Victor Martinez...

[badkarma25]

Is the reason why the Red Sox made the post season this year.

 

I honestly believe this. He came through on several different occasions to get the Sox a win and kept us ahead of the Rangers.

 

Just my opinion. Any thoughts?

[Dojji]

I'd agree if there weren't 9 games between us and the next wild card contender. That tells me that there probably isn't one reason.

[das11209]

It is absolutely the # 1 reason - without him we do not make the post-season.

 

I know that our starters were injured - but our offense around ASB was so bad - it was threatening to be one of the league worst. Bay was in huge slump and so was Ortiz. Somehow - VMart became the castalyst that bought the offense to very respectable.

 

Getting V-Mart is a nice feather on Theo's otherwise dismal record with trades. Not sure how the prospects and Masterson will work out in futrure - but in short term - he became Red Sox savior 2009.

[Dipre]

It is absolutely the # 1 reason - without him we do not make the post-season.

 

I know that our starters were injured - but our offense around ASB was so bad - it was threatening to be one of the league worst. Bay was in huge slump and so was Ortiz. Somehow - VMart became the castalyst that bought the offense to very respectable.

 

Getting V-Mart is a nice feather on Theo's otherwise dismal record with trades. Not sure how the prospects and Masterson will work out in futrure - but in short term - he became Red Sox savior 2009.

 

Had to get that shot in huh?

[Cocos Disciples]

According to WARP, Martinez added about 2 wins. So we probably do make the playoffs without him. I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from Martinez or the trade--it was a great trade and he's a great player.

[RedSox2737]

I think having T-nez is a BIG reason we went so far ahead of the Rangers/Rays......but not the only reason

[das11209]

Had to get that shot in huh?

 

You mean I am wrong?

[Dipre]

You mean I am wrong?

 

Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell and Ramon Ramirez say yes.

[das11209]

I think having T-nez is a BIG reason we went so far ahead of the Rangers/Rays......but not the only reason

 

Exactly what I wanted to say. Other reason is our starters came back from injuries - so we can DFA 'sure losers' like Smoltz or Penny.

[das11209]

Josh Beckett' date=' Mike Lowell and Ramon Ramirez say yes.[/quote']

 

Your baseball knowledge is certainly more than mine - so you know Theo would not have made the trade for Becket - he loved Hanley. That was done while he was away.

 

Your point with RamRam is taken.

[Dipre]

Your baseball knowledge is certainly more than mine - so you know Theo would not have made the trade for Becket - he loved Hanley. That was done while he was away.

 

Your point with RamRam is taken.

 

The groundwork for that trade was laid down before Theo's debacle.

 

The "it wouldn't have been done" part is pure speculation.

 

Oh, and Jason Bay.

[The_Destroyah]

Theo has been one of the best GMs in baseball since Boston hired him, your bashing of him absolutely confounds me.

[das11209]

Theo has been one of the best GMs in baseball since Boston hired him' date=' your bashing of him absolutely confounds me.[/quote']

 

I beg to differ. He has been good with player development - but other than that - his record has been fair at best. Too many examples of that - you can go 1 by 1 to all the moves he made since 2004 and see what % actually worked out.

 

 

 

Yeah - I know we won 2 world series - that does not mean he has done a great job.

[Dipre]

I beg to differ. He has been good with player development - but other than that - his record has been fair at best. Too many examples of that - you can go 1 by 1 to all the moves he made since 2004 and see what % actually worked out.

 

 

 

Yeah - I know we won 2 world series - that does not mean he has done a great job.

 

Hahahahahahaha.

 

Funniest post i've seen during my time on Talksox.

 

You were joking right?

 

Because if i remember correctly, not only has this team won two world series, but the farm system is churning out All-stars and quality players on a yearly basis.

[das11209]

Hahahahahahaha.

 

Funniest post i've seen during my time on Talksox.

 

You were joking right?

 

Because if i remember correctly, not only has this team won two world series, but the farm system is churning out All-stars and quality players on a yearly basis.

 

Glad I made you laugh - did you see the first part?

 

Check out what % of his trades and free agent signings have worked out since 2004.

[Dojji]

I can't really think of a truly disastrous trade Theo made. The closest one was the Gagne trade but frankly we didn't give up that much in that trade. The only player we gave up that has been worth anything to Texas so far is David Murphy, and he would have been at best a 4th OF for us. And we won the World Series despite that trade. I can't really feel too angry about it.

 

His track record with free agency is far worth than his trade record IMHO.

[Dipre]

Glad I made you laugh - did you see the first part?

 

Check out what % of his trades and free agent signings have worked out since 2004.

 

It's a stupid premise.

 

What matters are results, and Theo gets them.

 

I don't give two f***s about trades and FA signings as long as the team keeps winning and churning out quality players on a yearly basis.

 

And for the record: Beckett, Lowell, Ram-Ram, Drew, Dice-K, Okaji, Bay, V-Mart, Alex Gonzales, Billy Wagner and Rocco Baldelli are FA/trade acquisitions who have not only worked out but are current part of the Red Sox roster.

 

So, i ask:

 

What the f*** are you talkin' about?

[Dojji]

Agreed with Depre. When you take the bad with the good Theo is one of the best general managers in Red Sox history. Especially if you look past the product on the field to the team's overall financial health and minor league system for future trades, signings and roster moves, which is as strong as it's ever been even in the bad economy.

 

This is as good as it gets, and it shouldn't get worse in the near future. Theo has done everything you could reasonably expect of him and more.

[Dipre]

Agreed with Depre. When you take the bad with the good Theo is one of the best general managers in Red Sox history. Especially if you look past the product on the field to the team's overall financial health' date=' which is as strong as it's ever been even in the bad economy.[/quote']

 

Just think about it.

 

No matter how much people hate or love the Red Sox, it's difficult to argue against the fact that the Sox are the team of the decade.

 

And whose blueprint created this Red Sox team?

[Dojji]

Just think about it.

 

No matter how much people hate or love the Red Sox, it's difficult to argue against the fact that the Sox are the team of the decade.

 

And whose blueprint created this Red Sox team?

 

Not just the blueprint on the field either. You have to give them credit for keeping the financial underpinnings strong, the team popular, the stadium full, and the farm system deep, rich and diverse.

 

We're contending on an annual basis without sacrificing our long-term future. That's the freaking Holy Grail people. That's the best possible scenario.

[das11209]

I can't really think of a truly disastrous trade Theo made. The closest one was the Gagne trade but frankly we didn't give up that much in that trade. The only player we gave up that has been worth anything to Texas so far is David Murphy, and he would have been at best a 4th OF for us. And we won the World Series despite that trade. I can't really feel too angry about it.

 

His track record with free agency is far worth than his trade record IMHO.

 

#1 in my list is Mirabelli trade.

 

#2 WMP.

 

#3 Gagne.

 

Free agent signing we have too many examples : Smoltz, Penny, Lugo, failure to sign Tex, failure to resign Bay in a bad economy, overpaying for Drew etc. etc. I wont even mention Carlos Pena.

 

By the way - Theo has been one of the best with home grown players - absolutely. Thats what makes his other records look bad.

[Dojji]

#1 in my list is Mirabelli trade.

 

Really? A trade that sent a relief pitcher to the National League for a backup catcher is #1 on your hate list?

 

The significance of that trade to the Red Sox beyond the years Miravbelli actually played for us is virtually nil.

 

#2 WMP.

 

Because Bronson Arroyo would have saved our season in 2006 right? Right? Given a similar player at a position we'll need in a couple years (say a third baseman) I'd make the same deal over again.

 

#3 Gagne.

 

So basically you're telling me that you've got your knickers in a twist over a two much rental of a middle reliever. And the offensive titan that is David Murphy is a player we desperately miss from our offense right now, right?

[Dipre]

#1 in my list is Mirabelli trade.

 

#2 WMP.

 

#3 Gagne.

 

Free agent signing we have too many examples : Smoltz, Penny, Lugo, failure to sign Tex, failure to resign Bay in a bad economy, overpaying for Drew etc. etc. I wont even mention Carlos Pena.

 

By the way - Theo has been one of the best with home grown players - absolutely. Thats what makes his other records look bad.

 

1) Cla Meredith sucks ass.

 

2) Lol Bronson.

 

3) I'll give you that one.

[The_Destroyah]

Plus many of the players thatwe letgo or got rid of led to draft picks used for valuable prospects we see today.

[das11209]

1) Cla Meredith sucks ass.

 

2) Lol Bronson.

 

3) I'll give you that one.

 

We will have our difference - so let me voice mine. Mirabelli was a waste of roaster spot for long time - he was there just because Tek refused to catch Wakefield. Since then almost all Sox catchers caught him successfully including V-Mart. That should put an end to the myth that only Belli can catch Wake.

 

Meridith was virtually unhittable for a long stretch of time. Yeah I know diff. league etc. Bard could have been a better back-up than what we had.

 

Arroyo is no Cy-Yound winner but we could have used him really in 2006 when all no names were pitching for us at the end of the season.

[Dojji]

Smoltz

,

 

I'd try that one again given the chance. Smoltz was a great pitcher and it was worth seeing if he had something left.

 

Penny,

 

I'll give you that. Brad Penny doesn't belong in the American League.

 

Lugo,

 

Was against the deal at the time, but there wasn't much in the way of better options, and lest we forget, he came up big in the playoffs in 2007. Any signing that proves instrumental in earning a ring isn't all bad. About the only thing I really regret about the Lugo signing is losing the highest #1 pick we've had in years to bring him here.

 

Given my druthers I'd have told Theo to make a trade for Maicer Izturis. I think at the time, you could probably have gotten that done for Craig Hansen. With the benefit of hindsight that would probably have worked out better.

 

failure to sign Tex,

 

Evidence that Teixeira was ever interested in coming to Boston?

 

failure to resign Bay in a bad economy,

 

Plenty of time for that before the arbitration deadline after the playoffs.

 

overpaying for Drew

 

Drew has been worth every penny.

 

I wont even mention Carlos Pena.

 

Where the HECK would we have played him? At the time we had a healthy Ortiz, a healthy Lowell, and a healthy Youkilis occupying the positions he would have played.

 

Even leaving aside the 20/20 hindsignt of his breakout year there's NWIH that he woul have gotten the playing time to become what he became in Tampa if he'd stayed here.

By the way - Theo has been one of the best with home grown players - absolutely. Thats what makes his other records look bad.

 

This might be the most ridiculous thing you've said in a post full of ridiclouls things. His skill with young players is what makes everything work and look good.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

#1 in my list is Mirabelli trade.

 

Mirabelli for Loretta? O yea that was a s***** trade, Loretta was such an awful player.

 

Oh you mean Josh Bard for Mirabelli? The failure of a knuckleball catcher for the established one?

 

#2 WMP.

 

I lol at the thought of Arroyo pitching in the AL east right now.

 

#3 Gagne.

 

This was the right move to make. Gagne simply didn't pan out. If I have the option to make a similar move in the future, I do it every time.

 

Free agent signing we have too many examples : Smoltz, Penny, Lugo, failure to sign Tex, failure to resign Bay in a bad economy, overpaying for Drew etc. etc. I wont even mention Carlos Pena.

 

Smoltz - ok

 

Penny - Was signed to be a low-cost innings eater, that's what he proved to be

 

Lugo - ok

 

failure to sign Tex - You are, like everyone who looks at this way, f***ing delusional

 

failure to resign Bay - Lolwut? Ever think they're looking at Holliday as his replacement? Holliday > Bay. Sure its risky, but you can't steal second with one foot on first.

 

overpaying for Drew - With his production these days, we didn't overpay. Especially with MLB's recent contract inflation. Overpaid in 2007 =/= overpaid at the end of his contract.

 

Carlos Pena - Was a journeyman first baseman who never panned out anywhere he went. You mean you would have looked at this chump as a buried treasure and pulled out all the stops to re-sign him? Where the f*** would we have even put him? Youkilis and Lowell ringing any bells for you?

 

By the way - Theo has been one of the best with home grown players - absolutely. Thats what makes his other records look bad.

 

lol

[Dipre]

We will have our difference - so let me voice mine. Mirabelli was a waste of roaster spot for long time - he was there just because Tek refused to catch Wakefield. Since then almost all Sox catchers caught him successfully including V-Mart. That should put an end to the myth that only Belli can catch Wake.

 

Meridith was virtually unhittable for a long stretch of time. Yeah I know diff. league etc. Bard could have been a better back-up than what we had.

 

Arroyo is no Cy-Yound winner but we could have used him really in 2006 when all no names were pitching for us at the end of the season.

 

Tek cannot catch Mirabelli and neither could Bard.

 

Meredith has SUCKED ASS outside of comfy, spacious, offense suppressing Petco.

 

2006 was doomed with or without Arroyo and he has sucked for quite some time.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Was against the deal at the time, but there wasn't much in the way of better options, and lest we forget, he came up big in the playoffs in 2007. Any signing that proves instrumental in earning a ring isn't all bad. About the only thing I really regret about the Lugo signing is losing the highest #1 pick we've had in years to bring him here.

 

Exactly why it was an awful move. A player who wasn't even starting at the end of the previous season, and who's never been respectable, getting a 4/$36mil contract? At the expense of that first round pick? That is f***ing awful.

 

BUT, it was only one move stacked up against some very good ones for Theo.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

We will have our difference - so let me voice mine. Mirabelli was a waste of roaster spot for long time - he was there just because Tek refused to catch Wakefield. Since then almost all Sox catchers caught him successfully including V-Mart. That should put an end to the myth that only Belli can catch Wake.

 

What in f***'s name...?

 

Meridith was virtually unhittable for a long stretch of time. Yeah I know diff. league etc. Bard could have been a better back-up than what we had.

 

NL WEST, PETCO PARK???

 

Arroyo is no Cy-Yound winner but we could have used him really in 2006 when all no names were pitching for us at the end of the season.

 

He got worse upon moving to the NL CENTRAL. I think we unloaded him at the right time.