9/16 vs Angels

[yankees228]

Alright, I looked at some data, probably the same graph you're linking here. The pitch was in the strike zone. Not by much, but I won't argue the point.

 

However...

 

* That pitch was not consistently called a strike last night by that umpire. Boston pitchers threw three pitches higher than that one that were called balls.

 

* In fact, to put it bluntly, the ump was terribly inconsistent at the bottom edge of the strike zone. Looking at his calls for the whole game, it looked like he just flipped a coin when the ball was at/below the knees. "Tails? Then that one's a STEEEEEE-RIKE!"

 

* The ump did job the Angels in general. The Sox got way more pitches outside the zone called strikes than the Angels did. I'd count them, but I'm too lazy.

 

All in all, looking the data, that call was not an aberration. Bad call? Maybe. Another reason why I'd like to see pitch-calling become 100% automated. Of course, there's no way a sport as blessed with tradition as baseball will entirely dispose of the ump's pitch-calling duties. But they could just put two little LEDs inside his face mask. Red light goes on, he calls a strike. Green light goes on, he calls a ball. He still gets to do his little crowd-pleasing fist-pumping-and-yelling schtick for strikes in big situations.

 

I'm only about 25% kidding.

 

Really my last thought: whatever happened during Greenie's AB last night is totally irrelevant in the bog scheme of things. The Angels will still win the AL West. The Red Sox will still win the WC. And we'll still hose them in the ALDS .

 

EDIT: It's irrelevant not just in the bog scheme of things, but also in the big scheme of things.

 

Very good post. I completely agree.

[yankees228]

Pitch f/x is good, but not perfect.

 

Visually, looking at the at bat, the pitch was low to my eyes. I've seen worse pitches called balls, but again -- no place to put Green, you need to challenge him and trust your defenders, and above all, not nibble even a little bit. Fuentes nibbled.

 

I think you would have to admit that Pitch F/X is better than your own eyes.

 

Also, I don't think Fuentes was intentionally nibbling. He really had no control that inning from the outset. He missed by a large margin on a number of pitches.

[Beaneater]

Also' date=' I don't think Fuentes was intentionally nibbling. He really had no control that inning from the outset. He missed by a large margin on a number of pitches.[/quote']

 

Ain't that the truth. Guy didn't have it last night.

[yankees228]

What's the word on Martinez and Youkilis for tonight?

[Dojji]

I think you would have to admit that Pitch F/X is better than your own eyes.

 

Also, I don't think Fuentes was intentionally nibbling. He really had no control that inning from the outset. He missed by a large margin on a number of pitches.

 

That brings up an interesting point. You know as well as I do how an umpire can unconsciously shrink the strike zone on a wild pitcher. Fuentes did himself no favors in the sequence of events leading up to that walk.

[The_Destroyah]

That brings up an interesting point. You know as well as I do how an umpire can unconsciously shrink the strike zone on a wild pitcher. Fuentes did himself no favors in the sequence of events leading up to that walk.

 

It's the same thing that allows really good accurate pitchers the ability to expand the strike zone like Maddux used to do.

[Jasonbay44]

What's the word on Martinez and Youkilis for tonight?

 

V-Mart informed the team he can play today.

 

From rotoworld:

 

Victor Martinez, who has left the Red Sox due to a personal matter, has informed the team that he can play on Thursday.

[BoSox21]

I think the further and further back Texas is, the less likely Youkilis will play on a regular basis until the postseason

[The_Destroyah]

really I think we are just about locked in for the WC now so I dont have a problem resting some of our key players a little more frequently.

[v2freak]

Do I even need to point it out? Might as well:

 

Look' date=' you have to call a spade a spade. It was definitely a strike. This is not a question. Ball calls happen, and this was a tough one to take (for someone rooting for the other team), but unfortunately it happens. However, to say that pitch was low is just false. [b']Almost every single umpire, if not every umpire, is going to consistently call that a strike.[/b]

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/numlocation.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2009/month_09/day_16/gid_2009_09_16_anamlb_bosmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/150118.xml&batterX=090916_231149&innings=yyyyyyyyy&s_type=3&sp_type=1&h_size=700&v_size=500

 

Obviously not.

 

Source(s): Last night's game

[The_Destroyah]

look as long as he was calling that a strike fairly consistently LAST NIGHT then I dont think its that bad if he wasnt then it was a bad call, it happens, every year every team gets a similar call for or against them...

[Quinny]

holy s*** fell asleep thinking this game is done and now im pissed i missed it! oh well.....

[ORS]

Do I even need to point it out? Might as well:

 

Obviously not.

 

Source(s): Last night's game

To expand upon this, here's the calls for last night's umpire for the entire game.

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/zoneplotn.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2009/month_09/day_16/gid_2009_09_16_anamlb_bosmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/111838.xml&sp_type=1

 

I see lots of green, called balls, in the bottom of the strikezone for both teams. While his strikezone was not what the rules call for, it was consistent.

[Dojji]

To be more specific, there were 7 pitches clearly within the objective strike zone that were called balls.

 

3 Boston pitches and 4 Anaheim pitches. Pretty equal all told.

[The_Destroyah]

like I said earlier calling a round ball flying through an imaginary square is at best an imperfect science.

[redsoxrules]

at this point the Rangers have a better shot at winning their division as they play LA 6 times before the season is over

[Cocos Disciples]

Just caught the end of the replay of the game, and Sciosia literally stood in the dugout and waited until exactly when the umps were going down the tunnel, followed them while obviously talking s***.

[v2freak]

like I said earlier calling a round ball flying through an imaginary square is at best an imperfect science.

 

A remarkably good point. How long before they install holographic strike zones for pitchers and batters?

[TheKilo]

All wussies by Yaz's standards. He'd be ashamed to show his face around Fenway if he missed as many games in 3 seasons as each of these guys missed this season.

 

DWIGHT EVANSSSSS

[The_Destroyah]

A remarkably good point. How long before they install holographic strike zones for pitchers and batters?

 

lol even if that was possible it would be ridiculous and would ruin part of the competitiveness, there is nothing wrong with Umps calling the balls and strikes, its part of the game and needs to stay that way, 1) If you make a borderline pitch that has the potential to decide the game without anyone making a swing then you are taking a big gamble anyways, 2) as long as an Ump consistently makes a similar call there shouldnt be a problem 3) making an exact strikezone takes away from what makes great pitchers so amazing (look at most great pitchers, and how they had the ability to expand strike zones Maddux did this to a perfection) 4) strike zones change due to size and stance of players even if only slightly Pedroia should not have the exact same strike zone as Papi.

[Dipre]

lol even if that was possible it would be ridiculous and would ruin part of the competitiveness' date=' there is nothing wrong with Umps calling the balls and strikes, its part of the game and needs to stay that way, 1) If you make a borderline pitch that has the potential to decide the game without anyone making a swing then you are taking a big gamble anyways, 2) as long as an Ump consistently makes a similar call there shouldnt be a problem 3) making an exact strikezone takes away from what makes great pitchers so amazing (look at most great pitchers, and how they had the ability to expand strike zones Maddux did this to a perfection)[b'] 4) strike zones change due to size and stance of players even if only slightly Pedroia should not have the exact same strike zone as Papi[/b].

 

This point, in particular, is debatable, if computerized, the strike zone would obviously adjust to the hitter's size.

[The_Destroyah]

This point' date=' in particular, is debatable, if computerized, the strike zone would obviously adjust to the hitter's size.[/quote']

 

okay but I do think any type of exact strike zone does take away from part of the game, I dont mind limited replay and such but that would be too far and would honestly hurt the game IMO

[yankees228]

To expand upon this, here's the calls for last night's umpire for the entire game.

 

http://brooksbaseball.net/pfx/zoneplotn.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2009/month_09/day_16/gid_2009_09_16_anamlb_bosmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/111838.xml&sp_type=1

 

I see lots of green, called balls, in the bottom of the strikezone for both teams. While his strikezone was not what the rules call for, it was consistent.

 

How is that consistent? If anything it's awful. He called pitches that were lower than the one to Green strikes. I understand that he called similar pitches low during the game, but he also called a lot of them strikes. I agree, his call in the ninth inning was not an anomaly, but he wasn't consistently calling that pitch a ball.

[ORS]

How is that consistent? If anything it's awful. He called pitches that were lower than the one to Green strikes. I understand that he called similar pitches low during the game' date=' but he also called a lot of them strikes. I agree, his call in the ninth inning was not an anomaly, but he wasn't consistently calling that pitch a ball.[/quote']

I think you are not allowing consideration for something elemental to this discussion. Umpires are human beings. I would expect no human being to have a clear diving line at the lower end of the strikezone where everything north was a strike and everything south was a ball. I'd expect a 50/50 zone, which is the case here about 3" above the actual bottomo of the zone.

[a700hitter]

Two nights in a row. Jeeez!

[Dojji]

Why the heck did you top this thread in the middle of the game ORS?

[yankees228]

I think you are not allowing consideration for something elemental to this discussion. Umpires are human beings. I would expect no human being to have a clear diving line at the lower end of the strikezone where everything north was a strike and everything south was a ball. I'd expect a 50/50 zone' date=' which is the case here about 3" above the actual bottomo of the zone.[/quote']

 

I guess that's fair, but I don't think you can call the umpire consistent. If he's consistent, for the most part, he is either going to call the low strike or not.

[yankees228]

Why the heck did you top this thread in the middle of the game ORS?

 

Is it really a big deal? It was an ongoing discussion.

[Dojji]

Yeah, but I'm not the only one who got the two currently topped gamethread mixed up.

 

There's just better times for this particular ongoing discussion. Like when we're not all using the current, other gamethread.

 

If it's worth revisiting after the game, start a thread in another forum.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

lock plz