DiceK due back Friday?

[jacksonianmarch]

Thats the rumor set by rotoworld. That would likely move Masterson to the pen, a guy who had been the sox second most reliable starter.

[BoSox21]

so then what? you move Penny, Beckett or Lester to the bullpen?

[Dipre]

so then what? you move Penny' date=' Beckett or Lester to the bullpen?[/quote']

 

LOL

 

Common sense WIN.

[BSN07]

so then what? you move Penny' date=' Beckett or Lester to the bullpen?[/quote']

 

I'd put him in Lester's spot. Give Lester a mental break. These 1 inning implosions might be starting to wear on him. He' get's a mental break, some rest to help keep him fresh, Dice-K gets into the rotation, Masterson gets at least one more start before heading back to the BP. I know it's not a solution, but it buys another week or so. And you never know what could happen in that week.

[ORS]

I'll say what Crespo has been saying. If Jon Lester needs a break from the mental strain of the results on the field (which I don't think is the case for a cancer survivor), then they should trade him right now. Period.

 

It's baseball game. He didn't lose a 2 y/o patient on the operating table.

[BSN07]

I'll say what Crespo has been saying. If Jon Lester needs a break from the mental strain of the results on the field (which I don't think is the case for a cancer survivor), then they should trade him right now. Period.

 

It's baseball game. He didn't lose a 2 y/o patient on the operating table.

 

 

Maybe a mental break is a bad phrase to use here. Maybe just an adjustment period. Kind of just regroup. I have no doubt the Lester is mentally tough.

[mvp 78]

Say goodbye to Penny. The bullpen has done fine without Masterson.

[a700hitter]

Say goodbye to Penny. The bullpen has done fine without Masterson.

I don't think that is going to happen. He has a $5 million guarantee, and he has been pitching better lately. He's going nowhere.

[mvp 78]

I don't think that is going to happen. He has a $5 million guarantee' date=' and he has been pitching better lately. He's going nowhere.[/quote']

 

I just don't see him doing anything in the bullpen. He doesn't have the demeanor for it and I think he'd see it as a demotion. Masterson has more upside starting than Penny.

[Dojji]

We're looking at the distinct possibility of needing to trade a pitcher for a bat. We may wind up solving some of our problems that way.

[BSN07]

If Penny can put together 1 or 2 more solid starts, it's a good possibility he get's traded.

 

They could look at Texas, they might be looking for pitching. A number of NL contenders could likely use Penny as well. He has value. Throw in a prospect or two and it could be a major deal. If it's just Penny himself, then I wouldn't expect the return to be too exciting.

 

I've been reading around on some Ranger boards. The general opinion there is Chris Davis 1B/DH is available. They have some big time prospect on the heels of replacing him, Smoak is his name I believe. Davis lacks plate discipline but is a big power LH bat, and those don't grow on trees.

 

What about a Penny/Bowden(Masterson.Hadagone)/MDC+1 additional prospects for Teagarden and Davis?

[Dojji]

i wonder what it'd take to get Kila Ka'aihue from the Royals. He's sort of blocked right now behind Jacobs and Butler.

 

I would trade Masterson straight up for Ka'aihue.

[jacksonianmarch]

Kila is a AAAA player if I ever saw one.

[BSN07]

Kila is a AAAA player if I ever saw one.

 

He will now be a HOF by the end of his career.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Penny can put together 1 or 2 more solid starts, it's a good possibility he get's traded.

 

They could look at Texas, they might be looking for pitching. A number of NL contenders could likely use Penny as well. He has value. Throw in a prospect or two and it could be a major deal. If it's just Penny himself, then I wouldn't expect the return to be too exciting.

 

I've been reading around on some Ranger boards. The general opinion there is Chris Davis 1B/DH is available. They have some big time prospect on the heels of replacing him, Smoak is his name I believe. Davis lacks plate discipline but is a big power LH bat, and those don't grow on trees.

 

What about a Penny/Bowden(Masterson.Hadagone)/MDC+1 additional prospects for Teagarden and Davis?

 

That would be quite a package, but I still wouldnt think it was enough. Think about it this way. The catcher spot has become the holy grail of prospect-dom over the past few yrs. It used to be SS's, then it was CFer's for a short while, then it was pitchers, and now its catchers. It always seems to follow wherever the dearth of talent at the MLB level is. And right now, there just arent enough quality catchers to tip the scales in favor of that position. That being said, Teagarden and Salty are probably two of the three most highly touted MLB ready catching prospects in baseball (Wieters being the other). Getting either of them will cost a Bowden, Buchholz or Masterson. Thats a given. Then onto Chris Davis, who is a 1b/3b who is 23 and hits the ball a mile. He's already had a solid MLB season last yr with his .880OPS and he's showing more power this yr with 10 homers already. So you are talking about Penny and MDC plus another prospect for him? That's not enough unless that other prospect was Lars, especially since Penny has next to no worth and he cannot be dealt until June 15th anyway since he was a FA signee.

[BSN07]

That would be quite a package' date=' but I still wouldnt think it was enough. Think about it this way. The catcher spot has become the holy grail of prospect-dom over the past few yrs. It used to be SS's, then it was CFer's for a short while, then it was pitchers, and now its catchers. It always seems to follow wherever the dearth of talent at the MLB level is. And right now, there just arent enough quality catchers to tip the scales in favor of that position. That being said, Teagarden and Salty are probably two of the three most highly touted MLB ready catching prospects in baseball (Wieters being the other). Getting either of them will cost a Bowden, Buchholz or Masterson. Thats a given. Then onto Chris Davis, who is a 1b/3b who is 23 and hits the ball a mile. He's already had a solid MLB season last yr with his .880OPS and he's showing more power this yr with 10 homers already. So you are talking about Penny and MDC plus another prospect for him? That's not enough unless that other prospect was Lars, especially since Penny has next to no worth and he cannot be dealt until June 15th anyway since he was a FA signee.[/quote']

 

Lars isn't going to carry much value for Texas. They already have a stud waiting in the wings to replace Davis. I agree that Bowden for Teagarden is good value for both sides. I also think Penny/MDC/+1 High level prospect(or 2 mid-low level guys, Reddick/Alamanzar) would be a decent haul for Davis. He only has 1 full season and change in the bigs, is not much of an AVG guy and K's a lot. But if the Sox can coach him up, he could be an extremely good player.

 

 

This would be a solid trade for both ends. Davis give the Sox a power bat for 1B/3B/DH. Teagarden will be the Catcher of the future. Texas Gets a solid SP for this season. A legit SP prospect. A legit late inning flamethrower for the BP. Plus 1 or 2 more prospects. And get to bring in there guy in Smoak at 1B.

[jacksonianmarch]

it would be a solid trade for the sox. There is no way in God's green earth that Davis for MDC/Penny/1 other prospect not names Lars is enough for Davis. No way. You undervalue him significantly.

[BSN07]

it would be a solid trade for the sox. There is no way in God's green earth that Davis for MDC/Penny/1 other prospect not names Lars is enough for Davis. No way. You undervalue him significantly.

 

I'm not under valuing him. I'm saying that Texas may not value Lars as High as some other teams would. They have a big time 1B prospect. Why would they want another one? If there is to be other prospects in the deal, Lars most likely won't be one of them, unless it's a three team deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

So, breaking it down

 

Salty for Bowden --- check

 

How bout

Buchholz and MDC for Davis

 

Those two are value for value deals.

[Dojji]

Salty for Bowden --- check

 

There's been no indication that the Rangers consider Bowden a fair price for Saltalamacchia.

[jacksonianmarch]

there have been rumors, especially in the off season that the Sox asked about the price for Salty. The Rangers GM named 3 players of which he'd take one. You know the three. Theo hung up the phone.

[example1]

How bout

Buchholz and MDC for Davis

 

Those two are value for value deals.

 

Really? Really? Is Davis that good?

 

I don't want to gush all about Buchholz here, but he's still a potential #1 starter and he's pitching great at AAA right now. He's proven everything he needs to in the minors. I don't think Buchholz + anyone is done for any player, except maybe Hanley Ramirez.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's 24. He has hit 27 homers in under 3/4 of a season. He can play both 3rd and 1st. And he is hitting for more power thus far this yr. Guys like that do not come cheap. Thing between him and Buchholz is that Davis has proven he can be a middle of the order bat for the big squad. Buchholz has proven he handles minor leaguers but has had trouble in the bigs. We arent talking about a one yr rental in his mid 30s.

[example1]

I'll say what Crespo has been saying. If Jon Lester needs a break from the mental strain of the results on the field (which I don't think is the case for a cancer survivor)' date=' then they should trade him right now. Period. [/quote']

 

He should just spend some time talking to Wakefield. Talk about a guy who has regularly gotten pummelled throughout his career and then manages to throw 8 ip of 2 hit ball.

 

Overall, I simply don't think Lester is having that much of a problem right now. Yes, his numbers don't reflect dominance, but his stuff looks pretty good most of the time. He will pull it together sometime this season. It is a LONG season and we're about 1/4 of the way through it. If he's in the same spot half way through then I'll get worried.

[example1]

He's 24. He has hit 27 homers in under 3/4 of a season. He can play both 3rd and 1st. And he is hitting for more power thus far this yr. Guys like that do not come cheap. Thing between him and Buchholz is that Davis has proven he can be a middle of the order bat for the big squad. Buchholz has proven he handles minor leaguers but has had trouble in the bigs. We arent talking about a one yr rental in his mid 30s.

 

Although I disagree about Davis being more valuable than a Buchholz (who would have been starting in TEX for the past 2 years), I think the more important point is that the Red Sox have a 1b/3B power hitting player who has proven he can hit big league pitching. Not that they won't want another one, but a front of the rotation starter with electric stuff is more valuable to a team like Boston.

[ORS]

He's 24. He has hit 27 homers in under 3/4 of a season. He can play both 3rd and 1st. And he is hitting for more power thus far this yr. Guys like that do not come cheap. Thing between him and Buchholz is that Davis has proven he can be a middle of the order bat for the big squad. Buchholz has proven he handles minor leaguers but has had trouble in the bigs. We arent talking about a one yr rental in his mid 30s.

He's also struck out 142 times in 3/4 of a season and only has an OBP of .316. The power is nice, but it's the only thing going for him. He hasn't proven to be a middle of the order bat. He needs to make better contact, he needs to get on base at a better clip. Then he's middle of the order. Right now, he's a guy you put at the back of the lineup and hope someone is on when the he's goes pop.

 

Buchholz is flawed in that he's had success but been inconsistent (stating he has only struggled is a lie). Davis is flawed in that he's shown he can hit the ball out of the park, but he's got a lot of work before he's an elite hitter. In terms of ceiling, both of these guys could be perrenial all-stars. Stating that the Sox would need to offer more in this deal is nothing more than you devaluing without cause. It's your emotional reaction.

 

Get some tissues ready and consider this, what if the offer was Davis for the Phranchise? Now, now, don't cry at the thought of trading away the Phuture, but is that equal value? Before he came up and dropped his suck-bomb, I would have said yes.

[BSN07]

So, breaking it down

 

Salty for Bowden --- check

 

How bout

Buchholz and MDC for Davis

 

Those two are value for value deals.

 

I said Bowden for Teagarden, not Salty.

 

I don't see Texas trading Salty during the season. Maybe in the offseason if they don't move Teagarden.

 

I think MDC, Penny +1 would be fair for Davis. Davis is a legit power threat. But has enough flaws to where he shouldn't command a kings ransom. I'm not sure who that +1 would be. I guess it would depend on what Texas values most. I guess a 3B prospect might intrigue them considering Blalock is in his walk year I believe. Maybe another pitching prospect, or some lower level high end guys might be the ticket.

 

I know Davis has his issues. But given the Sox's knack for tweaking hitters and making them better, he could have huge potential upside.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

So, breaking it down

 

Salty for Bowden --- check

 

How bout

Buchholz and MDC for Davis

 

Those two are value for value deals.

Why the s*** would we trade two top prospects for a lefty hitter who calls Rangers Ballpark home? Make a stupider trade proposal please.

[jacksonianmarch]

Davis is a 3b though. Thats the thing. You are talking about a kid who is 24, can play both 3b and 1b and is a masher. No, he doesnt walk, yet. He might as his career moves on. But one thing that makes him more valuable than anything is that he's needed. Blalock is gone after the season. Davis plays 3b well. And that opens up first for Smoak.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Davis is a 3b though. Thats the thing. You are talking about a kid who is 24' date=' can play both 3b and 1b and is a masher. No, he doesnt walk, yet. He might as his career moves on. But one thing that makes him more valuable than anything is that he's needed. Blalock is gone after the season. Davis plays 3b well. And that opens up first for Smoak.[/quote']

If he's not a walker now, he will never be a proficient walker. Power comes. Players don't go from Jeff Francoeur to J.D. Drew, or even close.

 

Blalock's the guy I want if I'm trading with Texas. We wouldn't have to give up that much, and its commitment free if he flops.