8/20 @ Toronto

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

The man has all the passion of a 10.00 bronx whore turning trix the night before rent is due.

thats half the problem, his image of a robot.

 

Completely and utterly meaningless in every sense of the word.

 

the other issues arise from the man not playing as if he were a track star.

thats the other half of his image problem, hes a ****.

 

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

 

I dont give a s*** what his name is, i root for the name on the front, not the back.

He is a disappointment, he was a disappointment wherever he's played and this isnt debatable.

 

Maybe he's a letdown for people that were expecting some five-tool, base-stealing, doubles swatter with .350 batting average. In other words, it sounds like your expectations were a little off.

 

All i care about as far as this cheese dick is concerned is what he can do for us from here on out.

His 45rbi dont cut it in the 5 hole so whats the argument about?

 

RBI is an insult to intelligence.

 

Theres a thread here to DFA Ortiz and hes got 25 more RBI in his worst season ever.

DFA Ortiz but Drew is God? Do you guys jerk off with sandpaper mittens too?

 

I'm not calling for Ortiz to be DFA'd.

 

s***, evidently I missed out on the glue huffing session that occured here recently.

In any event and in all honesty and sincerity Drew needs to get focused on bringing us to the playoffs on his back. we cant afford his candy ass efforts down the stretch, we cant afford his days off and we need his f***ing bat more than ever and thats a horrifying feeling for us who have watched this guy get tossed around by perennial contenders his entire career.

StLouis LA and Atlanta all let him walk without thinking twice.

 

St. Louis was run by a prototypical old baseball guy who put no stock in plate discipline and preferred mere wisdom.

 

He left Atlanta as a free agent to sign a huge deal with the Dodgers. He opted out of the LA deal to sign with Boston. He became too expensive for each of those teams.

 

Aint it strange to see all these genious GM's passing on a talent like Drew?

 

Only one of them every truly 'passed' on him, and that was to acquire more pitching.

[rhet]

Except they aren't. The guys that get hits with runners in scoring position... the runners just happened to be on base.

 

You are arguing a non sequitur. BA with RISP is a rate that is not dependent on how many times a player gets up with runners on base. You are confusing it with RBI totals, which is not a rate, but an accumulation.

 

Nobody is saying Drew is responsible for putting other guys on base. It's what he does when they are on base that is the problem. Most guys knock them in at a better rate than Drew. That is a fact.

[rhet]

RBI is an insult to intelligence.

 

LOL.

 

It's a stat. A legit stat. Just like 20 other legit stats.

 

And like most stats, it has many dependent variables. And it shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum.

 

The only thing insulting to intelligence is flushing it totally.

[redsoxrules]

You are arguing a non sequitur. BA with RISP is a rate that is not dependent on how many times a player gets up with runners on base. You are confusing it with RBI totals, which is not a rate, but an accumulation.

 

Nobody is saying Drew is responsible for putting other guys on base. It's what he does when they are on base that is the problem. Most guys knock them in at a better rate than Drew. That is a fact.

 

FACT : JD OVER HIS CAREER HAS BEEN GOOD WITH RISP

FACT: EVERY MLB PLAYER HAS AT TIME BEEN AWFULL WITH RISP NOT JUST JD

FACT: JD HAD BIG HITS IN 2007 & 2008 POSTSEASON

[TheKilo]

Everyone's simply arguing past each other at this point.

 

Rhet, who would you rather have in RF than Drew?

[redsoxrules]

2008 : JD OPS AT 979 WITH RISP better than Manny just behind Ortiz and Youk

 

yeah he's f***ing awfull with RISP

[Dojji]

JD Drew doesn't even begin to deserve the bad rap he gets from a certain subset of the fanbase

[TheKilo]

The "who would you rather have in RF" always seems to stop them in their tracks.

[a700hitter]

Okay, my ******** meter just exploded.

 

YOU brought up Yaz as a rebuttal to me stating that Drew has only had one season here that anyone paying a sufficient amount of attention could call injury-plagued. You did this, presumably, no likely, as a reference to how much of gritty dirtdog Yaz was, and how much of a non-gritty softie Drew is. Though I'm 100% sure you'll deny this.

 

I went on wonder how you felt about Trot Nixon's (completely matches the aforementioned dirtdog mentality) latter years in Boston, and if J.D. Drew has durability issues, what Trot Nixon's 04, 05, and 06 would register as. Conveniently, and somewhat expectedly, you dumped out and just said 'DATS EERELIVINT', leading me to believe that you'd hate to label the TUFFGLUTCHGRIT posterboy and favorite of many monumentally stupid pinkhat fans (no, that's not directed at anyone in particular, so don't even try it) as injury prone, while being all too happy to look for a way to slag Drew and call him unreliable, because he doesn't play like a tuff guy. Blamestorming 101. Once again, I'm positive that you'll shoot all this down and cook up an even more asinine post.

 

Quite obviously, you couldn't be troubled to brainstorm about why bringing up a guy who played 40 f***ING YEARS AGO could possibly be irrelevant to Drew's so-called injury plagues, so I think your issuing of ownage has been nullified here. Not that the term was really properly used in the first place.

Lots of ranting and really not one coherent point. There's really nothing here to respond to. Talk about ********.

 

His durability is a concern now? Why' date=' because he's played 112 of a possible 120 games this year, played in 150 games in EVERY season from 04-07, and had that one wrist injury in 2008 that kept out two months? That suddenly elevates him to oft-injured, unreliable pariah status? Real smooth. I think you have 'durability issues' and 'performance issues' scrambled.[/quote']

He also had knee surgery in the 2007 offseason. As players get older, durability becomes an issue,. They start to break down. He had two major injuries in two seasons. Ownage still in place.

You also completely failed to notice that 'undurable chump' was my way of making fun of your allegations by making up words to reflect your feelings. So that is also fairly amusing' date=' and makes your declaration of owning me that much more hilarious.[/quote']An admission that you put words in my mouth. Those words reflect your feelings regarding my opinions. Those words don't reflect my feelings. Owned yet again. I'm taking you too school today little boy.

[rhet]

Rhet' date=' who would you rather have in RF than Drew?[/quote']

 

Off the top of my head, Hawpe, Werth, Ethier, Justin Upton, Markakis, Pence, Ichiro, Abreu, Swisher, Choo, Cruz...

[rhet]

yeah he's f***ing awfull with RISP

 

Yeah, he is.

.179 with RISP.

[rhet]

The "who would you rather have in RF" always seems to stop them in their tracks.

 

Not always.

[Cocos Disciples]

Off the top of my head' date=' Hawpe, Werth, Ethier, Justin Upton, Markakis, Pence, Ichiro, Abreu, Swisher, Choo, Cruz...[/quote']

 

Yeah let's trade for Justin Upton. Problem solved!

[example1]

Sigh... Swisher?

 

What an unexciting discussion.

 

What to make of JD Drew. Every time he's at the plate or in the field it is obvious that he is a Sox-type player. He has a great swing and a great eye. He's a good fielder.

 

He's also very expensive and doesn't play as much or as intensely as Sox fans would like for a marquee player.

 

He's not a marquee player. He's a role player on a good team. Unfortunately, he's expensive--more expensive than a role player on the Sox should be.

 

He hasn't developed into the middle-of-the-order bat the Sox tried to purchase, but he is a great hitter lower in the order in a very good lineup.

 

He's nothing but gray area. He's not great, he's not horrible. You have to be able to tolerate some middle ground to be able to appreciate what he contributes. According to the discussion above, some people can accept gray others need black and white.

[CrespoBlows]

People who de-value all stats in favor of simple on-base percentage are missing a chromosome.

 

Well, OBP is a very important statistic, but to say that we are devaluing ALL other stats in favor of it is completely dishonest.

[rhet]

Well' date=' OBP is a very important statistic, but to say that we are devaluing ALL other stats in favor of it is completely dishonest.[/quote']

 

What's dishonest is looking at Drew's performance as anything more than mediocre.

[CrespoBlows]

What's dishonest is looking at Drew's performance as anything more than mediocre.

 

You need to start making a case that has other standards, rather than your arbitrary definition of "passion."

[CrespoBlows]

http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2007-w42/img.31331_t.jpg

 

UNCLUTCH

[rhet]

You need to start making a case that has other standards' date=' rather than your arbitrary definition of "passion."[/quote']

 

I didn't define passion, arbitrary or not. My case has been focussed mostly on his ability to produce runs for the team.

[Mr Crunchy]

5 tool? I would be happy with 2 on an every day basis.

Being a **** means he doesnt play every day, the man is a walking estrogen tablet.

I bet his tits are bigger than my wifes.

 

StLouis, Atlanta and LA all let him walk away as playoff contenders,lets not get into semantics.

they didnt want him period bottom line end of story and these are solid organizations not to be confused with Miami and Kansas City. Although Atlanta has fallen from the scene StLouis and LA are serious contenders today and StLouis was then.

They let this phenom walk with no counter offers and no worries.

You say he was too expensive for LA yet they signed .220 hitting Andruw Jones for more money and just reupped Manny for 45M more?

Frank McCourt may have money issues today and his nephew is going to jail for billing out scab labor at journeymans wages but he aint worried about his next dime, trust me, his financial statements are in my desk and I have met the guy several times before he bought the Dodgers..

His money makes John Henry look like the cup holder for the Salvation Army.

Heres where you lose me

RBI are an insult to our intelligence?....

ive never heard it put that and i never heard the word clutch be refered to as meaningless and irrelevent. I would suspect the rest of the baseball world would agree.

these guys arent robots,inspite of their appearence, they do feel pressure.

I love arguing baseball so I'll play until my MIS department shuts me out for the day.

You can have your walks and your OBP, myself and 30 other GM's prefer 30Hr 100rbi seasons.

When Billy Bean puts together a winning program then I'll pay attention to the other ********.

Do you know of any other team in Baseball that offered JD Drew a contract after he left 12M on the table in Los Angeles? I dont and no one ever tried to drive the price up and Drew never sought another team out.

I do believe the signing of JD Drew was instigated by Borass to give us an inside track to DiceK.

If Im correct then I dont mind the move since every single expert said DiceK was the best avaiable pitcher on the market that offseason and Drew was approaching his prime years and had under achieved since he pulled an Elway and told Philly to f*** off as a #1 draft pick

I didnt like him but thought hed be productive in what was at the time the best O in the game.

Now play with me here if you would.

I want civil discourse and mean no disrespect as we're after the same thing I think.

 

Have you ever have a dinner at home with all the relatives and the extended family?

Im half irish and half sicilian so in my house all the adults are at the big boy table but there arent enuff chairs for all of them.

So we take the crazy aunt who pisses herself, the uncle who drinks 2 qts of whiskey and then goes out to get another half gallon and later at night he brings in an arseral of weapons he wants to show your kids ,the crazy aunts illegitimate son who is a spoiled brat and survived by giving handjobs to the older Gay neighbor who was his Cub Scout leader and inherited his millions after the aids virus took him from his career as an architecht in Soho and cousin Marias husband Jack, who is perpetually unemployed but just bought an Armani suit and showed up in a Mercedes SUV and of course all the children aged 3-16.

The 2nd crowd goes out onto the porch to eat in the table your grandfather used to beat Arthur Breslin with during the McLain McLaughlin wars of the 60s.....

Now if this were a GM's meeting where would Theo sit and what character would he be.

If this were a table of ballplayers where would Drew sit and what character would he be.

 

I been doing this analogy for 20 years while transplanting players and Gm's so please humor me.

its an August Friday and Im ball deep in paper work and may not get to respond but I promise a return to this arena at some point this evening to get your feelings on this matter and maybe what possess's you to think that RBI and Cluth hitting are meaningless in your eyes.

[rhet]

UNCLUTCH

 

Blind squirrel theory. The man has more than 5,000 plate appearances, so there is a statistically significant sample of events to evaluate him. Pointing to outliers like his playoff home run or last night's game proves nothing.

[CrespoBlows]

I didn't define passion' date=' arbitrary or not. My case has been focussed mostly on his ability to produce runs for the team.[/quote']

 

What is a mediocre player in your mind?

[yankees228]

Billy Beane's five playoff appearances, four division championships, and two one hundred win seasons aren't enough of a "winning program" for you Crunchy?

[CrespoBlows]

Blind squirrel theory. The man has more than 5' date='000 plate appearances, so there is a statistically significant sample of events to evaluate him. Pointing to outliers like his playoff home run or last night's game proves nothing.[/quote']

 

Yeah, like his career .302 EQA, his career .390 OBP, or the fact that he's 73rd all time in OPS. Those numbers tie him with Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, and Eddie Matthews.

[CrespoBlows]

5 tool? I would be happy with 2 on an every day basis.

Being a **** means he doesnt play every day, the man is a walking estrogen tablet.

I bet his tits are bigger than my wifes.

 

StLouis, Atlanta and LA all let him walk away as playoff contenders,lets not get into semantics.

they didnt want him period bottom line end of story and these are solid organizations not to be confused with Miami and Kansas City. Although Atlanta has fallen from the scene StLouis and LA are serious contenders today and StLouis was then.

They let this phenom walk with no counter offers and no worries.

You say he was too expensive for LA yet they signed .220 hitting Andruw Jones for more money and just reupped Manny for 45M more?

Frank McCourt may have money issues today and his nephew is going to jail for billing out scab labor at journeymans wages but he aint worried about his next dime, trust me, his financial statements are in my desk and I have met the guy several times before he bought the Dodgers..

His money makes John Henry look like the cup holder for the Salvation Army.

Heres where you lose me

RBI are an insult to our intelligence?....

ive never heard it put that and i never heard the word clutch be refered to as meaningless and irrelevent. I would suspect the rest of the baseball world would agree.

these guys arent robots,inspite of their appearence, they do feel pressure.

I love arguing baseball so I'll play until my MIS department shuts me out for the day.

You can have your walks and your OBP, myself and 30 other GM's prefer 30Hr 100rbi seasons.

When Billy Bean puts together a winning program then I'll pay attention to the other ********.

Do you know of any other team in Baseball that offered JD Drew a contract after he left 12M on the table in Los Angeles? I dont and no one ever tried to drive the price up and Drew never sought another team out.

I do believe the signing of JD Drew was instigated by Borass to give us an inside track to DiceK.

If Im correct then I dont mind the move since every single expert said DiceK was the best avaiable pitcher on the market that offseason and Drew was approaching his prime years and had under achieved since he pulled an Elway and told Philly to f*** off as a #1 draft pick

I didnt like him but thought hed be productive in what was at the time the best O in the game.

Now play with me here if you would.

I want civil discourse and mean no disrespect as we're after the same thing I think.

 

Have you ever have a dinner at home with all the relatives and the extended family?

Im half irish and half sicilian so in my house all the adults are at the big boy table but there arent enuff chairs for all of them.

So we take the crazy aunt who pisses herself, the uncle who drinks 2 qts of whiskey and then goes out to get another half gallon and later at night he brings in an arseral of weapons he wants to show your kids ,the crazy aunts illegitimate son who is a spoiled brat and survived by giving handjobs to the older Gay neighbor who was his Cub Scout leader and inherited his millions after the aids virus took him from his career as an architecht in Soho and cousin Marias husband Jack, who is perpetually unemployed but just bought an Armani suit and showed up in a Mercedes SUV and of course all the children aged 3-16.

The 2nd crowd goes out onto the porch to eat in the table your grandfather used to beat Arthur Breslin with during the McLain McLaughlin wars of the 60s.....

Now if this were a GM's meeting where would Theo sit and what character would he be.

If this were a table of ballplayers where would Drew sit and what character would he be.

 

I been doing this analogy for 20 years while transplanting players and Gm's so please humor me.

its an August Friday and Im ball deep in paper work and may not get to respond but I promise a return to this arena at some point this evening to get your feelings on this matter and maybe what possess's you to think that RBI and Cluth hitting are meaningless in your eyes.

 

Have you read Moneyball?

[yankees228]

Have you read Moneyball?

 

I love how a discussion about something like OBP is always countered by some kind of Billy Beane or Moneyball insult.

[rhet]

Yeah' date=' like his career .302 EQA, his career .390 OBP, or the fact that he's 73rd all time in OPS. Those numbers tie him with Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, and Eddie Matthews.[/quote']

 

Here we ago again with OBP. Look, Nick Johnson has a higher career OBP than Drew. So don't start making ridiculous comparisons with Hall of Famers like McCovey and Matthews. Christ, the guy has made ONE all star team in 12 years!

 

The guy doesn't produce runs. Period. What else is there to say?

[schillingouttheks]

lol. The Drew bashers will never stop.

 

Without JD Drew on this team, there is no 2008 ALCS appearance, nor 2007 World Series championship. Period. If you're only going to scratch the surface on why we should dislike JD Drew, then I will only scratch the surface of the enormous depth of evidence that supports a direct rebuttal to your argument.

[redsoxrules]

Yeah, he is.

.179 with RISP.

 

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE

 

whats his career RISP? I f***ing bet you wont answer that one because you just point out the bad

[rhet]

I love how a discussion about something like OBP is always countered by some kind of Billy Beane or Moneyball insult.

 

Moneyball is a dated publication. Even Bill James has softened his negative proclamations about clutch hitting.