"I'm not a theo guy"

[Rdsxmbnt]

Crunchy what the hell does this even mean? I've seen you throw out this line a lot and frankly I don't get it. Not bashing you, but honestly what does the guy have to do for you?

[jacksonianmarch]

Crunchy has made no bones about Theo in the past. I think his point stems from the fact that 2004 was built with Duquette's guys for the most part and Crunch has never been a fan of the way Theo et al escort former stars out the door (ie gutting them in the papers then unceremoniously dealing them with a parting jab on the way out).

[Teddyballgame10]

I love Theo but I wish he would spend a little more money. I dunno if that is his fault or the ownership but I understand why they do it i agree they should have limits on their players but (I dont even want to get into this now) if Mauer comes available they have to break the bank for him, he is a once in the lifetime talent. I have no problems with him beside that.

[The_Destroyah]

yeah the not spending might end up bugging me short term but it helps alot long term.

like i believe the yanks didnt pay Tex much more than what we offered we just werent willing to pay anything over the price we set on him. But I think theo is trying to balance his spending to make a farm system like the one that produced the 08 rays and a Free Agency force that rivals the yanks. he just leans more on the farm system than the FA

[Teddyballgame10]

I agree but we have to have a lot of cash to spend now. We have the 180 mill we didnt spend on Tex plus what we saved from Manny leaving.

[The_Destroyah]

I say we pick up a 3rd baseman with power like P. Sandoval

[Dutchy]

Crunchy has made no bones about Theo in the past. I think his point stems from the fact that 2004 was built with Duquette's guys for the most part and Crunch has never been a fan of the way Theo et al escort former stars out the door (ie gutting them in the papers then unceremoniously dealing them with a parting jab on the way out).

 

I'm curious, what have the Red Sox done to "gut" players in the paper?

[Dojji]

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2005/04/28/320x240/images_sizedimage_117203852.jpghttp://www.diamondvues.com/Boston%20Red%20Sox%202007%20WS%20Ring.jpg

[The_Destroyah]

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/0/2005/04/28/320x240/images_sizedimage_117203852.jpghttp://www.diamondvues.com/Boston%20Red%20Sox%202007%20WS%20Ring.jpg

 

this.

[BoSox21]

I say we pick up a 3rd baseman with power like P. Sandoval

 

San Fran has money and isn't that bad of a team, I see no reason why they'd trade one of their best young players

 

As far as Theo goes, there are a lot of moves he doesn't make that piss me off (see Mark Teixeira) but not getting A-Rod in '03-'04 is maybe the best non-move in baseball history and in the end, his direction has lead to 2 titles in 5 years to go with 2 ALCS Game 7 appearances and only one season without a postseason berth. His pro scouting could use some work (Jeff Suppan, Eric Gagne, Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo) though.

[The_Destroyah]

San Fran has money and isn't that bad of a team, I see no reason why they'd trade one of their best young players

 

As far as Theo goes, there are a lot of moves he doesn't make that piss me off (see Mark Teixeira) but not getting A-Rod in '03-'04 is maybe the best non-move in baseball history and in the end, his direction has lead to 2 titles in 5 years to go with 2 ALCS Game 7 appearances and only one season without a postseason berth. His pro scouting could use some work (Jeff Suppan, Eric Gagne, Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo) though.

 

Id agree about Sandoval except that i keep hearing around the grape vine about their willingness to trade him away (probably false but its enough to intrigue me)

 

and as for your second point id agree we dont need to break the bank for Mr. April and its not like the Teixeira deal knocked us out of contention for the pennant or anything in fact our 8-0 record vs. the Yanks this year seems to point to it not being that bad a deal

[yankees228]

San Fran has money and isn't that bad of a team, I see no reason why they'd trade one of their best young players

 

As far as Theo goes, there are a lot of moves he doesn't make that piss me off (see Mark Teixeira) but not getting A-Rod in '03-'04 is maybe the best non-move in baseball history and in the end, his direction has lead to 2 titles in 5 years to go with 2 ALCS Game 7 appearances and only one season without a postseason berth. His pro scouting could use some work (Jeff Suppan, Eric Gagne, Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo) though.

 

How can you give Theo credit for not acquiring A-Rod? The Red Sox front office wanted to do the deal. The ownership simply wasn't going to pony up all the money to cover his contract. The tried to cut down the deal, and it was rejected by the player's union. Theo was all for acquiring A-Rod...

[The_Destroyah]

but he didnt

[yankees228]

It wasn't his decision.

 

EDIT: There is more to it than the simple fact that the move did not happen.

[The_Destroyah]

what does it matter? we didnt get him the yankees did i dont think that this patiular instance has anything to do with how good/bad a GM is being that a blind deaf and dumb ethiopian with no idea of what baseball is would have gone after a-roid's talent and have thrown as much money as they could at him to get it, im more commenting on his lack of BIG Free Agency spending and its Pros and Cons

[yankees228]

I realize that. I was responding to BoSox21 giving him credit for not making the move (I did quote him).

 

He doesn't deserve credit for that.

[The_Destroyah]

fair enough

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm curious' date=' what have the Red Sox done to "gut" players in the paper?[/quote']

 

see Manny, DLowe, Pedro, Nomar and Johnny Damon. And they even started it with Vtek.

[Gom]

I would take Theo over Cashman in a heartbeat. Hell, I'd take Jacko over Cashman.

[Dutchy]

see Manny' date=' DLowe, Pedro, Nomar and Johnny Damon. And they even started it with Vtek.[/quote']

 

OK, so assuming that the Red Sox front office controls all of the Boston media (as it sounds like you are) what did they say about Manny, Lowe, Pedro, Nomar, Damon or Varitek that wasn't true?

 

Reporting that Manny shoved their travelling secretary and slapped Kevin Youkilis isn't "gutting" him in the media, it's stating facts. That's kind of what reporting is supposed to do.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's airing dirty laundry that shouldnt be leaving the lockerroom. I am sorry, but leaking Petey's medical status, leaking DLowe's womanizing and drinking, leaking Nomar's lack of "dedication", leaking Manny's transgressions, and starting stories about Damon's wife and the negotiations were all underhanded. Do you think these beat writers make s*** up? They get their info from the top and once we start hearing it, you know the player is on their way out

[Dutchy]

That's airing dirty laundry that shouldnt be leaving the lockerroom. I am sorry' date=' but leaking Petey's medical status, leaking DLowe's womanizing and drinking, leaking Nomar's lack of "dedication", leaking Manny's transgressions, and starting stories about Damon's wife and the negotiations were all underhanded. Do you think these beat writers make s*** up? They get their info from the top and once we start hearing it, you know the player is on their way out[/quote']

 

Can you give me one example of the supposedly Red Sox controlled Boston media "leaking" something to the public that wouldn't be news in New York?

 

I mean, you can claim it's underhanded for the Red Sox to somehow leak to the media about Damon's marriage issues, but didn't the New York media report about A-Rod's marriage issues? Reporting contract offers is as standard as it gets. And the team always refused to comment on Lowe's drinking. It's not like it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he has a drinking problem when he's seen drunk at every bar in the city.

 

Seems like an awful lot of speculation on your part, that conveniently paints the Red Sox as bad guys. Frankly, I'm shocked that you of all people would suggest such a thing!

[The_Destroyah]

yeah I dont think New York fans can say much about the Boston Media

[jacksonianmarch]

Can you give me one example of the supposedly Red Sox controlled Boston media "leaking" something to the public that wouldn't be news in New York?

 

I mean, you can claim it's underhanded for the Red Sox to somehow leak to the media about Damon's marriage issues, but didn't the New York media report about A-Rod's marriage issues? Reporting contract offers is as standard as it gets. And the team always refused to comment on Lowe's drinking. It's not like it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he has a drinking problem when he's seen drunk at every bar in the city.

 

Seems like an awful lot of speculation on your part, that conveniently paints the Red Sox as bad guys. Frankly, I'm shocked that you of all people would suggest such a thing!

 

denial

[Dutchy]

yeah I dont think New York fans can say much about the Boston Media

 

To be clear, Jacko isn't criticizing the Boston media, he's criticizing the Red Sox front office for supposedly leaking damaging information about Red Sox players.

[Dutchy]

denial

 

OK, agent Mulder, show me one example of damaging information that was "leaked" by the Red Sox to the media?

 

Surely, if the Red Sox have a history of this, you should be able to come up with one example. Unless of course, you're completely full of ********.

[The_Destroyah]

well that just doesnt make sense period, i really dont see why the front office would want to get rid of Manny, one of the best right-handers of our day, or why they would have wanted to run out petey, and DLowe's drinking was something that half of Boston knew about before a paper ever reported it.

[Dutchy]

well that just doesnt make sense period' date=' i really dont see why the front office would want to get rid of Manny, one of the best right-handers of our day, or why they would have wanted to run out petey, and DLowe's drinking was something that half of Boston knew about before a paper ever reported it.[/quote']

 

Hey, that's Jacko for ya.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/images/330835/0_61_jacko320.jpg

[a700hitter]

Can you give me one example of the supposedly Red Sox controlled Boston media "leaking" something to the public that wouldn't be news in New York?

 

I mean, you can claim it's underhanded for the Red Sox to somehow leak to the media about Damon's marriage issues, but didn't the New York media report about A-Rod's marriage issues? Reporting contract offers is as standard as it gets. And the team always refused to comment on Lowe's drinking. It's not like it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he has a drinking problem when he's seen drunk at every bar in the city.

 

Seems like an awful lot of speculation on your part, that conveniently paints the Red Sox as bad guys. Frankly, I'm shocked that you of all people would suggest such a thing!

You are asking for proof of a conspiracy? There's no formal conspiracy going on, but the same pattern continues time after time. The press either prints glowing articles about ******* players while they are in the good graces of management. They willingly go along with FO cover stories (some would say coverups), i.e. the Manny Being Manny charade. Once the FO no longer has any use for a player and they are showing him the door, a few previously unknown unsavory facts about the player show up in the papers which proceed to strip away the player's public facade and paint a very negative portrait. IMO, the press goes along with the FO's wishes so they get access etc. Once the FO is done with the guy, the Press gets to chop the guy up. That's the favorite part of their job.

[Dutchy]

You are asking for proof of a conspiracy? There's no formal conspiracy going on' date=' but the same pattern continues time after time. The press either prints glowing articles about ******* players while they are in the good graces of management. They willingly go along with FO cover stories (some would say coverups), i.e. the Manny Being Manny charade. Once the FO no longer has any use for a player and they are showing him the door, a few previously unknown unsavory facts about the player show up in the papers which proceed to strip away the player's public facade and paint a very negative portrait. IMO, the press goes along with the FO's wishes so they get access etc. Once the FO is done with the guy, the Press gets to chop the guy up. That's the favorite part of their job.[/quote']

 

A few unsavory things suddenly show up? Unsavory things had been showing up about Manny in the media for years. Do you remember what the press said when he requested a trade in 2005? How about when he showed up late to Spring Training in 2007? Manny being Manny didn't mean he was a saint, it meant we deal with the bad because he's a great hitter.