All that is Halladay

[Dipre]

Dojji has made it a his personal plight to hype the seemingly unhypable:D

 

And he's failing miserably at it.

[BSN07]

And he's failing miserably at it.

 

Giving it the ol college effort though:D

[Looch Ness Monster]

Joe McDonald and Paul Kenyon of The Providence Journal say that Ricciardi wanted pitchers Clay Buchholz, Casey Kelly, and another top prospect from the Red Sox in exchange for Halladay.

 

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sp_bb_red_sox_journal_28_07-28-09_GOF6SLI_v2.30ef481.html

 

Not sure if it's been posted.

[SoxSport]

The talk is about A. Gonzo, Lee/VMart and Halladay. I think they recognize the need for another prime starter, so that's Lee or Halladay. They also need a catcher who can play 1B. That's VMart. So VMart/Lee satisfies all of their needs. If they deal, it will be VMart/Lee. So long, Bard and Buchholz. And maybe LaRoche, who is looking good so far.

[example1]

Buchholz has better stuff now than Lester had as a rookie. But Lester always had a better approach to pitching. His approach has always been not to give in. And now that he is fully back from chemo' date=' his stuff has improved significantly and his advanced approach makes him a top pitcher in the league. While Buchholz has the stuff, I dont know if he has the head to be an elite pitcher. I still bet he settles in as a good big league pitcher, but those who think he becomes the next Lester may be a bit disappointed.[/quote']

 

I don't know if I fully agree with you, but much of what you say seems right. I think a pitcher's willingness to attack the zone aggressively is often based on a history of success doing-so. I think Buchholz has success doing that at every level but has been hit hard when he does it in the big leagues.

 

In an interview Buchholz said that he was going to pitch the way he wanted to and to call the game himself. Given how often he has shaken off his catcher the first few games this year, I think it is fair to say that the Sox catchers (was it Tek both times?) don't quite know how he prefers to use his arsenal. What concerns me is that it seems like when the situations get difficult (men on, behind in the count) he's throwing whatever pitch Tek calls for him and not taking control aggressively like he does from the windup. If it is all about throwing his pitch at his time and slowing him down enough to have to think about what he's doing, he needs to do that in pressure situations too--even if he agrees with Varitek.

 

Usually I would tell a pitcher to just throw what Tek tells them to throw, but if Buchholz thinks he's better at harnessing his stuff then more power to him.

 

The prevailing theory is that Buchholz needs to command his FB and work from there. He throws more overhand than Lester does and his pitches seem to have quite a bit less horizontal movement. Lester's FB seems to come across the plate more and sets up his cutter and curveball effectively and leaves hitters defending both sides of the plate. Someone could certainly take a look at the F/X data and tell me if this is right or not. Overall it seems like Buchholz hasn't yet figured out how to get the routine inside-FB strikes and makehitters uncomfortable. Lester has those pitches in his back pocket now and that seems to be his major advancement compared to his early career.

 

Personally I see no reason Buchholz won't master command on the inside and outside. He's certainly spent a lot of time developing his other pitches to + + ability, now it is time to master getting ahead with the FB and throwing good but aggressive pitches to put hitters away. This is kind of a head issue, but (as someone mentioned above) it is also a repetition of motion issue, and a command issue. A guy with stuff that good has nothing to worry about if he can just let his stuff work for him.

[SCM33]

I don't know if I fully agree with you, but much of what you say seems right. I think a pitcher's willingness to attack the zone aggressively is often based on a history of success doing-so. I think Buchholz has success doing that at every level but has been hit hard when he does it in the big leagues.

 

In an interview Buchholz said that he was going to pitch the way he wanted to and to call the game himself. Given how often he has shaken off his catcher the first few games this year, I think it is fair to say that the Sox catchers (was it Tek both times?) don't quite know how he prefers to use his arsenal. What concerns me is that it seems like when the situations get difficult (men on, behind in the count) he's throwing whatever pitch Tek calls for him and not taking control aggressively like he does from the windup. If it is all about throwing his pitch at his time and slowing him down enough to have to think about what he's doing, he needs to do that in pressure situations too--even if he agrees with Varitek.

 

Usually I would tell a pitcher to just throw what Tek tells them to throw, but if Buchholz thinks he's better at harnessing his stuff then more power to him.

 

The prevailing theory is that Buchholz needs to command his FB and work from there. He throws more overhand than Lester does and his pitches seem to have quite a bit less horizontal movement. Lester's FB seems to come across the plate more and sets up his cutter and curveball effectively and leaves hitters defending both sides of the plate. Someone could certainly take a look at the F/X data and tell me if this is right or not. Overall it seems like Buchholz hasn't yet figured out how to get the routine inside-FB strikes and makehitters uncomfortable. Lester has those pitches in his back pocket now and that seems to be his major advancement compared to his early career.

 

Personally I see no reason Buchholz won't master command on the inside and outside. He's certainly spent a lot of time developing his other pitches to + + ability, now it is time to master getting ahead with the FB and throwing good but aggressive pitches to put hitters away. This is kind of a head issue, but (as someone mentioned above) it is also a repetition of motion issue, and a command issue. A guy with stuff that good has nothing to worry about if he can just let his stuff work for him.

 

 

I agree with almost all of this, well stated.

[Dipre]

Bucholz' struggles with men on base seem to come from him losing his release point.

 

Buch has a very high-maintenance motion, and the only way for him to fully master and refine his mechanics is by pitching at this level.

 

He has the stuff, all he needs is repetition.

[example1]

Bucholz' struggles with men on base seem to come from him losing his release point.

 

Buch has a very high-maintenance motion, and the only way for him to fully master and refine his mechanics is by pitching at this level.

 

He has the stuff, all he needs is repetition.

 

He really does have an active motion. It's a subtle thing that people who haven't watched a lot of baseball wouldn't notice, but he's long and lean and he seems to maxamize every joint in his body with his release. So did Pedro, so does Lincecum, so does Oswalt. Clearly athletic motions but a lot of moving parts to make great velocity from such a small frame. Fortunately for Buchholz (and the pitchers listed above) his motion allows for a devistating curveball and changeup.

 

Compare his motion to guys like Beckett and Lester, who seem to drive down and through the zone with tremendously strong legs and upper bodies. They pitch "bigger" like Clemens did, and can still hit 95 with an easy slide step. Buchholz really has to throw the ball.

[SCM33]

He really does have an active motion. It's a subtle thing that people who haven't watched a lot of baseball wouldn't notice, but he's long and lean and he seems to maxamize every joint in his body with his release. So did Pedro, so does Lincecum, so does Oswalt. Clearly athletic motions but a lot of moving parts to make great velocity from such a small frame. Fortunately for Buchholz (and the pitchers listed above) his motion allows for a devistating curveball and changeup.

 

Compare his motion to guys like Beckett and Lester, who seem to drive down and through the zone with tremendously strong legs and upper bodies. They pitch "bigger" like Clemens did, and can still hit 95 with an easy slide step. Buchholz really has to throw the ball.

 

Pedro was kinda similar, he was quiet with his step back and leg lift, but his arm motion was pretty violent. Prob has something to do with their body types.

 

EDIT: just noticed you mentioned Pedro haha

[Dipre]

He really does have an active motion. It's a subtle thing that people who haven't watched a lot of baseball wouldn't notice, but he's long and lean and he seems to maxamize every joint in his body with his release. So did Pedro, so does Lincecum, so does Oswalt. Clearly athletic motions but a lot of moving parts to make great velocity from such a small frame. Fortunately for Buchholz (and the pitchers listed above) his motion allows for a devistating curveball and changeup.

 

Compare his motion to guys like Beckett and Lester, who seem to drive down and through the zone with tremendously strong legs and upper bodies. They pitch "bigger" like Clemens did, and can still hit 95 with an easy slide step. Buchholz really has to throw the ball.

 

FBM, or full body motion.

 

C-Buc is not as fluid in it, as say, Lincecum, but he still depends on his entire body to generate velocity.

 

Until he can find a consistent release point both from the windup and stretch, we'll see a whole lot of 6-pitch ABs with men on base.

[SCM33]

FBM, or full body motion.

 

C-Buc is not as fluid in it, as say, Lincecum, but he still depends on his entire body to generate velocity.

 

Until he can find a consistent release point both from the windup and stretch, we'll see a whole lot of 6-pitch ABs with men on base.

 

Maybe his arm angles are still f***ed up from last season when they were screwing around with his mechanics. His windup seems to look like it did, maybe he still hasnt fixed his stretch mechanics?

[Dipre]

Maybe his arm angles are still f***ed up from last season when they were screwing around with his mechanics. His windup seems to look like it did' date=' maybe he still hasnt fixed his stretch mechanics?[/quote']

 

It's a real possibility.

 

Finding consistence from the stretch is no easy task, and such complicated mechanics make it infinitely harder.

[Rdsxmbnt]

FBM, or full body motion.

 

C-Buc is not as fluid in it, as say, Lincecum, but he still depends on his entire body to generate velocity.

 

Until he can find a consistent release point both from the windup and stretch, we'll see a whole lot of 6-pitch ABs with men on base.

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/release.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2009/month_07/day_22/gid_2009_07_22_bosmlb_texmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/453329.xml&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

 

Doesn't seem too out of whack to me

[The_Destroyah]

FBM, or full body motion.

 

C-Buc is not as fluid in it, as say, Lincecum, but he still depends on his entire body to generate velocity.

 

Until he can find a consistent release point both from the windup and stretch, we'll see a whole lot of 6-pitch ABs with men on base.

 

any guess on when you think this consistency will emerge in terms of major league starts?

i know its not exactly an easily predictable thing but any guesses?

[SCM33]

Is that combined stretch and windup?

[Dipre]

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/release.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2009/month_07/day_22/gid_2009_07_22_bosmlb_texmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/453329.xml&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

 

Doesn't seem too out of whack to me

 

I hate to sound like Gom, but you have to watch him pitch to notice it.

 

Not only that, but as example noted, it mostly happens from the stretch.

[SCM33]

Any way of getting a side by side graph to show windup-stretch?

[Dipre]

Any way of getting a side by side graph to show windup-stretch?

 

I'm looking for one right now.

[example1]

Maybe his arm angles are still f***ed up from last season when they were screwing around with his mechanics. His windup seems to look like it did' date=' maybe he still hasnt fixed his stretch mechanics?[/quote']

 

He's given up 4 ER in 9.2 IP, or a 3.72 ERA. He hasn't looked dominant, but he has looked decent.

 

I honestly don't think he has that much to work on. I don't worry about the consistency of his motion or release point most of the time, it just seems like when he has runners on he aims the ball and you can see the results in his follow through and pitches missing by quite a bit. If his motion was that inconsistent he wouldn't be a MLB pitcher. It's just that he's not trying to throw it low and away and missing low and away by 5 inches... it seems that he's aiming low and away and missing high with runners on. Wasted pitches at inopportune times. Lester used to do it, so did Beckett, so did most good pitchers. He also has a tremendous pick off move (watch those feet!) but he may lack good peripheral vision. I don't know, but he clearly worries about runners being on, snaps throws over to first when the guy hasn't left the bag yet and just seems overall preoccupied in those situations; he nibbles more, falls behind and has to throw something over the heart of the plate.

 

Overall he's in good shape and should be on a team like the Sox that can let him develop to his potential.

[example1]

I'm looking for one right now.

 

I don't have release point data (or much feel like looking for it) but a quick examination of his splits, specifically how batters do in different situations, show that over his career he has an OPS over 1.000 with men on 1st, about .600 with a man on 2nd, and about .400 with a man on 3rd.

 

With man on first his career line is .357/.443/.655

 

With nobody on his career line is .246/.327/.375

 

This variance may have to do with his ability to see the runner and feel in control. I'm not sure. There may be nothing to it, but I've noticed the same thing as Dipre. He seems, at the very least, uncomfortable with runners on and he doesn't attack them the same way... at least he hasn't historically.

 

His 2-seamer seems like a great first pitch with men on, throw it for a strike and he may get a DP ball or a taken first strike.

[BSN07]

Could it be he's dominated the minors to such an extent that he just isn't used to having that many runners on? It does appear that he try to "spot" or "aim" the ball from the stretch. But a lot of pitchers do have this problem early on. So I believe it can be fixed.

[Dipre]

He's given up 4 ER in 9.2 IP, or a 3.72 ERA. He hasn't looked dominant, but he has looked decent.

 

If his motion was that inconsistent he wouldn't be a MLB pitcher.

 

 

That is an enormous lie.

 

A lot of pitchers who are in the Majors right now have, or have had some inconsistency with their release point which lead to some wildness, generally in specific situations.

[Dojji]

Wasn't there a point when Randy Johnson was in NY that they had him pitching from the stretch for most of the season? Or is that unrelated?

[Dipre]

Wasn't there a point when Randy Johnson was in NY that they had him pitching from the stretch for most of the season? Or is that unrelated?

 

That's a textbook example actually.

 

Just like Dice-K when he first came over.

[Soxfan1]

The Boston Red Sox have offered at least three players – no-hit pitcher Clay Buchholz(notes), Triple-A pitching prospect Michael Bowden(notes) and top outfield prospect Ryan Westmoreland – to the Toronto Blue Jays for ace Roy Halladay(notes), according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. Because the Blue Jays, who are vigorously shopping Marco Scutaro(notes), are also looking for a shortstop, the Red Sox may be trying to draw a third team into negotiations to satisfy Toronto’s need.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-tradebuzz072809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

Please accept this deal.

[TedWilliams101]

Please please please please please please please. I want Halladay.

[Teddyballgame10]

Just saw this as well from the globe. . . pleaseeeeeee take this.

[SoxSport]

Edes link above confirms my suspicion the Sox are after ace pitching--for their young pitching. That means Halladay or Lee. Hopefully, they will land one of them. I would like to see them keep Bard. He is Papelbon insurance.

 

While a lot of posters favor A. Gonzalez, I think that's just a smokescreen. My guess is they will try to land Halladay for whatever it takes. It won't be like Santana. Not after Sabathia and Burnett and Teixeira.

[Teddyballgame10]

It says a third team could be in the deal bc the Jays want a SS. I'd suggest Lowrie but I dont have enoguh confidence in Lowells hip, also I dont know if the Jays valvue him at all.

[WhiskeyBreath]

If it's those 3 guys then it's a no brainer.