Youkilis as a defensive 3B

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't even know what to say to the Dice-K/Lowell to the Mariners thing.

[Dipre]

I would be nervous about Lowell as a full time 3B' date=' which is what you're asking. I'd be more concerned about the chance of a breakdown than the chance of poor performance when healthy though. [b']those who enjoy baiting me might insist otherwise, but that's not really much different from how I felt about him last year. [/b]

 

Attention whoring at its finest.

 

Do you often judge a player's ability from his performance in a single game?

 

Do you often make retarded assumptions knowing fully well it was an EXAMPLE of how limited Lowell's range has become?

[example1]

I don't even know what to say to the Dice-K/Lowell to the Mariners thing.

 

Clearly... thanks for that contribution.

 

It seems pretty far fetched to me, but it is related to this topic vis-a-vis Youks moving to 3rd when the Sox acquire Lou Gehrig to play 1B.

[a700hitter]

Clearly... thanks for that contribution.

 

It seems pretty far fetched to me, but it is related to this topic vis-a-vis Youks moving to 3rd when the Sox acquire Lou Gehrig to play 1B.

I think Lowell moves better than Lou Gehrig.

[Dojji]

You'd be amazed what they can do with robotics these days.

[Keeper]

I'd rather not see Youkilis at 3B long-term for the simplistic reason that he is so gifted defensively at first. But it's a lot easier to acquire a power bat that plays first as opposed to the third so seeing as Youkilis plays a solid enough third base' date=' the answer really depends on who's playing first long-term. For example if the team acquires Adrian, it would be an absolute pleasure to have Youkilis at third.[/quote']

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[example1]

One more thing about the BOS-SEA discussions re: Felix (then I'm done until the offseason)...

 

I don't think there's any way the Sox can let him get to free agency. I think it is imparative that he be signed longterm before the Yankees can get their hands on him. CC + Felix for 5 years = certain 2nd place. Aggressively pursuing him would pay off by keeping him from inevitably ending up in NY.

[BSN07]

One more thing about the BOS-SEA discussions re: Felix (then I'm done until the offseason)...

 

I don't think there's any way the Sox can let him get to free agency. I think it is imparative that he be signed longterm before the Yankees can get their hands on him. CC + Felix for 5 years = certain 2nd place. Aggressively pursuing him would pay off by keeping him from inevitably ending up in NY.

 

Agreed. Felix in NY would be horrible.

[SoxSport]

I'm not concerned about Youks at 3B or 1B. He can play both competently.

 

I'm also not concerned about VMart, because clearly he is now the no.1 catcher. Whether Tek's option gets picked up next year is the question.

 

What does concerns me is whether Ortiz is a viable DH anymore. That's a bigger question which the FO has to deal with. They can't have another season with a .225 hitting DH.

[BoSox21]

What does concerns me is whether Ortiz is a viable DH anymore. That's a bigger question which the FO has to deal with. They can't have another season with a .225 hitting DH.

 

Would you trade Ortiz for Carlos Pena straight up?

[CrespoBlows]

Would you trade Ortiz for Carlos Pena straight up?

 

Yes.

[BoSox21]

not really the guy I'm trying to draw into a contradiction...but thanks

[jacksonianmarch]

Would you trade Ortiz for Carlos Pena straight up?

 

Pena also has 37 homers and 100 RBI to go along with a higher OBP and a much better defender.

[BoSox21]

Pena also has 37 homers and 100 RBI to go along with a higher OBP and a much better defender.

 

They've been pretty comparible numbers-wise since June 1st. And my entire point is to refute his "They can't have another season with a .225 hitting DH." comment since Pena hit .227 this season.

[Dojji]

Just shows how useless batting average really is.

[example1]

They've been pretty comparible numbers-wise since June 1st. And my entire point is to refute his "They can't have another season with a .225 hitting DH." comment since Pena hit .227 this season.

 

2009 WARP:

 

Pena: 3.2

Ortiz: 0.6

 

 

My preference would be neither, honestly.

[Spudboy]

Would you trade Ortiz for Carlos Pena straight up?

 

Yes.

 

Pena can actually play 1st. Kotchman is then expendable. A drop-offf in D but a roster spot is opened up and we would see more production at DH.

[Spudboy]

2009 WARP:

 

Pena: 3.2

Ortiz: 0.6

 

 

My preference would be neither, honestly.

 

Hahaha!

 

True.

[Dipre]

2009 WARP:

 

Pena: 3.2

Ortiz: 0.6

 

 

My preference would be neither, honestly.

 

You keep missing the "Since June 1st part".

 

And if you wouldn't take Pena strictly as a DH you have to be smoking crack.

 

Bosox21's point was that it's stupid to judge performance by BA, because it's a s***** stat.

 

Anyone who says "Well i'll take Pena" is only further demonstrating his point.

[Dipre]

Just shows how useless batting average really is.

 

THIS.

[SCM33]

Man I wish they had just kept Laroche.

 

Next year they could have had (with this years current stats):

1B Laroche .272/.353/.482/.834 OPS 21Homers and 61RBI, rotating between 1B and DH

3B Youkilis .311/.417/.563/.980 OPS 24Homers and 83RBI, rotating between 1B, 3B

C Vmart .294/.376/.477.852 OPS 21Homers and 92RBI, rotating between C, 1B, DH

DH Lowell .296/.337/.503/.840 OPS 17Homers and 69RBI, Platoon role seeing time at 3B, and even 1B.

DH Ortiz .225/.317/.438/.754 OPS 23Homers and 80RBI, Platoon role

 

Laroche has been doing damage since his trade out of PIT.

[CrespoBlows]

He's also been playing everyday, but I agree he is a better option than Kotchman.

[Dojji]

Man I wish they had just kept Laroche.

 

Next year they could have had (with this years current stats):

1B Laroche .272/.353/.482/.834 OPS 21Homers and 61RBI, rotating between 1B and DH

3B Youkilis .311/.417/.563/.980 OPS 24Homers and 83RBI, rotating between 1B, 3B

C Vmart .294/.376/.477.852 OPS 21Homers and 92RBI, rotating between C, 1B, DH

DH Lowell .296/.337/.503/.840 OPS 17Homers and 69RBI, Platoon role seeing time at 3B, and even 1B.

DH Ortiz .225/.317/.438/.754 OPS 23Homers and 80RBI, Platoon role

 

Laroche has been doing damage since his trade out of PIT.

 

LaRoche is a free agent this offseason.

[RWTP24]

I love Youk as a ball player, but i would much rather see him at 1B full time. He is great to have for a back up at 3B, but the Sox need to find a long term 3B after Lowell.

[TheMino007]

Both Youkilis and Lowell declined in their defensive play at 3rd this year. Lowell's decline was drastic and obvious to the eye, and the numbers bear this out (8.0, 15.6, -9.8 UZR/150s in the last three years). The decline certainly has something to do with his hip surgery the past offseason, as the drop in UZR was entirely due to decreasing range. He seemed to both get better as the season went on, and as he got more rest at the end of the season, so there is hope that his defense could improve relative to last year's if he continues to recover, though he will be a year older, and improvement from -9.8 will still yield a bad defensive 3b performance from Lowell. Youkilis, on the other hand, didn't decline nearly as drastically as Lowell did. At 1b, UZR actually has him increasing in performance relative to 2008 (10.3, 4.0, 7.8 UZR/150s the last three years) largely because he was more surehanded (a small increase in RngR, a larger increase in DPR and ErrR). Youkilis declined at 3b (6.9, 22.6, -3.7) to a level which was still better than Lowell, but still disappointing. Again, his decrease was due to decreasing range (0.8, 4.6, -2.8 RngR the last three years).Fielding numbers are notoriously subject to sample size/individual interpretation, and some people really only like to look at them over three season blocks. However, the numbers match my own observations that Youkilis wasn't as good at 3rd this year, while looking fine at 1st. If there is a decline, it could be due to bad luck (in which case he'll be good at 3rd again next year), declining skills (he won't, though I don't really have an explanation as to why a player of Youkilis' age declined so drastically in one year), or some other factor. He might also improve at one position by playing there more regularly, since he split time almost equally between 1st and 3rd this year. Is Youkilis' decline at 3rd real, and if so, does the benefit of having him at a more valuable defensive position outweigh the loss in defense? If you think it's real, does he continue to decline next year, or does he have a bit of a bounceback? Should the team be giving up defense for offense in the first place? Most importantly, should the team really consider moving Youkilis to 3rd full-time and going after a 1bman, or should they instead go after a 3bman, and use Youkilis more as he was used in 2008 (occasional games at 3rd to give the 3bman days off)? Should the Sox just stick with Youk at 1st, and sign somone like Figgins or god forbid someone like Adrian Beltre to play 3rdbase? Could the Sox then sign a big bat and put them at the DH spot, pretty much ceasing Ortiz's AB's next year? Can Lowell be traded for something worthwhile or should we simply hang onto him for the last year of his contract?

[Dojji]

I'd like to make two points

 

1: Please break up that unreadable wall of text with some paragraph breaks.

 

2: There's a difference between a bad year and a decline. This was a bad year.