Yankees Stifle another young arm: Hughes to the pen

[ORS]

I'm sorry, but inconsistency means he hasn't translated it to the big leagues. Kris Benson tosses out a good game now and then, but he sucks as a starter because he's inconsistent. Hughes should be developing his consistency in the 'pen where they can regulate the importance of the innings he pitches.

 

Arsenal, arsenal, purple monkey dishwasher.

[jacksonianmarch]

Last 4 starts...

23IP 20H 10ER 7BB 23K for a line of 3.91ERA 9K/9IP 1.17WHIP. I'd say he's getting more consistent as he goes along.

 

ORS slamming a yankee player, ORS slamming a yankee player, purple monkey dishwasher.

 

Has a good ring to it

[TheKilo]

SSS?

[Dipre]

I wonder how can Jacko criticize Gom when he uses the same "i'll clinge desperately to any bit of data" technique that Gom does.

 

It's annoying.

 

And retarded.

[ORS]

Last 4 starts...

23IP 20H 10ER 7BB 23K for a line of 3.91ERA 9K/9IP 1.17WHIP. I'd say he's getting more consistent as he goes along.

 

ORS slamming a yankee player, ORS slamming a yankee player, purple monkey dishwasher.

 

Has a good ring to it

Where am I slamming him? Look at the gamelog of those 4 games.

 

Two "meh" starts where he was lucky to only give up 3 ER in 5 IP (2 HR each start), brilliant, and s*****.

 

Calling that inconsistent isn't slamming anyone. It's calling it what it is, inconsistent. Or does it only sink in with you if I say he had an inconsistent "arsenal".

[BoSox21]

don't even try and suggest he was toe-tapping through machine gun fire in any of those starts either

[jacksonianmarch]

I said he was inconsistent. You went on the tangent of comparing him to a pitcher who is completely washed up, as if it was luck or something. Listen man, Hughes is young. Young kids are inconsistent, we both agree there. I just wouldnt classify Hughes as someone in limbo. More, as someone who is still refining his pitches and gaining arm strength. It really is difficult to label someone as being in limbo when they have been injured for most of the last 2 yrs. The only limbo they are in, is the DL.

[Gom]

This is similar to Earl Weaver's strategy of bringing up pitching prospects in the bullpen.

 

By the way, Roy Halladay shouldn't be on that list. He was atrocious in 2000, and got sent all the way down to A ball. Randy Johnson made one relief apperance his sophomore season, but made 28 starts.

 

It's really five out of twenty. This is the clearest example of your extremely poor deduction skills. You took the names of the BEST 20 ACTIVE PITCHERS IN BASEBALL (what an awesome sample to pick from), found a few that were somewhat close to your point, and thought what you said was valid.

 

Really lazy. Really stupid.

 

EDIT* I actually agree with the strategy, but this was really poor. Even for Gom.

Exactly which sample did you want me to pick? The worst 20? The middle 50? The top 10? If I had picked the top 10, it would be even more skewed in my argument's favor.

 

No matter what I picked, it would be open for critique, unless I went through everyone, which I have no desire to do. What I'm saying is that it is common to have starters work themselves into the rotation from the pen. It usually does not have negative effects like ending careers as Jacko would have you believe.

 

Randy Johnson was an error on my end. He shouldn't have been included. Still, if you eliminate Johnson, does it really change at all my statement "nearly 30%" of all starters worked out their kinks in the pen? No, it does not. Case closed, my friend.

Not to mention this is the "qualified" list from B-R. "Qualified" at B-R usually means at least 1000 IP. There are a truckload of good young pitchers who have not spent appreciable time in relief and are likely to end up on this list once they become "qualified".

 

I also agree with the strategy. Once a pitcher has proved he can repeatedly dominate minor league hitters, but is stuck translating that to the big leagues as a starter, then the next thing to do is see if you can wean him into the league.

ORS, I took the top 20 ACTIVE pitchers in their career when it came to ERA. As usual, you make no sense. If the young pitchers make it on the list, they make it on the list. No matter what, it has been done for so long, and so often, it doesn't matter. My point still stands.

 

Your second point, weaning him into the league, is exactly what I've been saying. Best post you've had in years. So basically you're agreeing with me. He has nothing to prove in AAA, and he should go to the pen. Which leads us to...

 

And I completely agree with that. But I dont think Hughes is stuck transitioning. I think he has shown that he can really handle major league hitters. He's inconsistent' date=' as most 22 yr olds are, but he can handle big league hitters. My concern comes in with his revamped arsenal and his innings cap. I want him to reach the 150-160 innings mark more than anything. And I want him to refine the location of his 2 seamer, cutter and spike curve all pitches that are either new or tweaked from before. A goal for Hughes in my mind is having him comfortable with his arsenal, and capable of throwing 180-190 innings next yr without having the FO and Girardi have convulsions[/quote']

Jacko, this is one of your better posts. Hughes cannot yet handle major league hitters, as his ERA, WHIP and pretty much every other metric, as well as watching the game and seeing him be AJ Burnett with his location with far from electric stuff.

 

Here's another point I'm trying to make. An innings cap is only important if you actually DESERVE it. Hughes has to EARN it. He has to show that he BELONGS in the rotation. Part of the reason, if not THE reason we didn't have baseball in October in the Bronx was that Hughes and Kennedy were given spots in the rotation without proving they belonged. Just take a look at what the Red Sox are doing with Masterson, and the Yankees did with Joba. Show you can pitch in the pen, then we'll move you into the rotation. I'm not saying that EVERY pitcher should do that...but it's not uncommon to work them in that way.

 

Back to my point...Hughes will NEVER get to that innings limit if he keeps putting up the numbers he's been putting up. Do I expect him to improve? I do, but I'm skeptical on how much. However, worry about the innings cap when he actually shows it matters.

 

So Jacko ALSO agrees with me in the end. How bizarre. Maybe they're finally learning.

I wonder how can Jacko criticize Gom when he uses the same "i'll clinge desperately to any bit of data" technique that Gom does.

 

It's annoying.

 

And retarded.

Ah..DipreG chimes in with two cents, doesn't add anything of value, and comes off feeling smart. The usual.

[Dipre]

Ah..DipreG chimes in with two cents' date=' doesn't add anything of value, and comes off feeling smart. The usual.[/quote']

 

You unmasked me.

 

I'm so ashamed.

[ORS]

The reason, which should be blantantly obvious to able minded folk, I brought up the point of being "qualified" is that there are several young "unqualified" that many, even yourself, would put in the current top-20 pitchers.....right now. If they were, the composition of the list would change, and not in your favor.

 

Even so, I agree with the stategy, and not because of some arbitrary list. It's a good strategy because it makes sense. I think your argument is better served by ignoring specific examples, which there are for both sides, and focussing on the fact that Phil Hughes is having a struggle at getting MLB hitters out consistently, and he'd be better served by limiting his exposure. Baby steps.

 

Jacko got all pissy because I compared him to Kris Benson. He's got a short memory. Benson was a highly touted prospect. If Phil Hughes continues to pitch like he has, Kris Benson would be a complimentary comparison.

[Dipre]

The reason, which should be blantantly obvious to able minded folk, I brought up the point of being "qualified" is that there are several young "unqualified" that many, even yourself, would put in the current top-20 pitchers.....right now. If they were, the composition of the list would change, and not in your favor.

 

Even so, I agree with the stategy, and not because of some arbitrary list. It's a good strategy because it makes sense. I think your argument is better served by ignoring specific examples, which there are for both sides, and focussing on the fact that Phil Hughes is having a struggle at getting MLB hitters out consistently, and he'd be better served by limiting his exposure. Baby steps.

 

Jacko got all pissy because I compared him to Kris Benson. He's got a short memory. Benson was a highly touted prospect. If Phil Hughes continues to pitch like he has, Kris Benson would be a complimentary comparison.

 

Forget it, ORS, Gom wouldn't recognize common sense if it grabbed him by the balls.

 

Not only is he a f***ing idiot, he also comments on things he doesn't even know (Gameday says hello).

 

So it's typical for his comments to contain a diarrhea of stupidity and self-importance.

 

He seems to try so hard to prove his points, overcompensating for a small penis perhaps?

 

It's like the 5'0 guy with an F-350, but Gom's F-350 is made of stupid comments and lack of a logical premise to stand on.

 

How 'bout that for my 2 cents, pencil-dick?

[Gom]

ORS is right, Benson was a highly touted prospect. I'm just not sold on a guy with 4 pitches, but poor control and a mediocre fastball. I really hope I'm wrong on him. ORS, what I was saying is that sending him to the minors won't be beneficial to him or the team as much as it would be to keep him here. He had good stats there, and the team needs a decent arm up here. Kilo asked me to list the pitchers who started in the pen, and I did so. That's about it. Kills you to pretty much agree with me, doesn't it?

 

Oh DipreG, you made me laugh more than anyone here in months.

 

An F-350?

 

That's hysterical. I know your kind lives on pick-up trucks, but I'm a city boy. If you wanted to make a comparison, you should have used a Porsche, not a f***ing pickup truck. Only you dude..only you.

 

As for pencil dick, ask your sister. She told me mine was bigger, but I also tipped her a dollar. Who really knows?

[Dipre]

ORS is right, Benson was a highly touted prospect. I'm just not sold on a guy with 4 pitches, but poor control and a mediocre fastball. I really hope I'm wrong on him. ORS, what I was saying is that sending him to the minors won't be beneficial to him or the team as much as it would be to keep him here. He had good stats there, and the team needs a decent arm up here. Kilo asked me to list the pitchers who started in the pen, and I did so. That's about it. Kills you to pretty much agree with me, doesn't it?

 

Oh DipreG, you made me laugh more than anyone here in months.

 

An F-350?

 

That's hysterical. I know your kind lives on pick-up trucks, but I'm a city boy. If you wanted to make a comparison, you should have used a Porsche, not a f***ing pickup truck. Only you dude..only you.

 

As for pencil dick, ask your sister. She told me mine was bigger, but I also tipped her a dollar. Who really knows?

 

I don't have sisters, but if you're talking about my cousin who lives in New York, she's so ugly that she works as an extra in horror movies......the monster's extra.

 

Figures.

 

That's the only kind of ass you're gonna get.

 

As for the Porsche, you're too poor to buy one and i didn't want to rub it in, but if you want me to......

 

As for you being a city boy, so am i, i'd rather live in the nice part of the city of Santo Domingo here in D.R, and not in the near-homeless shelter of NY where you reside.

 

Carry on.

[diony]

I don't have sisters, but if you're talking about my cousin who lives in New York, she's so ugly that she works as an extra in horror movies......the monster's extra.

 

Ha.

[Gom]

As for you being a city boy, so am i, i'd rather live in the nice part of the city of Santo Domingo here in D.R, and not in the near-homeless shelter of NY where you reside.

 

Carry on.

I guess that when you say nice part of the city, you mean you have indoor toilets?

[Dipre]

I guess that when you say nice part of the city' date=' you mean you have indoor toilets?[/quote']

 

Unlike your hut in front of Yankee Stadium, yes, we have indoor plumbing.

 

Or perhaps you live in your taxi?

[Gom]

You need new material.

[Dipre]

You need new material.

 

You need a new taxi.

[Cocos Disciples]

You need new material.

 

Ironic? Stick with "Diaper" and "Mow my loan" plz.