Jason Bay, Redsox ready to talk

[BSN07]

I don't know enough about Reddick. I've heard great things. But I guess we would need an unbiased opinion about him to gauge whether he is a likely candidate.

[Dojji]

From all I've heard, he's there right now defensively and has power to spare. The question is his lack of plate discipline. Realistically, I don't think he comes up next year except maybe in September, since rushing a plate discipline problem is a recipe for disaster, but he might be a factor in deciding we don't want to commit a lot of years to anyone.

[Cocos Disciples]

On Reddick, BP's Kevin Goldstein said he would rank him above Lars in the organization.

[617_suffolkcounty_standup]

On Reddick' date=' BP's Kevin Goldstein said he would rank him above Lars in the organization.[/quote']

 

I agree with Kevin on that one. Saw Lars play not impressed one bit. Albeit I only saw him on 4-5 occasions, Reddick in the 3 times I saw him reminded me of a better version of Troy O'leary.

[BSN07]

I agree with Kevin on that one. Saw Lars play not impressed one bit. Albeit I only saw him on 4-5 occasions' date=' Reddick in the 3 times I saw him[b'] reminded me of a better version of Troy O'leary[/b].

 

Damn dude is that a compliment or a kick in the nuts?

 

I really liked O'Leary as a kid. But with that said I don't believe he was that great of a player.

[617_suffolkcounty_standup]

Damn dude is that a compliment or a kick in the nuts?

 

I really liked O'Leary as a kid. But with that said I don't believe he was that great of a player.

 

A better version. Meaning one that can play everyday.

[Dipre]

If Reddick can muster some plate discipline, he's a .900 OPS guy in the Majors, his power and contact skills are insane.

[jacksonianmarch]

Reddick isnt a .900OPS guy right now. He has good tools. His contact skills are definitely not elite IMO as evidenced by the BA and the strikeouts, but his power is real and I do think the patience is coming. I think he'll be a corner OFer for you guys one day, but I dont think it will be soon enough to defray the loss of a guy like Bay. I do think he'd be a good transition point from Drew, though.

[Dutchy]

Reddick isnt a .900OPS guy right now. He has good tools. His contact skills are definitely not elite IMO as evidenced by the BA and the strikeouts' date=' but his power is real and I do think the patience is coming. I think he'll be a corner OFer for you guys one day, but I dont think it will be soon enough to defray the loss of a guy like Bay. I do think he'd be a good transition point from Drew, though.[/quote']

 

[table]Topic|Team|Content

Prospect|Yankees|The player in question is made of 150% pure awesomeness. Fear us.

Prospect|Sox|He could be good, but this is why he won't be.

Signing|Yankees|This is the missing piece. We'll win 160 games, and the umps will screw us out of 2.

Signing|Sox|Risky move, overpaid here, they'll regret this.

Injury|Yankees|They don't get hurt. Hypothetically, if they did, the recovery will be speedy with no impact to ability.

Injury|Sox|Everyone is a ticking time bomb. Once hurt, they'll never heal right.[/table]

 

How are his contact skills below average? He's a 22 year old in AA with a career .301 batting average. How isn't he a .900 OPS guy right now? His OPS is .883 in pitching friendly Portland. Please try to at least fake objectivity.

[jacksonianmarch]

Elite contact skills would imply that he doesnt strike out. IE, he doesnt swing and miss, he can make contact with incredible regularity. He's got 46Ks through 49 games. Thats not elite. His batting average skills are solid, but where he is going to make an impact is through his power. I dont think you can refute that statement, so whichever table you wish to use to show that I will be right, feel free. He is a solid prospect, and if you follow some prospect models (ie, once a player makes his big league debut, then he becomes a post prospect), then you could argue he is the sox best prospect.

[Dipre]

Elite contact skills would imply that he doesnt strike out. IE' date=' he doesnt swing and miss, he can make contact with incredible regularity. He's got 46Ks through 49 games. Thats not elite. His batting average skills are solid, but where he is going to make an impact is through his power. I dont think you can refute that statement, so whichever table you wish to use to show that I will be right, feel free. He is a solid prospect, and if you follow some prospect models (ie, once a player makes his big league debut, then he becomes a post prospect), then you could argue he is the sox best prospect.[/quote']

 

Jacko, no matter how good your contact is, if you swing at EVERYTHING you will strike out, a lot.

 

Look at David Eckstein, in his prime he had elite contact skills, but he'd lay off pitches above his head or in the dirt, and Reddick is just know starting to not do that, however if you watch a couple of his ABs you'll know what i'm talking about.

[BSN07]

Bay may want Drew money. But he might not get it even if he id deserving of it. The market has changed drastically from when Drew signed his deal. Look for the money to be around Adam Dunn's' date=' but more years.[/quote']

 

Bay will get more than 10 mil' date=' count on it[/quote']

 

 

WEEI.com reported that Bay was seeking a three or four year deal worth about $14MM per season. The Red Sox, however, pointed to Adam Dunn's two-year $20MM deal as a point of reference for the discussions. The market for outfielders hasn't settled since then and that has contributed to the slow pace of the talks.

 

 

He will probably get more then 10M. But less for then 15M. I actually don't mind the thought of 3 years 14m AAV. I'm surprised the Sox balked at that. It will Probably end up being somewhere in between. 3-4 yrs, 12-13M per.

[TheKilo]

If Bay's seeking 4-56 they should really give it to him yesterday.

[Cocos Disciples]

No brainer for me too.

[BSN07]

If Bay's seeking 4-56 they should really give it to him yesterday.

 

No brainer for me too.

 

It does seem to be an easy move. maybe the Red Sox know something we don't:dunno:

[Dojji]

maybe they think that with a little patience they can get a better price.

 

No sense rushing into a 3 year commitment.

[TheKilo]

maybe they think that with a little patience they can get a better price.

 

No sense rushing into a 3 year commitment.

 

Penny wise and pound foolish if that's the case.

[Dutchy]

Elite contact skills would imply that he doesnt strike out. IE' date=' he doesnt swing and miss, he can make contact with incredible regularity.[/b'] He's got 46Ks through 49 games. Thats not elite. His batting average skills are solid, but where he is going to make an impact is through his power. I dont think you can refute that statement, so whichever table you wish to use to show that I will be right, feel free. He is a solid prospect, and if you follow some prospect models (ie, once a player makes his big league debut, then he becomes a post prospect), then you could argue he is the sox best prospect.

 

So you're saying he's going to be Wily Mo Pena? He's a career .300 hitter, that far outweighs whatever you have to say about his supposed inability to make contact and hit for average.

[YAZMAN]

Penny wise and pound foolish if that's the case.

 

And if they give him the money it would be easier to sweeten the deal with a couple of option years written in. I say go for it. He's healthy, mashes, and is not a liability in LF.

[Dutchy]

Sounds like he really does want to stay, and the two sides will get a deal done.

 

"Both Bay and the Sox have made little secret of a mutual interest in finding a deal to keep the power-hitting outfielder in Boston beyond the 2009 season, the last of a four-year, $18.25 million deal that Bay signed with the Pirates."

 

"Earlier this season, Rob Bradford reported that Bay – who has never before been eligible for free agency – was seeking something in the three- or four-year range for roughly $14 million a year. In the months since then, there have been no other extensions signed that might clarify the direction of the market and offer greater direction to negotiations."

 

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/red-sox/alex-speier/2009/07/16/state-bay-outfielder-open-negotiations-red-sox-second-h

 

If it comes down to it, I'm sure the Sox would be willing to give him the 4 years/56 he wanted earlier in the season.

[BoSox21]

they'd better be willing

[Dutchy]

They've called off talks. Red Sox made what they consider to be an "aggresive" offer and they got nowhere.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/07/sox_bay_break_o.html

 

Guess he's going to free agency, which could be good or bad. The Yankees could sign Holliday and without another team to drive up the bidding, Bay's price will drop. Or the Yankees could sign Bay and we'd be stuck with Holliday.

[jacksonianmarch]

Even though he is in a slump, Bay is the perfect player for the Yankees to go after. Big time power hitter with good RBI skills who can handle the yankee sox rivalry. I guarantee you that if we have the choice between Holliday or Bay, we'll take Bay.

[VA Sox Fan]

Even though he is in a slump' date=' Bay is the perfect player for the Yankees to go after. Big time power hitter with good RBI skills who can handle the yankee sox rivalry. I guarantee you that if we have the choice between Holliday or Bay, we'll take Bay.[/quote']

 

yawn

[VA Sox Fan]

Sox, Bay break off talks

 

Posted by Adam Kilgore, Globe Staff July 17, 2009 04:43 PM

 

TORONTO -- The Red Sox and All-Star left fielder Jason Bay failed to come to terms on a contract extension after the Red Sox made an "aggressive" offer about one week ago, general manager Theo Epstein said. The halting of negotiations means the Sox and Bay have probably ended any contract negotiations until after the season, when he is eligible to become a free agent.

 

"It's now clear that this round of talks won't result in a deal, either," Epstein said a few moments ago. "As a result, we're going to table discussions again, which once again is a mutual decision, and pick them up most likely after the season."

 

Bay, whom the Red Sox traded for at last year's non-waiver deadline, is in the final year of a contract extension he signed with the Pittsburgh Pirates in November 2005. The Red Sox had negotiated with Bay during spring training, but the talks broke down when the sides could not agree on a fair-market value for outfielders.

 

The Red Sox restarted talks with Bay and his agent, Joe Urbon, in mid-June. Epstein characterized them as "amicable," and he believed the Sox had a chance to finalize a new extension before the All-Star break.

 

"I think we were really hopeful with the aggressive offer that we made that we could have reached a deal now," Epstein said. "But we have complete respect for Jason as a player and a person and for what free agency means to players. He's worked his whole career and had a really consistent career to get to a point where he can set his family up for life. We're not going to begrudge him. We're not going to hold anything against him because he makes a decision that he may want to wait and be able to consider every possible opportunity.

 

"I think he sat down with us in good faith. We approached him in good faith. And it just didn't work out at this point. We'll see what the future brings. We still want to attain him. I think he still wants to be here. It's just not going to happen now."

 

We'll have Bay's thoughts in a few moments.

[Dojji]

My little addendum comes in handy.

 

 

[table]Topic|Team|Content

Prospect|Yankees|The player in question is made of 150% pure awesomeness. Fear us.

Prospect|Sox|He could be good, but this is why he won't be.

Signing|Yankees|This is the missing piece. We'll win 160 games, and the umps will screw us out of 2.

Signing|Sox|Risky move, overpaid here, they'll regret this.

Injury|Yankees|They don't get hurt. Hypothetically, if they did, the recovery will be speedy with no impact to ability.

Injury|Sox|Everyone is a ticking time bomb. Once hurt, they'll never heal right.

Pending FA|Yankees|He will surely sign with the Yankees, or if not, good riddance to bad rubbish

Pending FA|Sox|He will reject any deal with Boston and sign with New York[/table]

[example1]

The question is whether the Sox have the pieces in place to let Bay go, replace him with someone and maybe ultimately end up better off because of the draft picks. Bay would probably be the best player to leave the Sox for draft picks under Theo's watch, and unless the Yankees swoop in they are betting that there aren't going to be many heavy suitors given how the market looked last year. Or they just don't care if he gets the money he wants elsewhere.

 

All that aside, I'm really curious where the Sox see their runs coming from over the next few years. Drew, Pedroia, Youkilis, and Ortiz are the players who will likely produce for them. Beyond that I see a lot of offensive question-marks.

 

They may really have their eyes on Matt Holliday as a good 2nd option. Personally, I think Holliday is still a very good hitter and that his numbers the past few seasons are tough to judge him on. At his age (would be 30) and with his ability I really envision that he will have another few really good seasons in him and he may be a buy low candidate with his performance in Oakland and concerns about Colorado.

 

With his last few seasons in this economy, I could imagine Holliday taking JD Drew money, Bay approaching 18-20m and the Sox just not paying that. Holliday's last 3 seasons have had OBPs of .405, .409, and .371 (09), with the major difference appearing to be his AVG, not his ability to draw walks.

 

If Holliday goes back to where he was at his height (increased AVG, increased SLG... perhaps aided by Fenway) then he's the type of guy who can DH and be the pillar in the middle of the order.

 

A few years ago (2007) Jason Bay went .247/.327/.418. I don't think we should write Holliday off because he's having a season in a new league/pitchers park with an OPS "only" around .800. With his eye I would think that at worst he's JD Drew offensively, at best he's Mark Teixeira.

 

What happens draft-pick wise if they let Bay go and signed Holliday?

[Dutchy]

Even though he is in a slump' date=' Bay is the perfect player for the Yankees to go after. Big time power hitter with good RBI skills who can handle the yankee sox rivalry. I guarantee you that if we have the choice between Holliday or Bay, we'll take Bay.[/quote']

 

If you think Johnny Damon is bad in the big left field of Yankee Stadium, imagine Jason Bay out there. That, plus the two draft picks the Yankees would have to surrender to the Red Sox will of course factor in any decision, should both Holliday and Bay be available to the Yankees.

[VA Sox Fan]

Bay on contract talks

 

Posted by Amalie Benjamin, Globe Staff July 17, 2009 05:39 PM

 

TORONTO -- Just because contract talks broke down between Jason Bay and the Red Sox for the second time this season doesn't mean that Bay is eager to test free agency. Bay said that he'd still like to remain with the team, but didn't want the contract situation to become a distraction to anyone around the club.

 

"I'm not trying to set a precedent," Bay said. "Just looking for something that's fair. Whether that's changed over the last three months, you guys can determine that.

 

"It's the same situation we were in in spring training, where they were at a place where they were comfortable and we were at a place where we're comfortable and we didn't bridge the gap. That being said, doesn't really mean it's the end of the world, either. Just didn't really want it to become a distraction, not so much to myself but to the entire team. So we decided to kind of table that until later, which probably will be til the end of the season."

 

Bay and his agent, Joe Urbon, rejected the final contract offer made by the Sox about a week ago, and the talks finished up yesterday.

 

Asked if he was encouraged by how the talks went this time, Bay said, "Yeah. ... They have come a long way and, like I said, it's not really the end-all, be-all. Definitely more encouraged with the way things went this time, a lot more, actually, that hopefully we get something done."

 

Bay said the Sox had made "great strides and I appreciate it."

 

The sides can sit down again at the end of the season, after the World Series, before Bay would have to file for free agency. He's just looking for "something that makes sense for me," he said.

 

"I am in no position to say that I want to file for free agency and see what's out there," he said. "I'd still love to get something done here. I like it here. But that being said, we just basically at this point right now don't want it to be an ongoing distraction, like i said, for both of us coming to the field and answering contract questions.

 

"So we're kind of tabling it and there's a big window at the end of the year after the season. We can sit down and try to hammer something out again. But the way things have gone so far, like I said, very encouraged with that."

[Dutchy]

We will still have an exclusive window of negotiation after the World Series. And it's not like we're in a horrible position should he leave. We have a bunch of leftover salary to sign another guy like Matt Holliday or Brian Giles (Crawford and Dye both have options which will likely be picked up). Or we could trade for someone, we have plenty of trade chips.

 

But I really like Jason Bay. I hope he stays.