WEEI/Steve Phillips: Papelbon expected to be traded

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Clutch hitting is non-existent. Your post about the Red Sox not hitting when it mattered most would imply that you rely on 'clutch' performance in evaluating players/team offenses.

 

I wouldn't use the word clutch for that. I am merely just saying that against teams they needed to beat, they failed. It's not entirely the offense's fault, but down the stretch it seemed they were losing close games to good teams they needed to beat.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I wouldn't use the word clutch for that. I am merely just saying that against teams they needed to beat' date=' they failed. It's not entirely the offense's fault, but down the stretch it seemed they were losing close games to good teams they needed to beat.[/quote']

Saying they performed when it didn't matter and folded when it did falls under the 'clutch' umbrella.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Nice strawman.

 

Last part of that post was sarcasm, a joke, hence the emoticon.

 

"If you freely admit to placing more significane on the smaller sample size, I think we're done here."

 

Go ahead.

[bostonule25]

ooooo 3 games

 

Yup, they couldn't show up in the 3 games that mattered most

[Dipre]

Yup' date=' they couldn't show up in the 3 games that mattered most[/quote']

 

This statement is completely, totally, absolutely, undeniably asinine.

[bostonule25]

If you freely admit to placing more and on the smaller sample size' date=' I think we're done here.[/quote']

 

your logic makes no sense. If you think scoring 7 runs on the royals makes us a great offense then I question your thinking. Fact is we couldn't come up big when it mattered most or against good teams.

 

A-Gon/other big bat/ + bard + Wagner> papelbon and prospects

[bostonule25]

This statement is completely' date=' totally, absolutely, undeniably asinine.[/quote']

Explain

[Dipre]

Explain

 

You can run into an offensive drought at any moment, the fact that it happened in the postseason should not be magnified.

[yankees228]

You can run into an offensive drought at any moment' date=' the fact that it happened in the postseason should not be magnified.[/quote']

 

And is nothing more than bad luck.

[bostonule25]

It wasn't a slump, we havnt been voting great pitchers at all this season for the most part.

[TheKilo]

your logic makes no sense. If you think scoring 7 runs on the royals makes us a great offense then I question your thinking. Fact is we couldn't come up big when it mattered most or against good teams.

 

A-Gon/other big bat/ + bard + Wagner> papelbon and prospects

 

This equation means nothing without context.

 

What's the package you propose for "your big bat"? Let's hear it.

[TheKilo]

It wasn't a slump' date=' we havnt been voting great pitchers at all this season for the most part.[/quote']

 

What?

 

That's always going to be the case if "great pitchers" are the extreme minority.

[Dipre]

It wasn't a slump' date=' we havnt been voting great pitchers at all this season for the most part.[/quote']

 

No one hits great pitching for the most part.

 

You can make a case for lacking execution during the season, but the offense simply went AWOL during that particular series. It happens.

[jacksonianmarch]

I absolutely, 100% hope you deal him. Paps is the best reliever in sox history. Even though he has lost his untouchable title, he still converts almost all of his saves and is a big reason why the sox win as much as they do. If you deal him and then rely on a guy like Bard, who btw is no stranger to the long ball, then you will lose more games, no matter who you get back.

[ORS]

your logic makes no sense. If you think scoring 7 runs on the royals makes us a great offense then I question your thinking. Fact is we couldn't come up big when it mattered most or against good teams.

 

A-Gon/other big bat/ + bard + Wagner> papelbon and prospects

One, Wagner appears to be interested in retiring, perhaps you should modify expectations to account for this.

 

Two, it's actually your logic that is very flawed, and I'll show you why. You said you hoped they could become a top-3 offense with an acquisition. It was brought to your attention that they are already top 3. You attempted to invalidate that ranking by stating they only ranked that high because of the s***** pitching they face in the regular season. For this invalidation to be credible, it would mean that all the other teams faced only good pitching all season long. Do you not see this? The reality is that everyone faces bad pitching, and the offense that scores the 3rd most amount of runs is a safe bet to put in the top-3.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Imagine the return for Pap we could get if that idiot Phillips was still a GM in this league.

[jacksonianmarch]

"I will trade God for Papelbon!!" Steve Phillips (if he was still GM of the Mets)

[yeszir]

Can we actually use this thread to choose a new Papelbon entrance song? I think that was the most important takeaway from the article..

[bostonule25]

One, Wagner appears to be interested in retiring, perhaps you should modify expectations to account for this.

 

Two, it's actually your logic that is very flawed, and I'll show you why. You said you hoped they could become a top-3 offense with an acquisition. It was brought to your attention that they are already top 3. You attempted to invalidate that ranking by stating they only ranked that high because of the s***** pitching they face in the regular season. For this invalidation to be credible, it would mean that all the other teams faced only good pitching all season long. Do you not see this? The reality is that everyone faces bad pitching, and the offense that scores the 3rd most amount of runs is a safe bet to put in the top-3.

 

Check again genius Buster Olney claims that was a fake.

 

And so you're telling me, that if we go into next year with the same lineup we're a top 3 offense? No we aren't. It was great in April-June but I'd like you to find how many runs we scored after that. Not 3rd I'm pretty sure. And consider that with the fact that bay and/or Lowell or Ortiz could be gone

[msubulldogs21]

And consider that with the fact that bay and/or Lowell or Ortiz could be gone

 

Where do you have Ortiz going? He's under contract through 2010 with a club option for 2011. Doubt he's going anywhere.

[Keeper]

Trading Papelbon is a good idea if you have an elite closer lined up to replace him. Bard is unproven. Yeah, Papelbon's attitude rubs people the wrong way and yeah he pissed Game 3 away, but he is an insanely good closer. There are very few closers out there who are as reliable as him.

[BSN07]

Way to get the scoop Phillips:rolleyes: Did I not say like 3 months ago the Sox would shop Papelbon? Damn where is my ESPN contract? lol(Sarcasm)

 

I don't want them to move him for a bag of balls, the return better be good.

 

That said, I think if Papelbon was a closer for any other team the opinion of him would be a lot different around here. His walk totals tripled, it seemed like a lot of his outing were "unclean", and he seemingly has given up on anything but FB's. Not saying he's garbage or anything like that, but there are a few ? marks about him is all I'm saying.

 

Papelbon/Bowden/Reddick/Anderson for Hanley!

[Dojji]

Florida won't touch Papelbon.

[Mr Crunchy]

Steve Phillips? When was he ever correct about anything?

[BoSox21]

Where do you have Ortiz going? He's under contract through 2010 with a club option for 2011. Doubt he's going anywhere.

 

If they ate some cash, I could see a team trading for him to sell some tickets.

[ORS]

And so you're telling me, that if we go into next year with the same lineup we're a top 3 offense? No we aren't. It was great in April-June but I'd like you to find how many runs we scored after that. Not 3rd I'm pretty sure. And consider that with the fact that bay and/or Lowell or Ortiz could be gone

As the rosters stand right now, they are a top-3 offense. They are because they scored the 3rd most runs in the league. You suggested they need improvement to be a top-3 offense. You are wrong. Deal with it.

 

As far as forecasting if the same group would be a top-3 offense next year, I'm not interested in speculating on what will happen for each team and their offseason player acquisitions and how that will impact team scoring. You apparently weren't either, because you didn't say they needed to acquire a player to "stay" in the top-3, but to "get" into the top-3, as if they weren't already, which as established above, they are.

 

Your first-half / second-half point is bunk too. Using the All-Star break as the dividing line, like most people do when talking first-half / second-half, the team run scoring breaks down as follows:

 

1st half: 5.28 R/Gm

2nd half: 5.5 R/Gm

 

They were in 3rd place in total runs scored at the break. They were in 3rd place at the end. They are a top-3 offense.

 

This doesn't mean I don't think they could stand to improve, but that doesn't change the fact, and it is a fact, that your original premise was dead, flat wrong. If you don't like that, sorry. You can avoid this feeling of faliure if you think a little more before you post next time.

[ORS]

Way to get the scoop Phillips:rolleyes: Did I not say like 3 months ago the Sox would shop Papelbon? Damn where is my ESPN contract?

Phillips floated this idea back in May during a Sox game. I think it was a Yankee game actually. This is right around the time you started pimping the idea. Please don't act like this is your idea.

[BSN07]

Phillips floated this idea back in May during a Sox game. I think it was a Yankee game actually. This is right around the time you started pimping the idea. Please don't act like this is your idea.

 

You honestly couldn't tell I was joking? You think I really think I deserve to be working at ESPN? Fine I'll make it more obvious then.

 

Is your hatred of me so blinding you can't use common sense? Or is it really easier to believe I want actual credit and a job at ESPN for the" Papelbon trade idea" over me probably kidding around and making a joke at Steve Phillips expense by comparing his reporting skills to that of a message forum poster? Did I really just have to explain that? Come on man... Your a real tool sometimes<_>

[TheKilo]

I can't speak for ORS but I don't think he ever said anything about your comment for "working at ESPN", it was more of taking creit for a idea that wasn't yours.

[Dipre]

What i love is how people keep using this "Unclean innings" stat.

 

Papelbon got the job done even if he only threw fastballs and gave up a couple more walks. Trading him without an adequate replacement would be stupid.