Dice K or Clay in Game 3

[a700hitter]

Technically that might be correct, but Jon Lester won the deciding game in the 2007 World Series (only 15 starts the previous year). Josh Beckett was incredible in the 2003 postseason in only his second big league season. I don't think Matt Garza's inexperience hurt him against the Red Sox last year.

 

Those are just a couple of pitching examples from recent seasons.

I'm not saying that young pitchers never do well in the post-season. I am saying that a manager who has a choice between throwing an experienced pitcher versus an inexperienced pitcher in an elimination game would opt for the experience. It has nothing to do with games where a young guy beat an experienced guy. Would Scioscia have started Lackey in game 7 if he had Curt Schilling available? In 2007, Lester pitched game 4 to closeout a sweep. He would not even have pitched that if Wakefield had not been injured. Game 7 would have been Beckett or Schilling. In 2003, the Marlins were not facing elimination when Beckett pitched game 6.

[Keeper]

Can you give me a tangible example of experience being the reason a team won or player performed well?

 

EDIT: If experience is so important, why did John Lackey beat Livan Hernandez in Game 7 of the 2002 World Series? I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of what Hernandez accomplished in the playoffs. I realize this is just one example, and doesn't necessarily prove my point, but I'm not the one making definitive statements.

 

A wee bit confrontational, aren't we? One thing I'd like to make clear. I never said you can't be effective with little to no postseason experience. If that had been the case, I never would have nominated Buchholz to start Game 3.

 

I think that most baseball insiders would agree with me. When it comes to pitching, I'll take experience over exuberance most of the time. A veteran generally won't get too caught up in the moment and won't be overwhelmed on the big stage.

 

Here's a scenario. Two pitchers get hit hard to start a game. One is a rookie. The other is a veteran. Who is more likely to get rattled? Who is more likely to maintain his composure and gut it out?

 

That's probably not the tangible example you were looking for, but I don't really care.

[jacksonianmarch]

there have been plenty of rookies who dominated in their debuts and plenty of veterans who got rattled. I have a general rule for you. If you are good, then you will pitch well. And if you are good and a power pitcher, you will generally do better.

[yankees228]

A wee bit confrontational, aren't we? One thing I'd like to make clear. I never said you can't be effective with little to no postseason experience. If that had been the case, I never would have nominated Buchholz to start Game 3.

 

I think that most baseball insiders would agree with me. When it comes to pitching, I'll take experience over exuberance most of the time. A veteran generally won't get too caught up in the moment and won't be overwhelmed on the big stage.

 

Here's a scenario. Two pitchers get hit hard to start a game. One is a rookie. The other is a veteran. Who is more likely to get rattled? Who is more likely to maintain his composure and gut it out?

 

That's probably not the tangible example you were looking for, but I don't really care.

 

How was I being confrontational? I simply asked you a question, and provided my point of view. The fact of the matter is that all this experience stuff is nothing more than conjecture, yet people state it as if it's fact.

 

For what it's worth, Jacko hit the nail on the head.

[Christian Snyder]

Clay Bucholz (spelling?).

[Ray10]

Honestly Clay has pitched great this year.But I'm gonna have to go with experience and say Dice-K should start it.

[a700hitter]

there have been plenty of rookies who dominated in their debuts and plenty of veterans who got rattled. I have a general rule for you. If you are good' date=' then you will pitch well. And if you are good and a power pitcher, you will generally do better.[/quote']Joba or Pettitte if the Yankees face an elimination game?

[redsoxrules]

Joba or Pettitte if the Yankees face an elimination game?

 

considering that Joba has been sucking dick for 2 months that's an easy choice

[yankees228]

Joba or Pettitte if the Yankees face an elimination game?

 

That doesn't prove your point at all. I'd rather throw Chad Gaudin out there than Joba right now.

[BSN07]

Clay Bucholz (spelling?).

 

Buchholz.

 

 

No worries though. Took me forever to get it right myself

[a700hitter]

Buchholz is going tostart game 3. I don't get it. He has thrown 2 major stinkers in a row. Dice K has pitched well and he has the experience advantage.

[Spudboy]

Buchholz is going tostart game 3. I don't get it. He has thrown 2 major stinkers in a row. Dice K has pitched well and he has the experience advantage.

 

Kind of a head scratcher.

 

Either way, who knows?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Buchholz is going tostart game 3. I don't get it. He has thrown 2 major stinkers in a row. Dice K has pitched well and he has the experience advantage.

Who cares?

 

 

2 stinkers after 6 straight good outings, and 9 out of 10 good outings. The 2 stinkers being in meaningless games. O noez.

[Keeper]

Call me a flip flopper, but I might go with Dice-K now. But I guess the decision has been made already.

[a700hitter]

Who cares?

 

 

2 stinkers after 6 straight good outings, and 9 out of 10 good outings. The 2 stinkers being in meaningless games. O noez.

So, the terrible starts with all the gopher balls don't concern you at all? How will you feel if the whole season is riding on Buchholz in the first big game of his career?

[Dojji]

So' date=' the terrible starts with all the gopher balls don't concern you at all? How will you feel if the whole season is riding on Buchholz in the first big game of his career?[/quote']

 

In any scenario where that's possible, Lester and Beckett will have already spit the bit making Buchholz the least of our problems..

[example1]

In any scenario where that's possible' date=' Lester and Beckett will have already spit the bit making Buchholz the least of our problems..[/quote']

 

This is why I don't think the #3 starter is as important as the decision about who starts game #4.

[Spudboy]

In any scenario where that's possible' date=' Lester and Beckett will have already spit the bit making Buchholz the least of our problems..[/quote']

 

Is spit the bit like s*** the bed?

[a700hitter]

In any scenario where that's possible' date=' Lester and Beckett will have already spit the bit making Buchholz the least of our problems..[/quote']They would have to win game 3 to stay alive, so game 3 would be the most important game until they got to game 4.

[Gom]

I think that you should start Dice-K, because Buchholz is clearly the better pitcher.

[a700hitter]

I think that you should start Dice-K' date=' because Buchholz is clearly the better pitcher.[/quote']Please don't encourage the fools.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

So' date=' the terrible starts with all the gopher balls don't concern you at all?[/quote']

 

Not really. Is it all possible that with all the meaning taken out of the game, Buchholz lost focus and sort of snoozed through those starts? Not a new situation.

 

How will you feel if the whole season is riding on Buchholz in the first big game of his career?

 

Good.

 

He's never going to get the experience you so desire out of him if you never give him the opportunity. This could either be an elimination game or the chance to clinch a series. Buchholz has already overcome adversity in figuring it out after last season's antics. I'm fine with him.

[example1]

He's never going to get the experience you so desire out of him if you never give him the opportunity. This could either be an elimination game or the chance to clinch a series. Buchholz has already overcome adversity in figuring it out after last season's antics. I'm fine with him.

 

I think this is really the point. We all know that if the team makes a run then just about every player will be involved in some anxiety provoking situations. We will likely be relying on our least trustworthy relievers in a moment where the whole season rides on it and Chris Woodward may be asked to turn a tough double play. Thankfully, every other team's weakest players will be in similar situations too.

 

Buchholz hasn't been through that before, but we hope he is going to for years and years. This is his chance to do that and we all know his stuff is good enough for the job. He just has to execute and he will be a very formidable pitcher.

 

It is true that the season may be riding on it, but that's the reality (and beauty) of the playoffs.

[Spudboy]

I say start Tazawa.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Whats wrong with starting Buchholz game 3? So what if he had 2 bad sarts. Derek Lowe sucked all of 2004 and then ended up winning all the series clinching games in the playoffs. Regular season don't mean much now.

[Keeper]

Whats wrong with starting Buchholz game 3? So what if he had 2 bad sarts. Derek Lowe sucked all of 2004 and then ended up winning all the series clinching games in the playoffs. Regular season don't mean much now.

 

It does mean something if you intend on playing the hot hand in the postseason.

[Dojji]

Is spit the bit like s*** the bed?

 

1. Yes, it's the relatively sanitized version

 

2. if a horse you're riding manages to "spit the bit" you can no longer control his head, leading to a wild adventure you had never planned to have.

 

A point to consider: Let's say we are down 0-2 in Game 2. No matter which one of Daisuke or Buchholz we put in, we have a strong chance of needing to rely on the other one in Game 4 anyway, especially if we get stuck with the short schedule.

[a700hitter]

Whats wrong with starting Buchholz game 3? So what if he had 2 bad sarts. Derek Lowe sucked all of 2004 and then ended up winning all the series clinching games in the playoffs. Regular season don't mean much now.

Lowe didn't suck the entire 2004 season. He sucked for the last month, and he was pulled from the rotation for the playoffs. He did not start in the ALDS. He won the ALDS clincher out of the bullpen. He got his first ALCS star because Schilling was injured. He got the game 7 start because Arroyo got removed from the rotation after s***ing the bed in game 3. He got back in the rotation because of injury and he stayed in the rotation, because he had become the hot hand. Buchholz is not the hot hand right now and he is inexperienced. Pitching him instead of Dice K is not the smart move.

[Dojji]

Because Daisuke is the hot hand?

[Dipre]

Lowe didn't suck the entire 2004 season. He sucked for the last month' date=' and he was pulled from the rotation for the playoffs. He did not start in the ALDS. He won the ALDS clincher out of the bullpen. He got his first ALCS star because Schilling was injured. He got the game 7 start because Arroyo got removed from the rotation after s***ing the bed in game 3. He got back in the rotation because of injury and he stayed in the rotation, because he had become the hot hand. Buchholz is not the hot hand right now and he is inexperienced. Pitching him instead of Dice K is not the smart move.[/quote']

 

Lowe sucked the whole season.