Sox After Martinez/Lee?

[Rdsxmbnt]

Stuff I have heard today so far:

 

--The Rays and Red Sox are both talking to the Guardians about deals that would bring them both Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez. Tampa is willing to part with touted pitching prospect Wade Davis. The Red Sox are not quite there yet in willingness to deal Clay Buchholz. Texas and Milwaukee also have eyes for Lee while the Giants are considering Martinez.

 

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2009/07/latest_on_halla.html

 

Breaking off from the mega thread...

 

I'm pretty against trading Buchholz in a Halladay deal but this is one scenario where I'd be more inclined to do it. Fills both needs with a good bat and a legitimate (AL pitcher) #2 guy.

 

I'm not sure what it will take but maybe Buchholz, Anderson, Delcarmen, Kalish, and Doubrout would be a solid offer

[jacksonianmarch]

Buch and Bard would be the starting point

[Dojji]

while the... New York Giants are considering Martinez.

 

I didn't know they'd moved back.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I didn't know they'd moved back.

 

The link in the article is an ad for the Giants haha

[TedWilliams101]

I would take a Buchholz, Anderson, ++(Delcarmen, Masterson, etc) deal for Lee and V-mart in a heart beat.

[Dojji]

As I said, the only prospects I don't move are Kelly and Bard and the Guardians can pick any one reliever in the current pen other than Papelbon and Bard.

 

Dan Bard stays.

[redsoxrules]

As I said, the only prospects I don't move are Kelly and Bard and the Guardians can pick any one reliever in the current pen other than Papelbon and Bard.

 

Dan Bard stays.

 

you running the show now ?

[BoSox21]

I don't see two of Buchholz, Kelly and Bard leaving under any circumstances

[Dojji]

you running the show now ?

 

No, but I can't see Theo dealing the kid unless he's doing it to keep othe prospects out of the deal that he thinks would be higher impact and the only guys I can think of who fits that description in comparison to Bard is Buchholz and MAYBE Josh Reddick. And we've already heard that Theo IS willing to put Buch in the right deal.

[Dipre]

Just f***ing fix this roster.

 

If Buch goes, Kelly should stay.

 

Bard should preferably stay.

[Dojji]

Bard is the player above all others that the Guardians will want though. They've been desperate for a top closer for years. In 2007 they lost in the playoffs at least partly because of Joe Blow. In 2008 and this year their biggest problem was lack of a shutdown bullpen. We could prboably take 2 other top prospects out of the deal if we do include him.

 

I still don't do it but it's worth thinking about if we can preserve Kelly and Bowden for putting in Bard.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Would Cleveland bring in a bigger haul if they were to deal them separately?

[suns]

Would Cleveland bring in a bigger haul if they were to deal them separately?

 

I think yes.

[Dipre]

Would Cleveland bring in a bigger haul if they were to deal them separately?

 

But it might be more sensible to deal them together from a practical standpoint.

 

By dealing both in a package if able to, you negate the possibility of one of them staying due to any outside factor and something happening that may either reduce their value, or the off-season reducing either by FA or players made available through trade, the interest other teams have in them.

[Dojji]

I'm not sure why we want Victor Martinez so badly. He's a great player, but not the best fit for us ATM as Varitek isn't doing that badly this year. VMart loses a lot of his value as a 1B.

 

We don't really have a position player who's an attractive trade target for a rebuilding team other than possibly Lowrie, and we need him. So the most logical way to put Victor Martinez on the roster is to take George Kottaras off. since he's out of options that means waiving him, and it'd be a gamble to waive him considering how weak some teams in this league are at catcher.

 

I suppose you could get away with that if you commit yourself to calling up Dusty Brown once Wake gets off the DL. But at some point you have to either chance VMart with the knuckler or bring up a caddy for Wakefield, and I'm not really comfortable with either option -- or with just dascarding Wakefield or putting him at a disadvantage just so we don't have to carry 3 catchers.

 

The only other way to do this is to put Lowell on the disabled list until September and use VMart primarily as a 1B. That's only a move you make if Lowell will definitely need additional surgery. And I'm not sure about the fallout at corner infield from that since LaRoche loses a lot of his utility if Youks switches fulltime to third for the season.

 

At least with Lowrie having some reps at third we don't lack for a viable backup at any position in that scenario.

[Dipre]

I'm not sure why we want Victor Martinez so badly. Varitek isn't doing that badly this year and I'm not sure who heads off the roster to put him on.

 

He can hit, catch, and play 1st.

 

This team needs OFFENSE, even if it means taking a chance on V-Mart catching Wake.

[suns]

He can hit, catch, and play 1st.

 

This team needs OFFENSE, even if it means taking a chance on V-Mart catching Wake.

 

I think that victor doesn't even throw out more people than tek does.

[Dojji]

He can hit, catch, and play 1st.

 

This team needs OFFENSE, even if it means taking a chance on V-Mart catching Wake.

 

For the record, LaRoche is doing a great job at first so far, and Varitek is actually an average to above average offensive catcher this year.

 

You will now proceed to downplay this and proceed to explain in very condescending terms why we need to deal high-value assets for marginal gains.

[Dipre]

For the record' date=' [b']LaRoche is doing a great job at first so far[/b], and Varitek is actually an average to above average offensive catcher this year.

 

You will now proceed to downplay this and proceed to explain in very condescending terms why we need to deal high-value assets for marginal gains.

 

You've explained it all by yourself.

 

You know what, you're absolutely right given the sheer gargantuan size of the sample size of LaRoche's performance in Boston.

 

You will now proceed to downplay this and suck on LaRoche's ballsack..

[yankeessuck013]

I think that victor doesn't even throw out more people than tek does.

 

V-Mart has thrown out 13% of runners, Tek has thrown out 15%

[WhiskeyBreath]

If we add VMart he's going to have to get 6 starts a week. I assume he would get something like 3 starts at catcher and the rest at first base.

[Dipre]

If we add VMart he's going to have to get 6 starts a week. I assume he would get something like 3 starts at catcher and the rest at first base.

 

He could also DH to rest Papi.

[Dojji]

You've explained it all by yourself.

 

You know what, you're absolutely right given the sheer gargantuan size of the sample size of LaRoche's performance in Boston.

 

You will now proceed to downplay this and suck on LaRoche's ballsack..

 

You just hate being called on your act don't you?

[Teddyballgame10]

We also wouldnt need to being Tek back next year. We still could but would not need to.

[TheKilo]

V-Mart has thrown out 13% of runners' date=' Tek has thrown out 15%[/quote']

 

[table]Year|Martinez CS%|Varitek CS%

2009|13.3%|15.1%

2008|37.1%|22.2%

2007|32.0%|24.1%

2006|18.0%|22.0%

2005|23.2%|24.4%[/table]

 

 

Seems one has more upside, no?

[Dipre]

You just hate being called on your act don't you?

 

I just hate incredible measures of stupidity.

 

If you're talking about being called on acts, let's try this:

 

 

Player A:

 

.281 AVG /.380 OBP /.554 SLG. 934 OPS in 94 games.

 

Player B:

 

.289 AVG / .330 OBP / .470 SLG /.800 OPS in 74 games.

 

Player A is Mark Teixeira, guess who player B is?

 

This is an example why i have no act to be called on.

 

Yet, the "Village Idiot" act is all yours.

[WhiskeyBreath]

He could also DH to rest Papi.

 

Of course. I just don't see a whole lot of starts at DH for him.

[Dojji]

I just hate incredible measures of stupidity.

 

If you're talking about being called on acts, let's try this:

 

 

Player A:

 

.281 AVG /.380 OBP /.554 SLG. 934 OPS in 94 games.

 

Player B:

 

.289 AVG / .330 OBP / .470 SLG /.800 OPS in 74 games.

 

Player A is Mark Teixeira, guess who player B is?

 

This is an example why i have no act to be called on.

 

Yet, the "Village Idiot" act is all yours.

 

You're really going to go on a flying tangent to play the Teixeira card.

 

You have an act, and it's getting very old.

[Dipre]

You're really going to go on a flying tangent to play the Teixeira card.

 

You have an act, and it's getting very old.

 

You mean an act like sucking the ballsack of every mediocre prospect in the history of ever?

[Dojji]

[table]Year|Martinez CS%|Varitek CS%

2009|13.3%|15.1%

2008|37.1%|22.2%

2007|32.0%|24.1%

2006|18.0%|22.0%

2005|23.2%|24.4%[/table]

 

 

Seems one has more upside, no?

 

Bearing in mind that Tek has been far more consistent and that V-Mart's 2008 sample (his best year) is based on a season cut short by injury. Neither of them really have what could be called a great arm. You are going to be able to run on either catcher.