Is it time to prioritize 2010?

[Dojji]

This is just something I've been thinking of recently. The last time we won the World Series followed a year where we took a serious step backward to reevaluate what we had and in what direction the Boston Red Sox needed to go. We kind of had to, because injuries shook up all the roles and we had to reload the roster to settle people back in place.

 

Going towards the end of that year, especially following the disastrous 5 game Yankee series, it was clear that the Sox were starting to make moves with more of an eye towards 2007 than 2006, such as the Hinske acquisition and the starts given to Tavarez and Gabbard, all three of which turned out to be useful to the next season but not particularly helpful to a team clinging desperately to its playoff hopes.

 

What brings this up is that the more I look at our deadline acquisition the more one thing stands out -- we didn't get guys who would be gone at the end of the year. We got guys who might still be Red Sox next year, and part of what they're doing right now is auditioning for their 2010 roles. And what's more, the one rental we DID have, we shipped off for an inferior player whose contract we control beyond this season, even though there was technically no need to do so.

 

With the injuries and slumps by Ortiz, Bay and Daisuke, the inconsistency of what should be a great bullpen, and the utter fail in the 3-4-5 slots in the rotation, is it fair to call what we're seeing from the organization right now a step backwards pending a shakeup? Are we about to see another great rethinking of the roster?

 

More to the point, is 2009 even still the top priority? Has it become a situation where a playoff appearance would represent a pleasant surprise and the time has come to start building towards a serious World Series run in 2010?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Who really expected to win tonight?

 

 

We still have Beckett and Lester in the series going against lesser pitchers. Should we completely fall apart in this series, there's always the wildcard.

[Dojji]

I'm not talking about just tonight. It's just that there's some things that we've been doing that make less sense if we're going for it this year than they do if we're no longer aggressively chasing a 2009 playoff appearance.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I think they're doing their best to contend this year without hurting their chances for next year.

[Dojji]

Then why trade LaRoche?

 

Personally I think they're doing just the opposite of what you said. Trying to line things up for next year without hurting their chances this year any more than they have to.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Then why trade LaRoche?

 

Trading for Martinez left no place for LaRoche, unless they plan on sitting Mike Lowell and his expensive deal next year. I think they're intenions with that trade were to try and use Kotchman to make another anyway, and they just didn't get it done.

[Dojji]

Next year? LaRoche's contract expires this year. And he's a better hitter than Kotchman by more than a little. And as a LHH backing up 2 RHH's and a switch hitter I think there'd have been at bats for him, especially since Ortiz never really got it together this year.

 

If it were still about this year, we would have kept Adam LaRoche.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

As I said, I think Kotchman was acquired to be a piece in some other trade that failed to materialize in time.

[diony]

Who really expected to win tonight?

 

 

We still have Beckett and Lester in the series going against lesser pitchers. Should we completely fall apart in this series, there's always the wildcard.

 

Expected baiting after a 13-6 loss.

[Dipre]

Expected baiting after a 13-6 loss.

 

You should never, ever talk about baiting.

 

Specially with your use of smileys and constant FAIL.

[Dipre]

This is as reactionary a thread as i've seen, EVER.

[Keeper]

This is as reactionary a thread as i've seen' date=' EVER.[/quote']

 

Agreed. Although I do agree with Dojji about LaRoche.

[Dipre]

Agreed. Although I do agree with Dojji about LaRoche.

 

I don't.

 

I think LaRoche got traded because they saw some improvement with Lowell and LaRoche was not gonna be content while being reduced to the role Kotchman has now.

[Keeper]

Possibly. You obviously see more games than I do, but do you think Lowell looks better? There was a play at third where he had to dive that a good third baseman makes nine times out of ten.

[Dipre]

Possibly. You obviously see more games than I do' date=' but do [i']you[/i] think Lowell looks better? There was a play at third where he had to dive that a good third baseman makes nine times out of ten.

 

Lowell has regained much of his mobility.

 

I was the most skeptical out of everyone here about his recovery really.

 

About the diving play, i think he simply reacted late.

[Keeper]

Fair enough. I can buy that.

[Dipre]

There is still much win that can come from this team really.

 

If we can at least salvage a split against the Yankees here, it's all about holding ground until pitching reinforcements come.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think they're doing their best to contend this year without hurting their chances for next year.

 

This is what I think as well. Anyone with only a mild understanding of baseball could see that the sox needed at least one starter. The vaunted Red Sox pitching depth had crumbled to its foundation. Beckett and Lester keep putting up the valiant effort, but when you consistently suck in the 3-5 slot, you cannot win. It is that simple.

 

And now, with DiceK on the way back, the sox might have a chance at righting the ship. Unfortunately for the sox, I do not think they do it in time to catch the streaking yankees. They do have a shot at the wild card. That being said, I think Theo pinned his 2009 hopes on the returns of Wake and DiceK. If they dont make it back, then the sox plan for 2010 is unchanged based on what they did this offseason. If they do, then the sox could make the playoffs this yr and go to a 3 man rotation.

 

Theo has said before that you need to take some steps back before you take steps forward. Now, I dont think he ever intends on a full out rebuild. Not in the slightest. But I think he always puts his best foot forward and there is a limit to where he is willing to add onto the team during the season. In 2006, the sox imploded based on injury mostly. And instead of fixing 2 rotation spots and half the lineup at the deadline, he sat still and played it out. At the beginning of 2006, the sox team was considered a playoff team. Injuries robbed them of that. Rather than go crazy, he sat back, took the hit, then won the title the following yr with some FA acquisitions and with pretty much the same team, just better health. If DiceK can build off this season and get back to what he was in 07 and 08, the sox rotation becomes formidable again with the 3 headed monster of Beckett-Lester-DiceK.

 

So for those who want a firesale, it wont be coming any time soon. I do guarantee the sox will make a FA splash this offseason and probably a trade nobody thought was coming. It is what they do. And I do bet that in 2010, the sox will be as formidable as always. That being said, there is a chance they regain their formidable status this yr too, depending on the health of the aged knuckler and the japanese pitcher.

[Dojji]

I'd say that's a fair take, Jacko. The loss of Daisuke made serious contention a lot more difficult, and the problems we've had with Ortiz and Bay are at a level no one would have expected before the season started.

 

The only reason I brought this up is because it starts affecting how we think about what we should be doing right now. If it's about this year, Buchholz isn't giving us the best chance to win. If it's about next year, we need him to start producing up to his ability and the only way to do that is to leave him in the major leagues.

 

Also whether it's about this year or next year affects how we deal with Josh Reddick. If we're building the team up for future seasons, getting Reddick as many starts as possible makes sense, if we're trying to contend now, we need to ride the veterans. Similar issues exist involving Varitek and V-Mart and how we position our catching staff, and to a lesser extent the Papelbon-Bard debate, although not as drastic there since we'll have both pitchers next year.

[rician blast]

This is what I think as well. Anyone with only a mild understanding of baseball could see that the sox needed at least one starter.

 

Agreed...and the fact that they did NOT acquire Halliday or any other top available pitcher says to me that the FO felt that such a move did not necessarily bring them that much closer to a title...thus they did not mortgage the future.

[Mr Crunchy]

A little early for the white flag my friends.

They arent gearing up for 2010 when up in the wild card and 3.5 out of 1st place on August 7th.

That being said Im not sure the players havent packed it in.

3 straight games we get HR's to open the game and we go 0-3.

Theyre flat, Smoltz and Penny embarass themselves each time they start and if we didnt have an 8-1 record against the Yanks we would be 5-6 games out of the division and battling tampa texas and anaheim for the wildcard spot.

As is they're lacking fire but tonight we have our stopper going I like our chances, maybe Becks opens the game and sends Jeter and Damon to the emergency ward on back to back pitches.

Somethings gotta get done here to fire these guys up, too many IBM types that are punching the clock at 7pm and punching out at 9pm rather than 11...

[Dipre]

A little early for the white flag my friends.

They arent gearing up for 2010 when up in the wild card and 3.5 out of 1st place on August 7th.

That being said Im not sure the players havent packed it in.

3 straight games we get HR's to open the game and we go 0-3.

Theyre flat, Smoltz and Penny embarass themselves each time they start and if we didnt have an 8-1 record against the Yanks we would be 5-6 games out of the division and battling tampa texas and anaheim for the wildcard spot.

As is they're lacking fire but tonight we have our stopper going I like our chances, maybe Becks opens the game and sends Jeter and Damon to the emergency ward on back to back pitches.

Somethings gotta get done here to fire these guys up, too many IBM types that are punching the clock at 7pm and punching out at 9pm rather than 11...

 

Post.Of.The.Year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Somethings gotta get done here to fire these guys up, too many IBM types that are punching the clock at 7pm and punching out at 9pm rather than 11...

 

But the FO made it that way. They got rid of anyone with a personality.

[Dojji]

But the FO made it that way. They got rid of anyone with a personality.

 

Wow. So Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon, Beckett, these guys don't have personalities?

 

You were going pretty good there for a while Jacko, but this is a ridiculous post.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont think so. This has been Crunchy's point since well before we came to this board. Theo and Henry like guys who stay out of the headlines. And while Youk and Pedroia have personalities, they arent Pedro or Manny or Ortiz or Damon or Schilling. Those guys had personalities and were divas. Theo does not like divas.

[Dipre]

I dont think so. This has been Crunchy's point since well before we came to this board. Theo and Henry like guys who stay out of the headlines. And while Youk and Pedroia have personalities' date=' they arent Pedro or Manny or Ortiz or Damon or Schilling. Those guys had personalities and were divas. Theo does not like divas.[/quote']

 

Again, this is a ridiculous post.

 

No team wants primadonnas.

 

If you were the owner of a team, would you like negative press?

[jacksonianmarch]

No, I wouldnt like negative press. But then again, if those players produced, then I'd have to look the other way

[Dipre]

No' date=' I wouldnt like negative press. But then again, if those players produced, then I'd have to look the other way[/quote']

 

*sigh*

 

That is not the question.

 

When acquiring players, would you or would you not avoid players who bring about negative press?

[das11209]

*sigh*

 

That is not the question.

 

When acquiring players, would you or would you not avoid players who bring about negative press?

 

When acquiring a player - all a GM should care about is performance on the field. So if I were a GM - I will gladly take A-Rod if his performance does not get impacted by his diva act of the field.

 

Winning is the best medicine. The players with the best of attitude become toxic in a loosing environment.

[Gom]

When acquiring a player - all a GM should care about is performance on the field. So if I were a GM - I will gladly take A-Rod if his performance does not get impacted by his diva act of the field.

 

Winning is the best medicine. The players with the best of attitude become toxic in a loosing environment.

 

Hear, hear.