Red Sox Re-Acquire Alex Gonzalez

[TheKilo]

So you contend we should've kept a Green/Woodward tandem instead of a Gonzales/Green one?

 

I contend that it makes no difference, and that Lowrie is better than all of them

[Dipre]

I contend that it makes no difference' date=' and that Lowrie is better than all of them[/quote']

 

Ok then let's play Lowrie.

 

Oh wait, Lowrie CAN'T play because he's INJURED.

[TheKilo]

But he'll be back in two weeks.

[BSN07]

But he'll be back in two weeks.

 

Yes he will be back in a couple weeks. But will he be healthy, or will the team get what they have gotten all year from him?

 

I am all for hoping Lowrie comes back healthy and takes over the SS spot. But there's no guarantee. And getting Gonzalez as an insurance in case Lowrie has limp wrist the rest of the year is a good move.

 

In fact the whole "maybe Lowrie comes back healthy" is probably the reason they didn't bring in someone other the Gonzalez, who will be gone at the end of the season. Lowrie could be the reason the Sox haven't moved on a better SS.

 

Maybe this holding out hope for him is actually hurting the team:dunno:

[Dipre]

Yes he will be back in a couple weeks. But will he be healthy, or will the team get what they have gotten all year from him?

 

I am all for hoping Lowrie comes back healthy and takes over the SS spot. But there's no guarantee. And getting Gonzalez as an insurance in case Lowrie has limp wrist the rest of the year is a good move.

 

In fact the whole "maybe Lowrie comes back healthy" is probably the reason they didn't bring in someone other the Gonzalez, who will be gone at the end of the season. Lowrie could be the reason the Sox haven't moved on a better SS.

 

Maybe this holding out hope for him is actually hurting the team:dunno:

 

Exactly my line of thinking.

 

Not to mention "waiting for Lowrie" has already bitten this team in the ass HARD.

[Spudboy]

Lowrey is done for the year. He may be back on the field but no sane person should expect any more offensive production form him than what he has shown to date. I hope he can strengthen his wrist during the off season and come to spring training ready to play.

 

Gonzalez is a stopgap measure. He is clearly better than Woodward and offers no upgrade over Green offensively. He is here to add depth at middle infield. The Sox are going backwards, and have been since before the all star break. Gonzalez will have little bearing on how the season plays out, nor would any of the likely alternatives.

 

Taken in that context, I'm ok with the move.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I guess the bigger question is, why are we trying to upgrade our defense when our problem is scoring runs?

 

We've lost 17 games since the AS break. In those losses, 4 times we have scored 4 or more runs, and 11 times we have been held to 2 or fewer.

 

 

So who gives a f*** about WHY they picked up Alex Gonzalez? If he can't help us manufacture runs, he isn't improving our chances of winning.

 

Take a lineup that didn't score for 30 innings and replace a marginal bat with a piss poor one? It doesn't matter how you slice it, that is a bad strategy.

Because there aren't any useful offensive shortstops out there at this point in time. If you're having trouble scoring runs, and don't have any good means of fixing that at the moment, why not increase your run prevention cause?

 

We sacrificed just about nothing to get Gonzalez.

[cobra24]

Ok, i was at the Dodgers vs Cards games the last two night and it got me thinking. Did we give away the better SS (lugo) of the 2 we have right now or is the NL helping his numbers? i believe he is hitting way over .300 and playing some alright D.

[Dipre]

Ok' date=' i was at the Dodgers vs Cards games the last two night and it got me thinking. Did we give away the better SS (lugo) of the 2 we have right now or is the NL helping his numbers? i believe he is hitting way over .300 and [b']playing some alright D[/b].

 

That is a lie.

[example1]

That is a lie.

 

I don't know how you usually use this word, but to me a lie usually has to be intentional. It only irritates me because I want to reserve the use of the word "lie" for when someone knowingly presents information they know to be wrong. It requires not only being wrong, but also the subjective act of knowing you are wrong when making a claim, in an effort to convince others that the truth is not true, or that what is not true is true...

 

Thinking that lugo may have been playing alright D is not only a subjective claim, but something that is fuzzy even when measured quantitatively.

 

Just saying, it's a bit inflamatory to impune someone's integrity like that.

 

Otherwise, Lugo sucks.

[CrespoBlows]

Lugo's been playing excellent defense with the Cardinals.

[The_Destroyah]

Hasnt Lugo been playing 2B alot?

[Dipre]

Hasnt Lugo been playing 2B alot?

 

Exactly.

 

He hasn't been playing SS so much.

 

And another thing, this is why you can't always trust metrics.

 

Lugo hasn't been looking good at SS in St. Louis.

 

If LaRussa can see it, and the metrics can, i'll go with LaRussa.

[Dipre]

I don't know how you usually use this word' date=' but to me a lie usually has to be intentional. It only irritates me because I want to reserve the use of the word "lie" for when someone knowingly presents information they know to be wrong. It requires not only being wrong, but also the subjective act of [i']knowing[/i] you are wrong when making a claim, in an effort to convince others that the truth is not true, or that what is not true is true...

 

Thinking that lugo may have been playing alright D is not only a subjective claim, but something that is fuzzy even when measured quantitatively.

 

Just saying, it's a bit inflamatory to impune someone's integrity like that.

 

Otherwise, Lugo sucks.

 

Lol i didn't mean it in an inflammatory manner, don't get your panties in a bunch, champ.

 

I said it's a lie, because Lugo hasn't been playing excellent D at SS for the Cards, he already cost them a game with an E, and Brendan Ryan is getting the starts at SS.

 

We didn't sign Lugo to play 2B, we signed him to play SS, and he can't play that adequately at the big league level anymore, and if you say he can, you're lying.

 

So stop starting s***, buddy.

[cobra24]

Lol i didn't mean it in an inflammatory manner, don't get your panties in a bunch, champ.

 

I said it's a lie, because Lugo hasn't been playing excellent D at SS for the Cards, he already cost them a game with an E, and Brendan Ryan is getting the starts at SS.

 

We didn't sign Lugo to play 2B, we signed him to play SS, and he can't play that adequately at the big league level anymore, and if you say he can, you're lying.

 

So stop starting s***, buddy.

 

hold on.... i didnt say he was playing SS. i was just saying he has been playing alright D. i know he is playing a lot of 2B, but still he is playing ok. plus he is hitting very well right now. so with that said, is those number that good because of the NL??

[Dipre]

hold on.... i didnt say he was playing SS. i was just saying he has been playing alright D. i know he is playing a lot of 2B' date=' but still he is playing ok. plus he is hitting very well right now. so with that said, is those number that good because of the NL??[/quote']

 

Offensively, yes.

 

And at 2b, he has a negative UZR and UZR/150, and that HARDLY qualifies as excellent.

 

He looks bad and the stats actually back it up.

[CrespoBlows]

Lugo's +1 FRAA at 2B, and +2 at SS with the Cardinals, but he was a atrocious defender when he was in Boston.

[SoxSport]

Lugo hasn't played that many games in St Louis at either position, so those defensive stats aren't very significant. Nor are his offensive stats, for that matter. A scout can probably tell more just watching him for a couple of games. I do think the Sox made a mistake pulling the plug on him before they had a good take on Lowrie.

[Dipre]

Lugo's +1 FRAA at 2B' date=' and +2 at SS with the Cardinals, but he was a atrocious defender when he was in Boston.[/quote']

 

Well i like UZR and UZR/150, my stats have him as below average, yours at a bit above average, but we can agree he hasn't been the savior of St. Louis and definitely not an everyday SS.

[TheKilo]

Not enough of a sample size to put any weight in those defensive metrics.

 

I like FRAA above UZR myself.

[Dipre]

Not enough of a sample size to put any weight in those defensive metrics.

 

I like FRAA above UZR myself.

 

This is true.

 

It's better to just go by what you see at this point, and he did not look comfy at SS in St. Louis at all, that's why they flipped him with Ryan again.

[jsc1973]

hold on.... i didnt say he was playing SS. i was just saying he has been playing alright D. i know he is playing a lot of 2B' date=' but still he is playing ok. plus he is hitting very well right now. so with that said, is those number that good because of the NL??[/quote']

 

When a guy is being overextended defensively, it tends to affect several parts of their game. Lugo isn't a good shortstop anymore and he knew it, and in trying to play the position in Boston, he pressed and made things worse by committing errors.

 

A shortstop who is a step slow can still be successful as a second baseman. Lugo won't be a good second baseman in the long run, but he still has a good enough bat that he can justify his defense there. He might be minus-5 or minus-10 runs at second over a full season, but he's probably minus-30 or worse at short now, and that's unacceptable. A bad shortstop can kick away that many runs.

 

I'm sure the Sox knew they could make the same move that the Cards have made, except for one thing--the Red Sox already have a second baseman. So Lugo was just taking up space on the roster.

[SCM33]

Could we please re-sign him for next year. I know, I know, he is not a great offensive player, I know his OB skills suck, but is anyone else happy to have him here, so that we at least know who is playing SS everyday? Hes been very good defensively, maybe the trade to a contender woke him up a little bit.

 

At the very least, he gives us an everyday SS who can glove it, and hit a little bit, enough where he at least solidifies the position (again). I know some people here dont like him, but honestly since he has been here, we no longer have to worry about who will be playing SS, its Gonzalez, and hes done a nice job since hes been here.

[The_Destroyah]

Could we please re-sign him for next year. I know, I know, he is not a great offensive player, I know his OB skills suck, but is anyone else happy to have him here, so that we at least know who is playing SS everyday? Hes been very good defensively, maybe the trade to a contender woke him up a little bit.

 

At the very least, he gives us an everyday SS who can glove it, and hit a little bit, enough where he at least solidifies the position (again). I know some people here dont like him, but honestly since he has been here, we no longer have to worry about who will be playing SS, its Gonzalez, and hes done a nice job since hes been here.

 

I dont have a problem keeping him here if we cant find a better option in the off season, and I dont say this because of his bat since getting here, I say it because he can be a solid defensive SS witch is the most important thing for a SS IMO, now hopefully Lowrie can come back and impress so it wont be necessary for A-Gonz's bat to be a regular blemish on the lineup card.

[Dojji]

I wouldn't mind having our SS tandem be Gonzo and Lowrie. Use them like we used Crisp and Ellsbury last year. Lowrie playing a lot of SS, but then Gonzo playing SS and Lowrie covering other positions as required.

 

Disregard, of course, if there's any chance of a certain Marlins cornerstone player coming to Boston.

[ORS]

I like FRAA above UZR myself.

Why? I don't know the specific formulae for either, as they are proprietary and unpublished, but from what I've read FRAA is a "blind" measure that doesn't consider any observations about the type of chances a player gets, whereas UZR is a "play by play" measure that, while allowing some subjectivity into the analysis, attempts to classify what type of balls a player had to field.

[BoSox21]

I wouldn't mind having our SS tandem be Gonzo and Lowrie. Use them like we used Crisp and Ellsbury last year. Lowrie playing a lot of SS' date=' but then Gonzo playing SS and Lowrie covering other positions as required.[/quote']

 

I can't support that until Lowrie shows some signs of being able to stay on the field. His wrist problems seem to be chronic and that's not a good sign for his ability to hit.

[SCM33]

I can't support that until Lowrie shows some signs of being able to stay on the field. His wrist problems seem to be chronic and that's not a good sign for his ability to hit.

 

Not sold on Lowrie. Wouldnt hate the idea of A Gonz as our starting SS next year.

[Jasonbay44]

If Gonzalez continues to play this way defensively and hits at least average, I have no problem having him back again next year.

[CrespoBlows]

Gonzalez has ZERO walks in 100 AB's with Boston. His numbers are extremely SLG% heavy, which I doubt is sustainable. Gonzalez can come in as a backup, but he shouldn't be a starter for us.