Trade/DL DiceK?

[TheKilo]

Figured we should have a separate thread for discussion on this topic.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/7775_P_season_mini_4_20090615.png

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/7775_P_season_mini_4_20090615.png

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/7775_P_season_mini_9_20090615.png

 

Lots of talk here that DiceK is due for a correction like Beckett and Lester are experiencing now. While it is nice that he's striking out a batter an inning, his HR/9, BABIP, and AVG are all way up.

 

I think the HR/9 can come down a bit but the startling number is the LD%. His GB% has decreased signficantly as well. What this is telling me is that DiceK's high BABIP isn't bad luck - he's getting shelled.

 

With all this talk about shipping Penny out of town, I think some discussion needs to be placed on DiceK. I'm not advocating trading the guy (although I would not be opposed to it), but I think a DL stint is in his near future to make room for Smoltz.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm on the DL ship. I'm really heistant to trade him just because I don't think he's this bad. DL him for a few weeks, see how things shape with Smoltz in the rotation, go from there.

[a700hitter]

Figured we should have a separate thread for discussion on this topic.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/7775_P_season_mini_4_20090615.png

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/7775_P_season_mini_4_20090615.png

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/7775_P_season_mini_9_20090615.png

 

Lots of talk here that DiceK is due for a correction like Beckett and Lester are experiencing now. While it is nice that he's striking out a batter an inning, his HR/9, BABIP, and AVG are all way up.

 

I think the HR/9 can come down a bit but the startling number is the LD%. His GB% has decreased signficantly as well. What this is telling me is that DiceK's high BABIP isn't bad luck - he's getting shelled.

 

With all this talk about shipping Penny out of town, I think some discussion needs to be placed on DiceK. I'm not advocating trading the guy (although I would not be opposed to it), but I think a DL stint is in his near future to make room for Smoltz.

Can he be optioned to the minors without being DL'd? He's only a third year player.

[Cocos Disciples]

He can't, I believe it's a part of his contract.

[BoSox21]

as painful as it is to go through right now, I think they have to let him work out the kinks in the majors

[Rdsxmbnt]

He can't' date=' I believe it's a part of his contract.[/quote']

 

We can, but he has to approve it

[Cocos Disciples]

Ahh thanks. He probably wouldn't though.

[TheKilo]

as painful as it is to go through right now' date=' I think they have to let him work out the kinks in the majors[/quote']

 

Why?

 

If Smoltz and Buchholz are better options, why can't they DL DiceK and let him work through his issues on a minor league rehab assignment?

[Lived2seeit]

How about Dice-K in the 'pen?

 

If things continue to go south for bard (crossing fingers it doesnt) he could be sent down, and Smoltz brought in, its at least an option

[BoSox21]

Why?

 

If Smoltz and Buchholz are better options, why can't they DL DiceK and let him work through his issues on a minor league rehab assignment?

 

cause neither Smoltz or Buchholz might not necessarily turn out to be better options and if the playoffs started today, I think the team needs a reliable Dice-K to avoid having to put Wakefield in the playoff rotation. If he can work out his issues in the minors, sure but I don't think he'll do it without Dice-K/Boras fighting it

[Dipre]

How about Dice-K in the 'pen?

 

If things continue to go south for bard (crossing fingers it doesnt) he could be sent down, and Smoltz brought in, its at least an option

 

lolwut?

[Cocos Disciples]

onegameonegameonegame

[TheKilo]

His eyes, man - his eyes tell me it will continue to go south

[Dipre]

You know who gave up 9 runs the other day?

 

Johan Santana.

 

I have my fingers crossed that things will not continue to go South for him.

[Cocos Disciples]

He's done! No motivation!

[Lived2seeit]

onegameonegameonegame

 

I know, I know. He's been dominant otherwise (bard), especially the 3 k's against Philly, and I love seeing homegrown players doing well up in the majors, shame on me

[BSN07]

I say DL him. It seems to be the best option at the moment. I have said before I wouldn't mind a trade if it brought back the right player(s).

 

But in the end I think Dice-K has a NTC so trading him might not be as easy as some think.

[ms_sox]

Couple small mentions today that say Saito could be a trade candidate. Which would open up a bullpen spot, if I understand correctly?

 

I'd go with sticking Dice-K in the bullpen for a while, if it could be worked out, in order to be able to evaluate what Smoltz will really have to offer.

[BSN07]

Couple small mentions today that say Saito could be a trade candidate. Which would open up a bullpen spot, if I understand correctly?

 

I'd go with sticking Dice-K in the bullpen for a while, if it could be worked out, in order to be able to evaluate what Smoltz will really have to offer.

 

This is a good option. If Dice-K works out the kinks, and Smoltz shows he might be better suited for the BP they could flip flop. Or if Smoltz pitches well, they could leave Dice-K in the BP all season. Giving his arm a lot of rest while still getting something out of him. It could also lead to Penny being traded. I don't see too much of a downside to this idea.

[SCM33]

He wont be traded. His annual salary is a bargain for his upside, plus the Sox shelled out 51M just to say hi to the guy.

 

Bullpen? No, unless he is mop-up duty, and our pen is too good right now to carry that position. On almost every single baseball team, there are at least 2 relievers who should not be in the big leagues, the problem with Boston is that they have too many guys who SHOULD be in the big leagues, no reason to waste a bullpen slot for him.

 

DL, maybe.....assuming he goes along with the plan and it doesnt backfire on them. I can see them DL'ing him and then Dice-K coming back saying hes fine and he doesnt understand why they are treating him this way, hes a weird dude.

 

The other option is letting him work it out in the BIGs, and I think thats the safest route right now at least. Over the last 2 years, his starts are ugly but you cant argue against the finished product. Every pitcher has a different style of getting wins, DiceKs is just more unconventional, you really cant argue against the numbers hes put up over the last few years. 94 walks last year, thats a shitload.....but when you win 18 games and have a 2.90 ERA and .211 BAA over 30+ starts, its hard to call that a fluke. Some guys pound the zone with strikes, some guys throw junk, some guys throw knuckleballs, some guys throw submarine......Dice-K chooses to nibble, and in Japan he was highly successful doing so, and for the most part here, he has been too albeit at the expense of our patience and aggravation.

[Dipre]

The problem is, you can't sustain the level of dominance Dice-K had last year with men on base.

 

What Dice needs to do is stop being a douche and follow the FO's directive to pound the strike zone, specially with his breaking stuff when ahead in the count.

 

Last year,those were 18 shallow wins , since no one taxed the bullpen on this team like Dice.

[Lived2seeit]

...no one taxed the bullpen on this team like Dice.

 

good point; I don't like seeing MDC or Masterson out there in the 5th inning so often. I'm sure it can be found somewhere the # of innings pitched by our relievers when Dice-K starts compared to other pitcers, first thought would be a fairly big difference.

[BSN07]

68 career regular season starts. So that's 612 possible innings. He has 403.1 career IP. So basically the BP is counted on for 1/3 of the game when Dice-K pitches.

[jacksonianmarch]

His overall numbers arent bad when you look at IP/start over his career, but since 2007 he has been terrible. Since 2007, he has started 36 games and has gone 198.2IP for a 5.5IP/start rate.

[a700hitter]

68 career regular season starts. So that's 612 possible innings. He has 403.1 career IP. So basically the BP is counted on for 1/3 of the game when Dice-K pitches.

He should give them part of his salary.

[Lived2seeit]

5.5 IP ??!!! I don't have any figures to compare that to, but that sounds awful...I'm not ssaying ship him out, but thats just a grimacing number

[jacksonianmarch]

for comparison, that is only 0.2IP per start more than Joba is giving us this yr, and Joba is in his first yr of starting at the MLB level.

[Dipre]

for comparison' date=' that is only 0.2IP per start more than Joba is giving us this yr, and Joba is in his first yr of starting at the MLB level.[/quote']

 

The irony in this post is delicious.

[Lived2seeit]

The irony in this post is delicious.

 

 

grrr <_>

[Dipre]

grrr <_>

 

You seem to not know Jacko.

 

I talk about the irony in this post because he's always polishing Joba's rod and talking about how awesome he is, however, he unknowingly admitted how much Joba has actually sucked this year.

 

He may have somewhat solid peripherals, but the way he taxes the bullpen is eerily similar to Dice-K's, which was only the knock Jacko had on him.