Where did I say the Red Sox can go dollar-to-dollar with the Yankees? Find me ONE instance where I said that. You can twist math to Dipre math, or logic to Dipre logic, but not my words. All I said is that the Red Sox are hypocrites for complaining about the Yankees finances since they can compete on a somewhat similar level but choose not to, and that they fool their fans by crying poverty and some "plan"...which they conveniently throw out the window when they see fit. They didn't break the bank to get Felix here...just a 31 year old pitcher with injury history and a 37 year old OFer. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

3) Everyone stating an argument here has done so by using data or actual examples. You just run your mouth without doing any research or making any real contributions.

Holy s***...what more do you want as stats? Radio in Boston, Cot's baseball contracts..I'm not making s*** up, I don't believe in Dipre math.

 

Nice strawman, by the way on luxury tax. As if I EVER brought up luxury tax. Ever. Quick..you're getting your ass handed to you again...make another argument, and hope someone bites!!!! Where's Emmz dammit!!!

 

You're the one who posted a 147 million payroll, not me. What data did you bring to the table? Data that isn't Dipre math?

[Dipre]

All i can say about this is, that until you can make logical, well thought-out , non-biased points on your assessment of the current issue, then there's no reason to continue arguing with you, figures have been used, issues have been explained, all using actual analysis. All you've said is "THE FO LIES,YOU'RE SHEEP!!!11!!!" without any sort of ground.

 

Your baseless claims tire me and the rest of the site. I've been trying to limit my exposure to shitstorms on the site, but i couldn't avoid this one, given that the level of idiocy exhibited by you on the subject is astounding.

 

My sincerest apologies to everyone on the site for letting myself get dragged down into an argument with someone whose only contribution is subjectivity and bias. I'm done here.

 

But make no mistake, he can cry, whine and moan all he wants. I schooled him here just like i schooled him on the Holliday discussion.

 

Good day.

[Gom]

Your baseless claims tire me and the rest of the site. I've been trying to limit my exposure to shitstorms on the site, but i couldn't avoid this one, given that the level of idiocy exhibited by you on the subject is astounding.

Leave then. You're good at that. Don't let the door slam you in the ass on the way out. The site was much better, more civil, and better baseball was discussed when you left. Don't embarrass this site and claim you speak for everyone here.

But make no mistake, he can cry, whine and moan all he wants. I schooled him here just like i schooled him on the Holliday discussion.

 

Good day.

Ok tough guy. So you lied then? You schooled me? Merry Christmas. I graciously agreed to a draw so your ego wouldn't be hurt. Every metric, every scout agreed with me...but that's ok. I won't reopen a closed discussion. You can.

 

To anyone who isn't a whining bitch...

 

Can't you guys see that your FO is full of it? All I said is they had this ability and didn't use it..while at the same time complaining that the Yankees were outspending them and everyone. Now, the Yankees seem to be coming down little by little, but the Red Sox are skyrocketing in payroll. The Yankees opened up a new stadium. They are making money hand over fist. What did the Red Sox do different?

 

Nothing.

 

They had the ability, they chose not to. That is, their prerogative. However, to claim that they CAN'T is different than to say that they WON'T.

[bsox0407]

Leave then. You're good at that. Don't let the door slam you in the ass on the way out. The site was much better' date=' more civil, and better baseball was discussed when you left. Don't embarrass this site and claim you speak for everyone here.[/quote']

 

Actaully it was pretty horrid with out him. You fighting with anyone you could but saying that we shouldn't attack others but wait you did it anyway.

 

Ok tough guy. So you lied then? You schooled me? Merry Christmas. I graciously agreed to a draw so your ego wouldn't be hurt. Every metric, every scout agreed with me...but that's ok. I won't reopen a closed discussion. You can.

 

Is this why the Cardinals scouts see a so called person who can't hit the inside FB is gonna get paid 15 million plus?

[Gom]

Actaully it was pretty horrid with out him. You fighting with anyone you could but saying that we shouldn't attack others but wait you did it anyway.

Apparently, the mods, and pretty much everyone else doesn't agree with you.

Is this why the Cardinals scouts see a so called person who can't hit the inside FB is gonna get paid 15 million plus?

I presume you mean the Dodgers scouts. It's ok, dude. Probably just a typo. Let's not open up that can of worms, shall we?

[bsox0407]

Apparently' date=' the mods, and pretty much everyone else doesn't agree with you. [/quote']

 

Don't make assumptions.

 

I presume you mean the Dodgers scouts. It's ok, dude. Probably just a typo. Let's not open up that can of worms, shall we?

 

I didn't hear the Dodgers offer him 15 million a year after they already have Manny.

[Emmz]

Apparently' date=' the mods, and pretty much everyone else doesn't agree with you.[/quote']

 

Lol huh? That's why we've been getting along with the overwhelming majority of people? All you've been doing is bringing this up again, and again, and again, and again, and again. You're like a broken record. If you could ever learn to make points to attack points, rather than incite fights, your argument here would be a bit more legitimate.

 

I presume you mean the Dodgers scouts. It's ok, dude. Probably just a typo. Let's not open up that can of worms, shall we?

 

Dismissive behavior, condescension, pretty much sums up Gom right there. Seriously, make points, argue points, don't be an ******* all the time. No one's impressed, and when you lose an argument, and have to eat crow (as you did yesterday, I loved that you used an article written about the Sox's cheapness days BEFORE Cameron and Lackey were signed as a reference), it makes you look pretty stupid.

 

Like I said, and like two others have said before me in the past few days: You're probably the one on their way to getting banned. I'm out of this discussion, because there's no point on carrying it on with someone who's as ignorant to reality as you are.

 

/Emmz

[Rdsxmbnt]

Can't you guys see that your FO is full of it? All I said is they had this ability and didn't use it..while at the same time complaining that the Yankees were outspending them and everyone. Now, the Yankees seem to be coming down little by little, but the Red Sox are skyrocketing in payroll. The Yankees opened up a new stadium. They are making money hand over fist. What did the Red Sox do different?

 

Nothing.

 

They had the ability, they chose not to. That is, their prerogative. However, to claim that they CAN'T is different than to say that they WON'T.

 

The Red Sox revenue was 206 mil in 2006. Just three years later it is at 269mil. That's a 63mil difference. YET, you claim the Red Sox have ALWAYS had the ability to spend this much money despite the fact that revenue has increased in such a huge way in an extremely short period of time.

 

How can this be made any more clear cut?

[Dipre]

The Red Sox revenue was 206 mil in 2006. Just three years later it is at 269mil. That's a 63mil difference. YET, you claim the Red Sox have ALWAYS had the ability to spend this much money despite the fact that revenue has increased in such a huge way in an extremely short period of time.

 

How can this be made any more clear cut?

 

2009 Boston Red Sox mainstream revenue:

 

$269 million dollars.

 

2009 Boston Red Sox player expenses:

 

$165 million dollars.

 

Revenue-player expense %:

 

61.33%

 

2009 New York Yankees mainstream revenue:

 

$375 million dollars.

 

2009 New York Yankees player expenses:

 

$236 million dollars.

 

Revenue-player expense%:

 

62.93 %

 

 

Here you go.

[ORS]

Sorry' date=' I don't count the Tex money, because....[/quote']

Of course you don't, it invalidates what you say.

 

BTW, I've run a spreadsheet with the information from Cots with estimates for arb eligible players ($10M to Papelbon, $5M to Hermida, $5M to Kotchman, $1M to Ramirez, $1M to Delcarmen). The salary total for the 25 players likely to make the 25-man roster is $148.625M. The $162M likely comes from the AAV value of the contracts, as Youk, Lester, Pedroia, and Matsuzaka will all make more in 2011 and beyond. For the purposes of measure against the cap, AAV is what you use. For the purposes actual expenditures as it relates to the team being "cheap" the actual is what should be used.

[Gom]

Here you go.

 

Do it for last year, with the Sox at 121 million. What do you get then?

 

Thanks for making my argument stronger. This is what the Sox should be spending. God, you're too much of an imbecile to realize it.

[Gom]

Of course you don't' date=' it invalidates what you say.[/quote']

 

No, maybe because...drum roll...he's not on your team. Novel concept, huh? Not counting the salary of a player not on your team, huh? Weird.

 

Like I said, I'd be surprised if they came out below 150 million. I don't think the Sox are done either, as they will do what they can to get rid of Lowell.

[ORS]

Gom, the discussion you are interested in is what they are "willing" to spend. They were willing to spend on Teixieira. How much is open to debate, but their interest and willingness was real.

[Dipre]

Do it for last year, with the Sox at 121 million. What do you get then?

 

Thanks for making my argument stronger. This is what the Sox should be spending. God, you're too much of an imbecile to realize it.

 

The final figure for player expenditure last year was not 121 million dollars.

 

Try again, using actual player salaries, as well as expenses and bonuses. The figure rises to $165 million dollars.

 

Source: Baseball Values Boston Red Sox.

 

If you read my above post again, you'll notice that the sentence used was not "2009 payroll" but "2009 player expenses".

[Gom]

Lol huh? That's why we've been getting along with the overwhelming majority of people? All you've been doing is bringing this up again' date=' and again, and again, and again, and again. You're like a broken record. If you could ever learn to make points to attack points, rather than incite fights, your argument here would be a bit more legitimate.[/quote']

Emmz to the rescue. At least Dipre tries, but fails at making points here. You're a waste of bandwidth.

 

Dismissive behavior, condescension, pretty much sums up Gom right there. Seriously, make points, argue points, don't be an ******* all the time. No one's impressed, and when you lose an argument, and have to eat crow (as you did yesterday, I loved that you used an article written about the Sox's cheapness days BEFORE Cameron and Lackey were signed as a reference), it makes you look pretty stupid.

 

Like I said, and like two others have said before me in the past few days: You're probably the one on their way to getting banned. I'm out of this discussion, because there's no point on carrying it on with someone who's as ignorant to reality as you are.

 

/Emmz

God, you can't realize that Shaughnessy was saying what the Sox should do...what I've been saying they have the ability to do...and when they finally do it, he is validated, and so have I.

 

Again, for people who have trouble graduating high school...the Sox have the ability to go higher in payroll...and they are finally doing it. They've been selling you all a lie, and the majority of you bought it.

 

Now that they're spending it, you are on the bandwagon. You never stopped to ask why now? Why not last year? Or the year before?

 

The Yankees opened a new stadium. They had a ton of expiring contracts. They were able to add CC, AJ, Tex, and Swisher...and decrease payroll. For them it made sense, as they could carry this debt load easily.

 

The Sox increased payroll dramatically. Why? What happened? Nothing. Did they open a new stadium? No. New media deal? No. Expiring contracts? No. Zero, zip, zilch. Which means that this ABILITY was there. They chose not to. That's their prerogative. However, to complain about the Yankees while not spending what you can to improve your team is a bunch of hypocritical horseshit.

 

Anyone with an IQ in double digits can see this. Honestly...what a bunch of imbeciles.

[Dipre]

Emmz to the rescue. At least Dipre tries, but fails at making points here. You're a waste of bandwidth.

 

God, you can't realize that Shaughnessy was saying what the Sox should do...what I've been saying they have the ability to do...and when they finally do it, he is validated, and so have I.

 

Again, for people who have trouble graduating high school...the Sox have the ability to go higher in payroll...and they are finally doing it. They've been selling you all a lie, and the majority of you bought it.

 

Now that they're spending it, you are on the bandwagon. You never stopped to ask why now? Why not last year? Or the year before?

 

The Yankees opened a new stadium. They had a ton of expiring contracts. They were able to add CC, AJ, Tex, and Swisher...and decrease payroll. For them it made sense, as they could carry this debt load easily.

 

The Sox increased payroll dramatically. Why? What happened? Nothing. Did they open a new stadium? No. New media deal? No. Expiring contracts? No. Zero, zip, zilch. Which means that this ABILITY was there. They chose not to. That's their prerogative. However, to complain about the Yankees while not spending what you can to improve your team is a bunch of hypocritical horseshit.

 

Anyone with an IQ in double digits can see this. Honestly...what a bunch of imbeciles.

 

 

As usual, you cross the line.

 

Instead of attacking points to prove your premises, you resort to personal attacks.

 

Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Do it for last year, with the Sox at 121 million. What do you get then?

 

Thanks for making my argument stronger. This is what the Sox should be spending. God, you're too much of an imbecile to realize it.

 

Your argument has been debunked MULTIPLE times in this thread. You've just decided to ignore the relevant posts.

[Emmz]

Wow, you have a lot of hate towards me. For a guy who wants us all to tone it down, you sure don't follow your own rules.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Emmz to the rescue. At least Dipre tries, but fails at making points here. You're a waste of bandwidth.

 

God, you can't realize that Shaughnessy was saying what the Sox should do...what I've been saying they have the ability to do...and when they finally do it, he is validated, and so have I.

 

Again, for people who have trouble graduating high school...the Sox have the ability to go higher in payroll...and they are finally doing it. They've been selling you all a lie, and the majority of you bought it.

 

Now that they're spending it, you are on the bandwagon. You never stopped to ask why now? Why not last year? Or the year before?

 

The Yankees opened a new stadium. They had a ton of expiring contracts. They were able to add CC, AJ, Tex, and Swisher...and decrease payroll. For them it made sense, as they could carry this debt load easily.

 

The Sox increased payroll dramatically. Why? What happened? Nothing. Did they open a new stadium? No. New media deal? No. Expiring contracts? No. Zero, zip, zilch. Which means that this ABILITY was there. They chose not to. That's their prerogative. However, to complain about the Yankees while not spending what you can to improve your team is a bunch of hypocritical horseshit.

 

Anyone with an IQ in double digits can see this. Honestly...what a bunch of imbeciles.

 

The facts are right in front of you. The Red Sox revenue has gone up a ton in the last couple years making it NOW possible to afford this payroll.

 

Again you know NOTHING about the Red Sox revenue streams. Maybe popularity has increased? Maybe they've made strong investments? No one on this message board really knows yet the fact that the revenue has gone up is clearly documented.

[Gom]

Gom' date=' the discussion you are interested in is what they are "willing" to spend. They were willing to spend on Teixieira. How much is open to debate, but their interest and willingness was real.[/quote']

 

Finally, a decent post.

 

What I don't understand is why not, and not before? Think about who was there last year...and what they ended up this year.

 

If I was a Sox fan, I'd be happy that they closed the gap on the Yankees, but I'd wonder what took them so long.

 

The Yankees have come out and said that they are kind of treading water until next year, when a solid group of free agents are out there, including Lee, Crawford, Beckett, and Mauer. The Yankees don't have any real expiring contracts, and I expect them to resign Rivera and Jeter.

 

The Red Sox have Lowell and Ortiz and Beckett coming off the books. That's what...35 million or so? Put about 18-20 million towards Beckett, that still leaves a major player for the Sox.

 

Next year is when the real battle will be fought. Can you imagine Mauer hitting the market? What the the Yankees would throw at Lee? How a block of Lee would kill the Yankees? Crawford in pinstripes?

 

To calm things down a bit...all I'm saying, and I'll be nice, is that the Sox had this ability. The Sox revenue stream increased, but their payroll went down over the same time period. So they've been shafting their fans. This is what they should have been spending from 2006 [increases, not decreases]. Yet they sold you guys a bag of donuts and you bought it. Don't get mad at me, what you guys should be asking is...why not earlier?

[Gom]

The facts are right in front of you. The Red Sox revenue has gone up a ton in the last couple years making it NOW possible to afford this payroll.

 

Again you know NOTHING about the Red Sox revenue streams. Maybe popularity has increased? Maybe they've made strong investments? No one on this message board really knows yet the fact that the revenue has gone up is clearly documented.

 

While for three years, payroll has gone down. During that time, revenue has increased.

 

As fans...I would be pissed.

 

It's good for you guys that they are finally spending...but again..ask...why not over the last few years?

 

This is what a700 has been saying for YEARS. Every Yankee fan has been saying it here for years. Now you see it..and you still debate it. You've been played for fools, spending your money going to the games, paying for NESN, buying gear and programs, etc...putting money in their pockets, while they keep it and didn't reinvest it on the product you saw on the field...while telling you they couldn't. This is all I'm saying.