Why we shouldn't freak out just yet.

[Gom]

You have a weak spot at catcher. If you put VM there, watch your ERA jump by half a point. Varitek is an offensive black hole. You pitching is ok if Buchholz progresses, but if not you need at least one SP.

 

Also, your OF is going to need some work. Bay will be a FA, and Drew is too unreliable health-wise.

 

You need a good defensive catcher [Varitek is above average at calling games, below average with the arm], a SS, at least one OF to replace Bay [unless you resign him]. Dumping Ortiz and using VM as your primary DH, spelling your catcher and 1B. Lowell also must go...but this is assuming their contracts run out as I am not sure when they do.

[Dipre]

You have a weak spot at catcher. If you put VM there, watch your ERA jump by half a point. Varitek is an offensive black hole. You pitching is ok if Buchholz progresses, but if not you need at least one SP.

 

Also, your OF is going to need some work. Bay will be a FA, and Drew is too unreliable health-wise.

 

You need a good defensive catcher [Varitek is above average at calling games, below average with the arm], a SS, at least one OF to replace Bay [unless you resign him]. Dumping Ortiz and using VM as your primary DH, spelling your catcher and 1B. Lowell also must go...but this is assuming their contracts run out as I am not sure when they do.

 

Games can be called from the dugout, champ.

 

IMO, if they make V-Mart the starting catcher and keep Tek as the backup we might have our usual game-calling prowess while fixing the C hole, and that should even start right now.

[Dojji]

Lowell will still be with us next year and would benefit from time at DH. Sitting Ortiz against LHP makes sense on two fronts next year.

 

I'm banking on the Red Sox being able to re-sign Jason Bay. If we do that, the entire offseason becomes predictable. I'd cut ties with Ortiz, swap for Adam Dunn, DH him, acquire Hardy, and take a serious look at bringing in Erik Bedard to bolster the rotation.

 

The downside is one of his usual disappearing acts, but Bedard is still effective while healthy and is proven in the AL East. A rotation of Beckett-Lester-Bedard-Matuzaka-Buchholz would be phenominal if it works out.

 

Personally I'd make Varitek a generous offer to switch roles from player to bench coach and call up Dusty Brown to be the backup catcher, or allow him to act as the bench coach while also playing catcher part-time. I'm not sure he'd accept because he seems to think he can still play (and in fairness, he still has OK numbers on the season) but I'd at least make the attempt before I expected Varitek to move on which is really what needs to happen this offseason..

[example1]

Yeah Carlos Pena also has a couple 100 RBI seasons, you usually have them when you hit 4th, however, if instead of trying to be a douche you'd take what i said into context, you'd understand.

 

But let's leave it at that.

 

No. Let's not leave it a that. If you're going to come and insult other people (trying to be a douche) then you better be prepared to back up your point.

 

Here's what I'm supposed to have read of yours, and then put it into context:

 

A 4 hitter has to drive in runs, Dunn's lack of contact makes him ill-suited for such a role.

 

Not a whole lot of context to draw from that statement.

 

His lack of contact is his only significant offensive flaw, and although it concerns me too, I think it is hard to justify all the praise that has come JD Drew's way the past few days on this board when his numbers are considerably worse than Dunn's.

 

Last 3 seasons (07-09):

 

[table] Name | G | HR | RBI | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS + |

Dunn | 431 | 112 | 294 | .261 | .395 | .548 | .943 | 141 |

Drew | 353 | 45 | 176 | .270 | .385 | .466 | .851 | 117 | [/table]

 

for that matter, why take Jason Bay out of that list?

 

[table] Name | G | HR | RBI | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS + |

Bay | 414 | 79 | 271 | .264 | .360 | .485 | .845 | 118 | [/table]

 

I would say that offensively Dunn is as good if not better than both of these guys (and I'm a big supporter of Jason Bay overall).

 

 

I don't think Dunn is the best answer to be cementing the middle of the order; he might just be the best realistic answer.

[Dojji]

Do look seriously at Bedard. Yes, he's less than healthy, but the health problems he's having are arm and shoulder related, and those are issues that we're better than an average MLB team at dealing with. It would be possible, although I'm not altogether sure how likely, to get Bedard at a reduced rate for a short term deal to give him a chance to work with our system, get his arm in order, and then go back to the well for his last big contract. If you can do that it would be a huge coup and would make our rotation extremely formidable, especially if Daisuke goes back to at least his 2008 form and Buchholz shows flashes of the form he's showing in these last few starts.

[Dipre]

No. Let's not leave it a that. If you're going to come and insult other people (trying to be a douche) then you better be prepared to back up your point.

 

Here's what I'm supposed to have read of yours, and then put it into context:

 

 

 

Not a whole lot of context to draw from that statement.

 

His lack of contact is his only significant offensive flaw, and although it concerns me too, I think it is hard to justify all the praise that has come JD Drew's way the past few days on this board when his numbers are considerably worse than Dunn's.

 

Last 3 seasons (07-09):

 

[table] Name | G | HR | RBI | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS + |

Dunn | 431 | 112 | 294 | .261 | .395 | .548 | .943 | 141 |

Drew | 353 | 45 | 176 | .270 | .385 | .466 | .851 | 117 | [/table]

 

for that matter, why take Jason Bay out of that list?

 

[table] Name | G | HR | RBI | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS + |

Bay | 414 | 79 | 271 | .264 | .360 | .485 | .845 | 118 | [/table]

 

I would say that offensively Dunn is as good if not better than both of these guys (and I'm a big supporter of Jason Bay overall).

 

 

I don't think Dunn is the best answer to be cementing the middle of the order; he might just be the best realistic answer.

 

Jason Bay is also a vulnerable hitter who shouldn't be our #4 hitter, neither should Drew.

 

Again, the "context" is that Dunn is a VERY vulnerable hitter, do you argue otherwise?

 

He gets a lot of cheap homers and RBI's, but do you really want Dunn in a crucial spot K'ing like there's no tomorrow in front of above average pitching? Suit yourself.

 

Matt Holliday's probably a better #3 or #4 option than Bay or Dunn.

 

But hey, keep putting up your charties, logic (and his K rate) would dictate Adam Dunn is more a complimentary piece than a #4 bat.

 

Not to mention, he's under contract for next year, so he's not even our "best bet" because we'd have to trade for him anyway, champ.

[example1]

Lowell will still be with us next year and would benefit from time at DH. Sitting Ortiz against LHP makes sense on two fronts next year.

 

I'm banking on the Red Sox being able to re-sign Jason Bay. If we do that, the entire offseason becomes predictable. I'd cut ties with Ortiz, swap for Adam Dunn, DH him, acquire Hardy, and take a serious look at bringing in Erik Bedard to bolster the rotation.

 

The downside is one of his usual disappearing acts, but Bedard is still effective while healthy and is proven in the AL East. A rotation of Beckett-Lester-Bedard-Matuzaka-Buchholz would be phenominal if it works out.

 

Personally I'd make Varitek a generous offer to switch roles from player to bench coach, or allow him to act as the bench coach while also playing catcher part-time, and call up Dusty Brown to be the backup catcher. I'm not sure he'd accept because he seems to think he can still play (and in fairness, he still has OK numbers on the season) but I'd at least make the attempt before I expected Varitek to move on.

 

I would also cut ties with Ortiz, or trade him and all his money for something else. I think he would have a positive impact on clubhouses like Seattle or San Diego if a deal could be made for Felix or Gonzalez. He wouldn't be the centerpiece of the deal, but he would definitely be a name that fans can hang their hats on for a season if other serious talent comes along as well.

 

Varitek's defense is absolutely horrible. He needs to go. V-Mart and some defensive whiz catcher (internal, FA, trade, whatever) would be my ideal choice. V-Mart can play 1B and they can put solid defense behind the plate on those days. When he's behind the plate then his offense speaks for itself and adds immediate value.

 

Dipre is right that game calling can be managed from the bench. It can also be managed from the mound with Lester and Beckett and Dice-K.

 

I don't like Bedard very much. I do like John Lackey, but I'm afraid of how much he'll cost. As a #3 though he would be very nice indeed (and would simultaneously hurt the Angels, a potential playoff foe).

[Dojji]

 

I don't like Bedard very much.

 

Is it just the health or do you have some other reason?

[Gom]

Games can be called from the dugout, champ.

 

IMO, if they make V-Mart the starting catcher and keep Tek as the backup we might have our usual game-calling prowess while fixing the C hole, and that should even start right now.

I would LOVE it if you made V-Mart your starting catcher. Seriously. I would party in the Bronx.

 

Just remember...when your team ERA goes up by .25 or .50 a run a game, you know why.

[example1]

Jason Bay is also a vulnerable hitter who shouldn't be our #4 hitter, neither should Drew.

 

Again, the "context" is that Dunn is a VERY vulnerable hitter, do you argue otherwise?

 

Yes. I argue that anyone who has a .420 OBP or a .385 career OBP may be vulnerable but also may be dangerous. Every hitter is vulnerable in one way or another. The real question would be who would be more readily available to step into the middle of the order.

 

Honestly, I don't care about whether Dunn is a #4 or #5 hitter. He would be a middle of the order bat. I think he could be expected to put up 30 HR and 100 + RBI for Boston without needing to take much of a leap of faith.

 

He gets a lot of cheap homers and RBI's, but do you really want Dunn in a crucial spot K'ing like there's no tomorrow in front of above average pitching? Suit yourself.

 

Something tells me that he stands roughly the same chance of not making an out as either Dustin Pedroia (low end) or Kevin Youkilis (Dunn in 2009). The Sox philosophy is to not give away outs, so high OBP is what they would be looking for.

 

Furthermore, to completely discount the difference in SLG means that you are discounting the fact that when other guys (Bay, Drew) get hits, Dunn gets HRs. There's a benefit to that fact as well.

 

Matt Holliday's probably a better #3 or #4 option than Bay or Dunn.

 

I'll take Holliday in Fenway over Bay. I'd prefer Holliday AND Dunn.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Youk

Holliday

V-Mart

Dunn

Lowell

Drew

Lowrie

 

But hey, keep putting up your charties, logic (and his K rate) would dictate Adam Dunn is more a complimentary piece than a #4 bat.

 

Not to mention, he's under contract for next year, so he's not even our "best bet" because we'd have to trade for him anyway, champ.

 

With Washington struggling to sign Strausburg I could envision them being open to a deal for a handful of lesser talent to rebuild for the next few years and move Dunn. I don't think it would take the best talent in the system. Plus, being under contract next year means it is lower risk for the Sox. If he sucks or doesn't work out he is probaby 2 draft picks the following year.

 

He may not be an ideal #4 bat, but I contend that he's as good as any options they have now. I don't believe that there's a huge drawback if he K's.

 

 

*Notice how I skipped right over the condecending remarks about "charties" etc., you can just leave those out next time too. I don't have to look up numbers to back up my arguments but I think it makes the discussion better (and I bet most others agree).*

[example1]

Is it just the health or do you have some other reason?

 

I have a sour taste in my mouth from all the reclaimation projects from this year. I have the same sense about Rich Harden. They're great pitchers when they're healthy. Of course, Bedard also has enough of a track record that he can probably demand more than a reclamation project salary. I would rather they play it conservative and pay more for a more steady thing. John Lackey has been more of a rock, though somewhat less spectacularly.

 

I think this FO benefits most from being able to reliably predict what they have to build around. I think they have struggled with the "wide range" of possible outcomes of guys from Wade Miller to John Smoltz and with everything in between. Their system is based on predicting success when they plug pieces into the equation. With guys with such a variable health history I think that really makes that process difficult.

 

This club has enough $ to not have to play with fire.

[Dojji]

John Lackey is overrated. He's a good not great starter who's had injury problems each of the last 2 years and will want paying like the ace he isn't.

 

Given the choice I'd rather have a guy I know will either be effective or injured.

 

Really given the choice, I'd prefer a superior third option worth really spending money on but all those guys are getting locked up by their teams.

[Gom]

Say what you want about the Yankees spending...but we got a shitload better investment on the dollar than you did this off-season.

 

I said it last season. The teams switched philosophies. We went with the guys in their prime and locked them up. You went with the aged superstars hoping for lightning in a bottle. It didn't work for us, and it didn't work for you.

 

The only difference is that we locked them up for years, and you only did it for one season.

[Dojji]

even if true Gom that's a pretty big difference.

[Gom]

even if true Gom that's a pretty big difference.

 

It's absolutely true. There is no question about that.

 

I mentioned at the time...I was surprised your team took this track, but I'm not surprised.

[example1]

Say what you want about the Yankees spending...but we got a shitload better investment on the dollar than you did this off-season.

 

I said it last season. The teams switched philosophies. We went with the guys in their prime and locked them up. You went with the aged superstars hoping for lightning in a bottle. It didn't work for us, and it didn't work for you.

 

The only difference is that we locked them up for years, and you only did it for one season.

 

No. The Red Sox philosophy has never been that guys deserve close to 20m a year. Yeah, locking up young in-their-prime talent is a similar philosophy, but not at any cost.

 

Also, in terms of investment on the dollar I assume you're not counting Pedroia, Youkilis and Lester, right?

[soxfan17881]

No. The Red Sox philosophy has never been that guys deserve close to 20m a year. Yeah, locking up young in-their-prime talent is a similar philosophy, but not at any cost.

 

Also, in terms of investment on the dollar I assume you're not counting Pedroia, Youkilis and Lester, right?

 

Ellsbury's next on that list, too.

[Dojji]

Ellsbury's next on that list' date=' too.[/quote']

 

Unless it's Paps or MDC that is.

[RWTP24]

We should not freak out because there are 40 or more games left and everyone has a slump in one point of the season. Remember, the Yankees slumped at the beginning of the season. IMO, the Sox are going to peak at just the right time. Plus, Dice-K and Wake will be back soon and everyone has been hitting lately. i just really hope francona will make some roster changes for good.

[TheKilo]

People who say we'd be in 1st with Tex have to be joking.

 

 

This team's problem is clearly starting pitching, and although i was a huge supporter of signing Tex, and we probably would be better in the standings with him, he can't start games, so.....

 

I don't agree with this at all, especially since the team just went through a stretch where they couldn't score a damn run to save their lives.

 

And if the real problem was starting pitching, then Theo shouldn't have given reclamation projects those contracts.

 

Sorry, can't argue both sides here.

[Dipre]

I don't agree with this at all, especially since the team just went through a stretch where they couldn't score a damn run to save their lives.

 

And if the real problem was starting pitching, then Theo shouldn't have given reclamation projects those contracts.

 

Sorry, can't argue both sides here.

 

Read this again. Closely.

 

Then think about all the games we lost with the 3, 4 and 5 spots in the rotation s***ing the bed.

 

The s***** offense lasted a couple of days, the s***** pitching has lasted nearly all year, champ.

[TheKilo]

Yeah Carlos Pena also has a couple 100 RBI seasons, you usually have them when you hit 4th, however, if instead of trying to be a douche you'd take what i said into context, you'd understand.

 

But let's leave it at that.

 

So, a guy who hits 40 HRs for four straight years has some problems driving in runs?

 

I don't want Dunn on my team either but it's not for his offense.

[Dipre]

So, a guy who hits 40 HRs for four straight years has some problems driving in runs?

 

I don't want Dunn on my team either but it's not for his offense.

 

Tell me another player who hits 40 and can barely break 110 ribbies plz.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

We're not having a discussion about RBIs, are we?

[Dojji]

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Jack-Cust.shtml

[TheKilo]

Read this again. Closely.

 

Then think about all the games we lost with the 3, 4 and 5 spots in the rotation s***ing the bed.

 

The s***** offense lasted a couple of days, the s***** pitching has lasted nearly all year, champ.

 

Really?

 

All star Tim Wakefield?

 

Brad Penny, who from May 3 to June 28 had a 3.74 ERA?

 

You're nuts if you think pitching has been the consistent problem.

[TheKilo]

Tell me another player who hits 40 and can barely break 110 ribbies plz.

 

Aren't you the guy who preaches how bad of a stat RBIs are because of how team dependent it is?

 

Who in Cincinnati and Washington get on base in front of Dunn?

[MANNYHOF24]

Aren't you the guy who preaches how bad of a stat RBIs are because of how team dependent it is?

 

Who in Cincinnati and Washington get on base in front of Dunn?

 

Owned.

[redsoxrules]

Really?

 

All star Tim Wakefield?

 

Brad Penny, who from May 3 to June 28 had a 3.74 ERA?

 

You're nuts if you think pitching has been the consistent problem.

 

whats he done outside of that ? whats he done since june 28th?

the guy was even awfull in that stretch you mentioned . he was getting lucky in that stretch , he always allowed a s*** load of baserunners but was lucky to get out of it wich explains the low ERA it was bound to catch up to him and thats why he's sucking right now

[redsoxrules]

Tell me another player who hits 40 and can barely break 110 ribbies plz.

 

you do know that Dunn has the 3rd best OPS in the NL right?

you wouldn't him as a DH?