Alex Gonzalez= Great Deal

[Emmz]

Yeah, OBP tells a lot more than Batting Average does, and this argument started basically over someone calling Gonzo an "offensive threat" because he is hitting ".290 or something for the year". It wasn't about his defensive worth, which is very solid (but I've said Hardy isn't incompetent defensively, and is definitely a possible upgrade)

[Dojji]

Actually, Hardy is defensively better than Gonzalez.

 

Repeat: JJ Hardy is superior to Alex Gonzalez as a defender.

[Dipre]

What is it with these people that see OBP as the only valid barometer of a player's worth?

 

Mr. Crunchy makes a solid point. If the Sox are not able to get a solid replacement that is a significant upgrade, then standing pat with Gonzo is not such a bad alternative.

 

The point being about his batting average.

 

 

Is this one of your "ESL Alert" moments?

 

Are you not able to comprehend what I have TRIED to say in my posts?

 

No, it's the ESL alert that happens when you try to side with Crunchy, because in the end, no one understands what the f*** he's saying and understands it differently, so calm down, old man.

[Emmz]

Actually, Hardy is defensively better than Gonzalez.

 

Repeat: JJ Hardy is superior to Alex Gonzalez as a defender.

 

There you have it. Not to mention his previous years he's been superior offensively (in many ways) than Gonzo

[The_Destroyah]

There you have it. Not to mention his previous years he's been superior offensively (in every way) than Gonzo

 

fix'd

[Dojji]

"Superior" doesn't cover it.

 

Alex Gonzalez is a nice defensive SS. Hardy is AT WORST a better version of the same thing. That's if he DOESN'T get his swing mechanics corrected. If he does, the baseline for what he should provide in the AL East is probably Mike Lowell offensively and a strong, rangy defensive SS.

 

I wanna see what he'll do if we can get his swing corrected and he realized the significance of the Green Monster. The guy's a righthanded pull hitter. Perfect Fenway type hitter.

[Spudboy]

What is it with these people that see OBP as the only valid barometer of a player's worth?

 

Mr. Crunchy makes a solid point. If the Sox are not able to get a solid replacement that is a significant upgrade, then standing pat with Gonzo is not such a bad alternative.

 

So where have I referred to BA anywhere?

 

Please read the entire sentence.

 

Edit: BA

[Emmz]

"Superior" doesn't cover it.

 

Alex Gonzalez is a nice defensive SS. Hardy is AT WORST a better version of the same thing. That's if he DOESN'T get his swing mechanics corrected. If he does, the baseline for what he should provide in the AL East is probably Mike Lowell offensively and a strong, rangy defensive SS.

 

I wanna see what he'll do if we can get his swing corrected and he realized the significance of the Green Monster. The guy's a righthanded pull hitter. Perfect Fenway type hitter.

 

Yes, and it's most likely a fixable mechanics issue, I'd guess he gets his old swing back, and if not, it's atleast worth a try, and he's apparently an upgrade defensively, not to mention younger and has more pop (by far)

[Emmz]

fix'd

 

Thank you, and even this year in total (don't take that out of context) he's been superior than Gonzo has offensively. Yeah maybe Gonzo's been playing at a higher level with the Sox, but overall this year Hardy still has better numbers

[Dojji]

UZR/150

 

Career:

 

Gonzalez 6.4

Hardy 10.6

Hanley -6.2

Lowrie 23.7 (SSS)

 

This year:

 

Gonzalez 6.7

Hardy 7.5

Hanley 1.2

Lowrie 22.2 (SSS)

 

Lowrie was kind of a shock, to put it mildly. SSS notwithstanding, this was a guy with large defensive questions, and when he was able to take the field even this year, he repeated the same value as the 2008 sample. Above average results at 2B and 3B as well.

[The_Destroyah]

Thank you' date=' and even this year [b']in total[/b] (don't take that out of context) he's been superior than Gonzo has offensively. Yeah maybe Gonzo's been playing at a higher level with the Sox, but overall this year Hardy still has better numbers

 

I know, I was agreeing with you and then some, Hardy isnt better in many ways, he is better in every way offensively.

[Dipre]

So where have I referred to BP anywhere?

 

Please read the entire sentence.

 

Solid point means you agree with what he said. What did he say again?

[The_Destroyah]

Solid point means you agree with what he said. What did he say again?

 

he said that he agreed that having Gonzo back next year as a stopgap if we cant upgrade is acceptable IHO. when referring to Crunchy's post he never mentioned BA, he mentioned BA in a seperate post.

[Spudboy]

"If the Sox are not able to get a solid replacement that is a significant upgrade, then standing pat with Gonzo is not such a bad alternative."

 

This is the "Point" That I agree with, SLIM.

[Rdsxmbnt]

So you guys want an NL player who was a minor leaguer at one point this year (and a crappy one at that)?

[Spudboy]

he said that he agreed that having Gonzo back next year as a stopgap if we cant upgrade is acceptable IHO. when referring to Crunchy's post he never mentioned BA' date=' he mentioned BA in a seperate post.[/quote']

 

Thank you E-3.

[Dojji]

Based on the way Theo handled shortstops since Nomar I predict Orlando Cabrerra will be here next April playing for 12m a year....Omar Visquel will be 1st on the list but Minaya will sign him for the Mets for 60M over 4 years.Its no coincidence that Agons glove has given this team a better short of winning and hes hitting an amazing 290 with a little bit of power' date=' hes better than Jed Lowrie and until another guy comes along thats better I say they stick with this guy.[/quote']

 

Point by point here, because that's how bored I am.

 

1: OCab's return. I'm assuming this is some kind of attempt at humor. We have had what. a billion chances to bring OCab back to Boston? What makes you think it'll be a hit on a billion and one? Besides which, OCab's lost it as a defensive SS. His UZR/150 this year is a dismal -12.0. That's Lugo bad.

 

2: On Vizquel. I would laugh at your joke except that it hits too close to the truth.

 

3: Gonzo gives us the best chance to win, but consider who he's competing with -- NO ONE! Green is hurt. Lowrie is hurt. Lugo sucked so bad we ate his salary to get him out of town. His only real competition now is a guy who sucks worse than he does (Woodward)

 

4: How many "nots" do I have to say to get this across? Gonzo is not, not, not, not, NOT anything REMOTELY close to someone you CONSIDER counting on to sustain the level of offense he's put up so far in a Red Sox uni. And that level only looks good because of the UTTER FLAMING FUMING REEKING PILE OF SUCK we put up with before he got here.

 

5: Gonzalez is not better than Lowrie offensively. Gonzalez is not better than Lowrie defensively. The only thing Gonzalez does better than Lowrie is not have a wrist injury at the moment that limits his ability to play the field.

 

6: I wouldn't mind making Gonzo an offer if other plans fall through. But I don't touch that option with a ten foot pole. No way anyone actually pays him more than $6M in this economy. Even if we wind up needing him we can get him cheaper.

[Dipre]

he said that he agreed that having Gonzo back next year as a stopgap if we cant upgrade is acceptable IHO. when referring to Crunchy's post he never mentioned BA' date=' he mentioned BA in a seperate post.[/quote']

 

I left my crystal ball at the gym the other day.

 

Hindsight's pretty awesome.

[Emmz]

So you guys want an NL player who was a minor leaguer at one point this year (and a crappy one at that)?

 

Why don't you try and compare his stats to those of Gonzo's instead of making a statement like that. Here, I'll even help you out

 

Gonzo has a similar (Slightly higher) batting average than Hardy does through this season. While his OBP for the year may be pitiful, Gonzo's OBP is even worse, not to mention Hardy (while having a down year) still has shown more pop than Gonzo has

 

Finally, we've established that he's better in the field than Gonzo is

 

So basically, we've established that he's a better all around player than Gonzo, and not to mention, if his mechanics can be corrected, he's going to be back to being a .275-.330-25 home run type of player

[Dojji]

So you guys want an NL player who was a minor leaguer at one point this year (and a crappy one at that)?

 

what can I say? Our situation at SS is really that bad.

 

Downside of the trade is still an upgrade over Gonzo. Upside of the trade would be a middle of the order hitter at SS.

[Emmz]

Definitely, J.J. Hardy: Worth the risk

[Rdsxmbnt]

Im not arguing Gonzalez over Hardy, that's obvious because Gonzalez is a replacement level player.

 

But Hardy isn't going to come free so if you're going to invest in a SS at least make it someone good like Escobar, Drew, or just let Lowrie heal over the offseason.

[Dipre]

Im not arguing Gonzalez over Hardy, that's obvious because Gonzalez is a replacement level player.

 

But Hardy isn't going to come free so if you're going to invest in a SS at least make it someone good like Escobar, Drew, or just let Lowrie heal over the offseason.

 

Hardy's upside is enormous.

[Dojji]

The difference between Hardy, and Escobar or Drew, is exactly Hardy's down year. It will lower his asking price.

 

It would cost us bigtime prospects to score Escobar or especially stephen Drew. We might get Hardy for Delcarmen.

 

Also, Hardy and Lowrie are not mutually exclusive. Lowrie and Escobar/Drew might be but Hardy and Lowrie can work together.

[Emmz]

Lowrie isn't proven, and Hardy's past years have been much better. It's worth the risk, and Milwaukee is most likely willing to part ways with him. The payoff is worth it if we can get his prodcution of the two previous seasons, and if not, he still beats the hell out of Gonzo, and we've successfully upgraded

[Rdsxmbnt]

Hardy's upside is enormous.

 

It is? Frankly I see his upside as a .800 OPS hitter in the NL and probably less here

[Emmz]

It is? Frankly I see his upside as a .800 OPS hitter in the NL and probably less here

 

It's usually the pitchers who struggle to adapt to the American Leagues more than anything

[Dipre]

It is? Frankly I see his upside as a .800 OPS hitter in the NL and probably less here

 

His upside is a 25 HR, 90 RBI SS. Even in the AL.

[Dojji]

Because we can afford to sneer at a .800 OPS at freakin' SHORTSTOP.

 

I'll more than take a low OBP, high SLG hitter like Hardy if it comes with 20 HR's and 80 RBI's or so. Basically, the Mike Lowell package. On an above average defensive SS.

[Dipre]

Because we can afford to sneer at a .800 OPS at freakin' SHORTSTOP.

 

I'll more than take a low OBP, high SLG hitter like Hardy if it comes with 20 HR's and 80 RBI's or so. Basically, the Mike Lowell package. On an above average defensive SS.

 

Not to mention hitting in a lineup like the Red Sox's could potentially help him improve his plate discipline.