Our SS Situation

[Dipre]

I used .OBP too. Hardy's was never that high. His highest is .343 and his career is in the low .300s.

 

Hell of a lot better than Gonzo's .295.

[PWNdroia]

Hell of a lot better than Gonzo's .295.

 

Yet, Gonzo is hitting better than him this season. We know he can hit in Boston, he's shown it well at least this year. But we don't need Gonzo; this isn't about him. This is about getting a BETTER SS, not Gonzo, not Hardy. So to even mention Gonzo in a thread about acquiring Hanley or Tulo doesn't ratify the fact that Hardy is better than either of those two names.

[Dipre]

Yet' date=' Gonzo is hitting better than him this season. We know he can hit in Boston, he's shown it well at least this year. But we don't need Gonzo; this isn't about him. This is about getting a BETTER SS, not Gonzo, not Hardy. So to even mention Gonzo in a thread about acquiring Hanley or Tulo doesn't ratify the fact that Hardy is better than either of those two names.[/quote']

 

 

Lol no he's not.

 

Stop using his numbers since coming to Boston.

[PWNdroia]

Lol no he's not.

 

Stop using his numbers since coming to Boston.

 

Why? That's all that matters to me. What he does for this team, not any other. And so far he's been great. Small sample size, but not bad at all.

[Dipre]

Why? That's all that matters to me. What he does for this team' date=' not any other. And so far he's been great. [b'] Small sample size[/b], but not bad at all.

 

Wow.

[PWNdroia]

Wow.

 

Well, his small sample size of a .290 BA does not lie.

 

But let's avert away from Gonzo. What about Hardy? How well is he doing? Not good enough for me.

 

Tulo or Hanley are the answer.

[Dojji]

Yet' date=' Gonzo is hitting better than him this season[/quote']

 

NO he isn't, unless you're silly and forget that he was a Red for part of the year too.

 

AGonz' season numbers. .239AVG/.275OBP /.355 SLG

 

Hardy's season numbers: 229 AVG/ .302OBP /.356 SLG

 

The only place you can even argue is batting average and... yeah. just don't, ok?

[Dipre]

Well' date=' his small sample size of a .290 BA does not lie.[/quote']

 

I'm gonna go ahead and say your statement is the stupidest thing i ever heard.

 

Ever.Heard.

[PWNdroia]

I'm gonna go ahead and say your statement is the stupidest thing i ever heard.

 

Ever.Heard.

 

So it's stupid because it's true?

[PWNdroia]

NO he isn't, unless you're silly and forget that he was a Red for part of the year too.

 

AGonz' season numbers. .239AVG/.275OBP /.355 SLG

 

Hardy's season numbers: 229 AVG/ .302OBP /.356 SLG

 

The only place you can even argue is batting average and... yeah. just don't, ok?

 

.OBP and hitting aren't the same thing...

 

Batting average judges hitting.

[Dojji]

So it's stupid because it's true?

 

No, it's stupid because it's really ill-informed, a bit intellectually dishonest, and professes a determination to ignore anything that doesn't support your point.

[Dojji]

.OBP and hitting aren't the same thing...

 

Batting average judges hitting.

 

Not by itself it doesn't. Batting average is one component of a whole number salad of things that "judge hitting."

 

Even by your own old-fashioned customs, such numbers as slugging average, RBI's, homers, extra base hits, etc. also come into the mix.

[PWNdroia]

It's not strangely off the charts man.

 

His OBP's really high because he sees a lot of pitches and takes a lot of walks.

 

Well, he's solid.

[Dipre]

No' date=' it's stupid because it's really ill-informed, a bit intellectually dishonest, and professes a determination to ignore anything that doesn't support your point.[/quote']

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

But for specific's' sake:

 

 

LOL BATTING AVERAGE LOL.

[Jasonbay44]

.OBP and hitting aren't the same thing...

 

Batting average judges hitting.

 

The goal of the game is to get on base, OBP shows how much a hitter gets on base. Its a better stat to use then batting average.

[PWNdroia]

No' date=' it's stupid because it's really ill-informed, a bit intellectually dishonest, and professes a determination to ignore anything that doesn't support your point.[/quote']

 

I don't see how it's inaccurate. I looked up his stats, and his BA is .295 with the Red Sox. How can this be ill-informed? Obviously I did not make up this statistic. Therefore it is true. I'm being blatantly obvious so you understand.

[Dipre]

I don't see how it's inaccurate. I looked up his stats' date=' and his BA is .295 with the Red Sox. How can this be ill-informed? Obviously I did not make up this statistic.[/quote']

 

BECAUSE IT'S THE SMALLEST SAMPLE SIZE IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.

[PWNdroia]

The goal of the game is to get on base' date=' OBP shows how much a hitter gets on base. Its a better stat to use then batting average.[/quote']

 

The goal of the game is to score runs.

 

And I never discredited OBP, all I said was BA measured how well a hitter hits, not OBP.

[Dojji]

It's intellectually dishonest because you didn't say "with the Red Sox." You said "this year."

 

Gonzalez spent part of the year with the Reds. That brings his average down -- to .239

 

You may not have made the statistic but you certainly misapplied it.

[PWNdroia]

BECAUSE IT'S THE SMALLEST SAMPLE SIZE IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.

 

Not exactly. Just about 130 at-bats, I've seen smaller sample sizes.

[Dojji]

The goal of the game is to score runs.

 

And I never discredited OBP, all I said was BA measured how well a hitter hits, not OBP.

 

That sort of depends on your definition of what it is to "hit."

 

Is it to get a lot of singles and nothing else? because that's the only time I'd ever use AVG as an end-all statistic without at least bringing slugging percentage along for the ride.

[PWNdroia]

It's intellectually dishonest because you didn't say "with the Red Sox." You said "this year."

 

Gonzalez spent part of the year with the Reds. That brings his average down -- to .239

 

You may not have made the statistic but you certainly misapplied it.

 

Sorry, I meant since he's been with us. I don't care what he did for the Reds.

[PWNdroia]

That sort of depends on your definition of what it is to "hit."

 

Is it to get a lot of singles and nothing else? because that's the only time I'd ever use AVG as an end-all statistic without at least bringing slugging percentage along for the ride.

 

Actually, I do agree with this. Every interpretation is different.

[Dojji]

Sorry' date=' I meant since he's been with us. I don't care what he did for the Reds.[/quote']

 

The rest of us care what he did with the Reds -- because it's more in line with what he did over his career than his aberrant batting average over a double handful of at bats with Boston in 2009 is.

[Dojji]

Actually' date=' I do agree with this. Every interpretation is different.[/quote']

 

What you're ignoring is that even if every interpretation is different, they're all essentially trying to do one thing when they're at the plate. And that is to extend the inning and not be out at the end of the at bat.

 

It's that part of hitting that is covered by OBP. And that's the part that makes people say OBP is much more important than batting average. OBP covers all but a handful of very fluky ways to extend an inning (minus errors of course, for obvious reasons) and the best OBP hitters are the guys who are good at either extending a rally or at least not letting it die on their watch.

[WhiskeyBreath]

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/cool_dude100/popcorn.gif

[PWNdroia]

What you're ignoring is that even if every interpretation is different, they're all essentially trying to do one thing when they're at the plate. And that is to extend the inning and not be out at the end of the at bat.

 

It's that part of hitting that is covered by OBP. And that's the part that makes people say OBP is much more important than batting average. OBP covers all but a handful of very fluky ways to extend an inning (minus errors of course, for obvious reasons) and the best OBP hitters are the guys who are good at either extending a rally or at least not letting it die on their watch.

 

I understand this, and OBP is very important to scoring runs.

 

But it doesn't record hits per at-bats. It records getting on base per at bats. There's a difference.

[Dipre]

I understand this, and OBP is very important to scoring runs.

 

But it doesn't record hits per at-bats. It records getting on base per at bats. There's a difference.

 

That means OBP encompasses Batting Average AND walks.

 

Thanks for clearing it up champ, i didn't know. /sarcasm.

[PWNdroia]

The rest of us care what he did with the Reds -- because it's more in line with what he did over his career than his aberrant batting average over a double handful of at bats with Boston in 2009 is.

 

I know where you are coming from, but I just can't agree. He's been fine with us, not great, but not bad.

 

Why are we still talking about him though. This is about getting a "future" SS...

 

My point is neither Gonzo nor Hardy have the OBP... Hardy is better in his career, but has been bad this year. But neither will help us down the line. We need someone better. We have the money.

[PWNdroia]

That means OBP encompasses Batting Average AND walks.

 

Thanks for clearing it up champ, i didn't know. /sarcasm.

 

Exactly! It covers both (I already knew that).

 

But batting average is solely for hitting. That's what we were talking about, hitting the ball, not walks.