V-Mart's future in Boston past 2010?

[TheMino007]

I wonder what V-Mart's future with the Red Sox will be, we have picked up his option for this year, and all I've heard are whisperings that the Sox want to extend him. Would it be feasible and smart to extended V-Mart long term? I don't think his long term future is as a catcher, as we have seen during his final couple of years in Cleveland, he was trending more to being converted to a 1stbaseman. He's one of the best hitting catchers in all of baseball, but his defensive skills aren't impressive and how many games can he be limited to catching to before it starts to effect his offense? 100? 110? 120? Anyway, he is a decent firstbaseman in terms of offensive production, good, nothing great. An everyday firstbaseman will usually put up around that .830 OPS number that V-Mart has. He loses all his value when you transition him to 1stbase. I'd much rather try and trade for Gonzalez or Cabrera then slide V-Mart over there full time and try and find another young catcher for the future. How long to Exposito is ready? Three years? Two at the earliest? That is how long I would consider giving a contract offer to V-Mart for.

[Dipre]

For one, V-Mart had an .861 OPS last season, even at first base, that's valuable, add to that the ability to catch even if on a limited basis, and i have no idea how you can say he "loses his value" if moved to first, that's one of the dumbest things i have ever, ever heard, and i don't mean to insult you but Jesus Christ.

 

Second, you use the term "young catcher of the future" pretty loosely. There really aren't that many options *Cough* Joe Mauer *Cough*.

[TheMino007]

He has more offensive value as a catcher than a first basemen, I don't know why you can't wrap your head around it

[Dipre]

He has more offensive value as a catcher than a first basemen' date=' I don't know why you can't wrap your head around it[/quote']

 

You said he would lose ALL HIS VALUE. So of course i can't wrap my head around it Einstein.

[Cocos Disciples]

He doesn't lose all value, but I think it does go down. Offensively, as a catcher he's one of the few best in the game. As a 1B he's middle of the pack.

[TheMino007]

thats what I was pretty much trying to get across.

[Dipre]

He doesn't lose all value' date=' but I think it does go down. Offensively, as a catcher he's one of the few best in the game. As a 1B he's middle of the pack.[/quote']

 

He loses some value. Not as much as you'd think given his defensive struggles at the 2 position.

[Dipre]

thats what I was pretty much trying to get across.

 

But not what you wrote.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Who cares? An .861 OPS is an .861 OPS. This positional offensive value stuff is garbage.

[Cocos Disciples]

Who cares? An .861 OPS is an .861 OPS. This positional offensive value stuff is garbage.

 

And it's a lot easier to find a .861 OPS at 1B than catcher. There were 16 first basemen this season with an OPS higher than Martinez's, but only one catcher. An .861 OPS is an .861 OPS, but when you have a guy who can play both positions, offensively he is exceedingly more valuable at catcher. It's not even close.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I think he should catch. Positional offensive value as a whole annoys me. I look at offense, I look at the batting order, not the field.

[TheKilo]

You really can't see the value of positional when comparing offenses? Really?

 

Anyway, I'd be wary of giving Martinez anything longer than a three year contract extension. Then again, they did it for Varitek so I bet you'll see them do it for VMart.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You really can't see the value of positional when comparing offenses? Really?

 

Nope. A good OPS is a good OPS, a good SLG is a good SLG, etc.

[Dipre]

You really can't see the value of positional when comparing offenses? Really?

 

Anyway, I'd be wary of giving Martinez anything longer than a three year contract extension. Then again, they did it for Varitek so I bet you'll see them do it for VMart.

 

I don't think they'll go more than 3 years.

[redsoxrules]

You really can't see the value of positional when comparing offenses? Really?

 

Anyway, I'd be wary of giving Martinez anything longer than a three year contract extension. Then again, they did it for Varitek so I bet you'll see them do it for VMart.

 

me too, I'd rather just go hard for Mauer

[Rdsxmbnt]

I don't think a three year deal is going to cut it for Martinez. Some team will gladly go 4+ years for a catcher that hits as well as Martinez does.

[Dipre]

I don't think a three year deal is going to cut it for Martinez. Some team will gladly go 4+ years for a catcher that hits as well as Martinez does.

 

AAV. More money, less time and he might just take it.

[Rdsxmbnt]

AAV. More money' date=' less time and he might just take it.[/quote']

 

Is there any precedent at all for this for someone who very easily could get 4 or 5 years?

[Dipre]

Is there any precedent at all for this for someone who very easily could get 4 or 5 years?

 

"Very easily"?

 

4 perhaps.

 

5 where?

 

You're talking like V-Mart's a defensive wiz behind the plate. Everyone knows he's destined to leave the C position. No one will give him a 5 year contract earning elite catcher money to play 3 years behind the plate and 2 at 1B.

 

The precedent is common sense.

[Rdsxmbnt]

"Very easily"?

 

4 perhaps.

 

5 where?

 

You're talking like V-Mart's a defensive wiz behind the plate. Everyone knows he's destined to leave the C position. No one will give him a 5 year contract earning elite catcher money to play 3 years behind the plate and 2 at 1B.

 

The precedent is common sense.

 

A 31yr old Martinez should easily be able to get 4 years. So I'll give you 4 years and ask again, is there any precedent for a guy clearly taking more money for less years when they are only low 30's in age?

[BSN07]

I think the Mets could easily throw 5 years at Martinez. I think he could definitely get 5 years on the open market from somewhere.

 

To get him to sign an extension for less years I agree with you Dipre, they could very well just up the AAV and probably could get it done. I think the Sox could offer something like 11-13M AAV and it be a competitive offer he would consider. If they offer him 4/60M I think he signs tomorrow. I also think it's better to get him signed before Mauer gets his extension(I'm going to consider him as getting a extension from Minny until he actually hits the open market). That may alter the figure Martinez wants.

[TheMino007]

Oh god, Mauer is going to be a ton of money. That will drive up the negotiations price of V-Mart. I agree its better to get this thing done sooner rater than later. Offer him 3 years, 36 million and see if he bites.

[Dojji]

The way I have it figured V-Mart is our next first baseman, but his catcher flexibility adds to what he can bring to the table in Boston. I'd give him average-first-baseman money for 5 years or elite-catcher money for three, his choice.

 

I don't know why we have Kotchman when we could really use a 5th OF instead. Varitek will get playing time, meaning V-Mart can stand in as the backup 1B and probably will get pushed into the lineup that way anyway on days when Varitek is catching.

 

In fact the only reason to have Kotchman on the roster at all is as a LIDR for days when Martinez is playing first. That's not enough justification IMHO.

[Dipre]

A 31yr old Martinez should easily be able to get 4 years. So I'll give you 4 years and ask again' date=' is there any precedent for a guy clearly taking more money for less years when they are only low 30's in age?[/quote']

 

This is fair.

 

However, precedents must be set, and the Sox can get creative by maybe adding an option. If he doesn't bite, then hit the road Jack.

[Dipre]

I think the Mets could easily throw 5 years at Martinez. I think he could definitely get 5 years on the open market from somewhere.

To get him to sign an extension for less years I agree with you Dipre, they could very well just up the AAV and probably could get it done. I think the Sox could offer something like 11-13M AAV and it be a competitive offer he would consider. If they offer him 4/60M I think he signs tomorrow. I also think it's better to get him signed before Mauer gets his extension(I'm going to consider him as getting a extension from Minny until he actually hits the open market). That may alter the figure Martinez wants.

 

Not for elite catcher money, he won't, which is my point.

[BSN07]

Not for elite catcher money' date=' he won't, which is my point.[/quote']

 

 

Even still if he was on the open market this season, the Mets would be all over him, because they too could use him as a Catcher and 1B. I bet he would be their #1 target and they would easily offer him 5 years.

 

And what exactly is elite Catcher money?

 

Jorge Posada $? His was 4 years 52M and he was 36.

 

Mauer would be considered elite Catcher money, but he hasn't signed for it yet.

 

4/60M is an nice offer, possibly put in a 5th year vesting option for 16-18M or something. So that's 8M more guaranteed plus another reasonable option for 17M(just for avg sake), 25 M in total more then What Posada got, and I believe he is currently the highest paid Catcher in the league. I'm not sure how he turns it down. Unless Mauer's has signed and reset the market for Catchers.

 

There just aren't a lot of comparable's for V-Mart( I could be spacing someone, I'm sick),

[Rdsxmbnt]

There really aren't many huge contracts given out to catchers in the last decade. The main guys Posada/Varitek/Rodriguez/Kendall all were given contracts in their late 20's/early 30's and none for an average valiue of over 13mil per year. The one thing that is constant is the amount of years which has been 4+ for all them so it seems like catchers are more concerned about getting longer term deals since they know catching takes a heavy toll on their bodies.

[Dipre]

There really aren't many huge contracts given out to catchers in the last decade. The main guys Posada/Varitek/Rodriguez/Kendall all were given contracts in their late 20's/early 30's and none for an average valiue of over 13mil per year. The one thing that is constant is the amount of years which has been 4+ for all them so it seems like catchers are more concerned about getting longer term deals since they know catching takes a heavy toll on their bodies.

 

V-Mart has two things against him in the catcher debate for getting more than 4 years.

 

1) He is not a very good defensive catcher, and he's destined to man 1B/DH for most of the time sometime during the next 4 years.

 

2) This not the same market that saw all those money/years heavy contracts handed out, Mauer will get a s*** ton of money and years, but he's in a league of his own and only 26.

 

@BSN07:

 

Why would the Mets give a 31-year old V-Mart a 5-year contract to end up playing 1B when they don't have the DH available?

[callandor1000]

Mauer is not for us. He will be far too expensive. We should work on drafting and developing catchers and keep Martinez at a bargain price (compared to Mauer). Mauer could easily be the first $20+ million a year catcher.

[Dojji]

Don't shy away from paying good money for good players. Yeah, we're building from the farm more than we've done since the late 70'a but there's a time and a place to put money on the table to make sure that your roster is as competitie as it can be.

 

The only time to avoid spending money is if you have an 80% option for less money already on the team. We don't really have that at catcher, so I'd break the bank for Mauer if I thought he'd become available.