Breaking News: Manny Suspended 50 Games for PEDs

[rician blast]

Yep. Here's my steroid rule: If you played in the late 80s or 90s, or began your career in the 90s, you used steroids until they were banned by the league. Then you switched to HGH and whetever elite athletes use today.

 

So I'm not surprised. I'd say Pujols, Ortiz and Howard will eventually be outed as well.

 

I don't really judge players anymore either. I'd deny them the HOF if caught but I don't hate them for using. It's just the way it was back then.

 

Pretty much where I stand...kind of guilty until proven innocent. And Pujols and Howard and Ortiz are on my list along with a whole shitload of guys I don't feel like posting right now.

 

As for the HOF? Let 'em in, keep 'em out, I don't really fkn care, I'm not a HOF fan.

[jacksonianmarch]

in regards to its relevance in this case' date=' would it serve as a masking agent as well or does it simply jump start the testosterone after a steroid use cycle?[/quote']

 

I dont really remember the pathway, but I have read a few studies that state that the serum concentration of testosterone increases significantly after a single does of hCG.

[TedWilliams101]

Honestly, though, are we really all that "ashamed" that many many athletes (lets not just limit this to baseball) have done what ever they could do gain an edge. The only difference (to me) between taking PED and any other ways athletes looked for an edge in the history of man kind is in the effectiveness. Baseball players have always looked for an edge; spit balls, stealing signals, using altered bats, taking greenies, now PEDs. Same goes for any other sports. I honestly don't think anyone could argue that this same exact scenario wouldn't happen if steroids were available back when Ruth played the game.

[Spudboy]

its not really a fertility DRUG per se' date=' it is a marker of pregnancy and is a hormone that assists in keeping the pregnancy going.[/quote']

 

You seem to understand human physiology better than the average fan. Do you work in the health care industry? Medical background?

[ARod2212]

Taking a break from my thesis to say this-

 

God damn. I'm not shocked, but I figured it was possible that Manny was just the idiot savant who knew how to hit.

 

I'm just glad we can silence the retards who said Boston's titles were clean. There weren't many of them, but they were loud in their stupidity. It was frustrating.

 

Back to work.

[rician blast]

I dont really remember the pathway' date=' but I have read a few studies that state that the serum concentration of testosterone increases significantly after a single does of hCG.[/quote']

 

 

Doc,I'll chime in a bit on this...having worked in a gym back in college...and been a "conduit", shall we say, for dudes who wanted 'roids I can relate my experience with HCG:

 

Human Chorionic Gonadatropin (HCG) was something 'roid users ALWAYS got with an order for 'roids. So if the guy wanted Anavar, Testosterone, Deca-Durabolin, Dianabol, Winstrol, etc. he was ALWAYS supplied with a SERM...a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator...for post-cycle usage.

 

What HCG did was combat the shut down of an individuals natural testosterone production and help avoid the unwanted side effects of going off cycle...i.e. bitch tits, fat gain, loss of the lean muscle gains they achieved from the 'roids, and boost the individuals own test production.

 

However, there also were a number of times guys asked for HCG alone...not because they were going off a steroid cycle, but simply to enhance their natural testosterone production...they did it both for sexual enhancement and because it helped them get bigger/stronger without the shut-down of their own (endogenous? Riv?) test production.

 

If the substance turns out to be HCG, then I think there are three possibilities. (1) Manny wanted to boost his sex drive or (2) Manny was looking for an increase in natural testosterone production to enhance his baseball performance or (3) he was using it as a post-cycle therapy, meaning he had juiced in the not too distant past.

[BoSox21]

Pretty much where I stand...kind of guilty until proven innocent.

 

How does any baseball player get proven innocent?

 

You seem to understand human physiology better than the average fan. Do you work in the health care industry? Medical background?

 

He's a doctor.

[Dipre]

All i'm gonna say is:

 

Ain't Karma a bitch?

 

He sabotaged his way out of Boston to get more money, he loses a bit of money in the process, and now gets banned for $8 mill (he don't care about the games), for using a cock-enhancer.

 

Ah, in such strange ways does hilarity ensue.

[rician blast]

How does any baseball player get proven innocent?

 

I don't know. That's the unfortunate part of this.

 

To be fair, and more accurate, I should adopt ORS's word "assumed" when I talk about PED use. It's gotten to the point where if a guy's production spikes, or if he gets even the slightest bit bigger/stronger the assumption is that he's using.

 

I simply don't find myself thinking "wow, he must have worked very hard in the offseason." Years ago? Sure, that's what I thought when a guy came out and tore it up. Now? I can't help but think the player is using.

[Redguitar985]

I was at work when I got a text about this. Wow. I, too, though will have to group myself with the ones saying they were disappointed but not surprised.

 

I read that the drug he was taking helps restore lost testosterone, and steroid use depletes testosterone. He said he passed 15 drug tests over the last five years, but I heard HGH can't be picked up by drug tests. Is that true? If so, then maybe he was using steroids before this, maybe for a while, and he decided to stop. He wanted to restore testosterone in his body, and his doctor gave him the wrong drug. The question then would be, why did he stop.

 

Oh well, at least he didn't do it in Boston. Good thing Epstein made the call and got rid of him last year.

[Mr Crunchy]

You seem to understand human physiology better than the average fan. Do you work in the health care industry? Medical background?

 

Hes a patient at Bridgewater State Hospital after escaping from Bellvue in NY.

Jack2aKing is a Doctor and shows flashes of intelligence from time to time.

[Cocos Disciples]

Taking a break from my thesis to say this-

 

God damn. I'm not shocked, but I figured it was possible that Manny was just the idiot savant who knew how to hit.

I'm just glad we can silence the retards who said Boston's titles were clean. There weren't many of them, but they were loud in their stupidity. It was frustrating.

 

Back to work.

 

Every title in the past decade (at least) is tainted if the basis is one positive tester.

[BoSox21]

I just don't want to ever get to the point where I'm cynical enough to automatically think that anyone who improves at the game is improving cause of PEDs. I love the game too much to allow that and it would affect my love for the game if I became that cynical. If it comes at the price of being duped every now and then, so be it.

[RobiForMVP]

This disappoints me...

All thought he didn't use it for baseball..

[Dipre]

I just don't want to ever get to the point where I'm cynical enough to automatically think that anyone who improves at the game is improving cause of PEDs. I love the game too much to allow that and it would affect my love for the game if I became that cynical. If it comes at the price of being duped every now and then' date=' so be it.[/quote']

 

That statement is just about to explode with WIN, and it is a stance we should all try to emulate.

[TedWilliams101]

I think that you always have to consider that professional athletes will do just about anything in their power to get an edge. These are just "fans" of the sport who want everything "clean" and perfect. They are competitive athletes trying to be the best and make the most money. Its just the way it is (and likely always has been). If you want clean, pure sports, go watch little league. Maybe in the future it will be possible to have a pure league.

 

Maybe its just me, but I wouldn't put it past anyone. I honestly believe that if Baby Ruth, Hank Aaron, etc had access to steroids, they might very well use them. Who knows, they might have experimented with ways to improve their game that might be considered "cheating" if it worked. Heck, it's been claimed that Willie Mays used to use a greenie called "Red Juice". I enjoy sports, especially played at the highest level for the highest stakes, even though it means that there might be cheating, attempts to cheating, etc going on. When the stakes are high, people will do anything to win.

[Cocos Disciples]

However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is HCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO.

-per ESPN

 

EDIT: Already posted, my bad.

[rician blast]

I was at work when I got a text about this. Wow. I, too, though will have to group myself with the ones saying they were disappointed but not surprised.

 

I read that the drug he was taking helps restore lost testosterone, and steroid use depletes testosterone. He said he passed 15 drug tests over the last five years, but I heard HGH can't be picked up by drug tests. Is that true? If so, then maybe he was using steroids before this, maybe for a while, and he decided to stop. He wanted to restore testosterone in his body, and his doctor gave him the wrong drug. The question then would be, why did he stop.

 

Oh well, at least he didn't do it in Boston. Good thing Epstein made the call and got rid of him last year.

 

True, they do not currently test for HGH. HGH would not have depleted his test levels, to my knowledge, so I don't see the HCG connection with HGH.

 

Read my post above, I have a little experience with this stuff, at least from the perspective of what guys used and why.

 

As far as post-cycle drugs, like HCG, are concerned, while HCG may not be specifically a female fertility drug (as it does have valid use as a male testosterone enhancer) there are such drugs being used post-cycle by heavy 'roid users.

 

Clomid is female fertility enhancement drug that guys are using post-cycle.

 

Then there is a drug called Nolvadex. What is it? Oh, it's a drug prescribed for women who are at a high-risk for developing breast cancer. Each of these drugs supresses estrogen spikes that are common after a steroid cycle. I'd be willing to bet they're all on the banned substance list.

[example1]

One can't help but wonder what this says about Manny's past use. Did he regularly show up at Spring Training late so he could clear his system? I really hate that Manny is nailed, like everyone else disappointed but not surprised.

 

This should be a referrendum on Manny--of course--but it should also be one on Scott Boras, whose clients have continually been caught up in this s*** and who keeps playing as if he has the strongest hand at the table. Hopefully teams will soon start finding ways to get assurances from the all-knowing Boras that his clients aren't using. This is really a shame for the Dodgers, who are getting screwed already by Manny and his contract demands.

 

I agree with the earlier post: Jason Bay > Manny Ramirez.

[Mr Crunchy]

f*** the Dodgers, they paid this guy with his baggage well known to everyone.

Someone tell Frank Mccourt to pay his rent now that he saves 8M.

[BoSox21]

This should be a referrendum on Manny--of course--but it should also be one on Scott Boras, whose clients have continually been caught up in this s*** and who keeps playing as if he has the strongest hand at the table.

 

Scott Boras' job is to negotiate the best possible contract for his clients and to generally stick up for them in all baseball-related matters. Why should he be held accountable if his clients CHOOSE to use PEDs? Blame rests solely on the player, no one else.

 

Hopefully teams will soon start finding ways to get assurances from the all-knowing Boras that his clients aren't using.

 

If they even care about the PED issue, teams should be doing for any player they sign anyway. If they choose to ignore the issue, then they get what they deserve when the guy is suspended.

[Mr Crunchy]

Manny was clean on 15 tests and his #s were very consistant in Boston till he started declining in 07.

The idea that the sox titles are tainted is pure f***ing nonsense just as NY's are legit from 96-98-00.

 

another case of desperate yankee fans who should are pulling their pricks looking for a reason,any reason at all, to gloat at our expense.Manny never tested positive in Boston and hes not on this years team thats 5-0 against NY...Give it a rest.

[rician blast]

On WFAN some callers went down the "Red Sox championship is tainted" path. Loved it when the callers were told, by a Yankee fan, that the Red Sox have been the better team this decade and that they are better now.

 

Anyone turning this into a Yankee-Red Sox thing is a fkn douche.

[Redguitar985]

True, they do not currently test for HGH. HGH would not have depleted his test levels, to my knowledge, so I don't see the HCG connection with HGH.

 

Read my post above, I have a little experience with this stuff, at least from the perspective of what guys used and why.

 

As far as post-cycle drugs, like HCG, are concerned, while HCG may not be specifically a female fertility drug (as it does have valid use as a male testosterone enhancer) there are such drugs being used post-cycle by heavy 'roid users.

 

Clomid is female fertility enhancement drug that guys are using post-cycle.

 

Then there is a drug called Nolvadex. What is it? Oh, it's a drug prescribed for women who are at a high-risk for developing breast cancer. Each of these drugs supresses estrogen spikes that are common after a steroid cycle. I'd be willing to bet they're all on the banned substance list.

 

Are there any other steroids or PEDs that wouldn't come up in the drug tests besides HGH? As much as I'd like to believe Manny was juicing before, it's a valid point that he hasn't failed any drug tests before, and he's been taking them for the last five years.

[RedSoxRooter]

It's probably because the testing has gotten better. He got busted for masking agent and nothing really more.

[rician blast]

Are there any other steroids or PEDs that wouldn't come up in the drug tests besides HGH? As much as I'd like to believe Manny was juicing before' date=' it's a valid point that he hasn't failed any drug tests before, and he's been taking them for the last five years.[/quote']

 

Besides HGH? Not sure.

 

There is a shitload of stuff you can buy over the counter that essentially provides the same performance improvement as Androstendione (remember? found in Mark McGwire's locker?) did before it was banned in the US. I don't know if those compounds are on MLB's banned substance list. Brand names such as Epistane, Havoc, 6-Oxo, 3-AD, Halodrol, Superdrol are all over the market products "designer steroids" that teens and adults are using.

 

The cynic in me says that there are likely sources you can go to, quite possibly outside of the US, that have developed anabolic products that are not detectable in MLB's tests. As for HGH itself, my guess is that it's use is fairly common, since they don't yet test for it.

 

If the drug he tested positive for was HGH, I think it's important to note it is NOT a masking agent. Males use it generally either post-cycle or as a testosterone booster. It doesn't hide anything else you've taken.

[Redguitar985]

On WFAN some callers went down the "Red Sox championship is tainted" path. Loved it when the callers were told, by a Yankee fan, that the Red Sox have been the better team this decade and that they are better now.

 

Anyone turning this into a Yankee-Red Sox thing is a fkn douche.

 

I think it's pretty clear to any baseball fan who's followed it the last few years and seen all the prominent names busted for steroids that baseball is no different than any sport, and the players will juice if they think it will boost their performance and get them a better contract. I would not be surprised if we found out down the road Manny or another player on the Red Sox had been juicing in '04.

 

One thing I was thinking about earlier is why people are so crazy about it in baseball, but could care less about steroids in other sports. Guys like Rodney Harrison and Shawn Merriman got busted in the NFL, but the outcry wasn't nearly as big as it has been in baseball. It has to be because baseball is the American pastime, and people want it to be a clean sport, right? When you think of baseball, you think of apple pie, summer nights, and anything else happy, right? And since most people see steroid use as cheating, that doesn't their image.

 

Haha, I'm now thinking of that George Carlin joke about the differences between baseball and football, if anyone knows it.

[Redguitar985]

Besides HGH? Not sure.

 

There is a shitload of stuff you can buy over the counter that essentially provides the same performance improvement as Androstendione (remember? found in Mark McGwire's locker?) did before it was banned in the US. I don't know if those compounds are on MLB's banned substance list. Brand names such as Epistane, Havoc, 6-Oxo, 3-AD, Halodrol, Superdrol are all over the market products "designer steroids" that teens and adults are using.

 

The cynic in me says that there are likely sources you can go to, quite possibly outside of the US, that have developed anabolic products that are not detectable in MLB's tests. As for HGH itself, my guess is that it's use is fairly common, since they don't yet test for it.

 

If the drug he tested positive for was HGH, I think it's important to note it is NOT a masking agent. Males use it generally either post-cycle or as a testosterone booster. It doesn't hide anything else you've taken.

 

Manny's from the Dominican Republic. Maybe they had something there? Yeah, I don't know.

[ORS]

Yes' date=' I was. You must not be. What he is claimed to have taken isn't some Viagra drug. All you ever do is just call people idiots, blah. Don't be stupid.[/quote']

At the time of your post, the one where the assumption was clear indication of a career's worth of usage, the banned substance had not been reported.

 

I don't call people idiots, I call idiots idiots. Some of them just happen to be people, like you.

[ORS]

If they even care about the PED issue' date=' teams should be doing for any player they sign anyway. If they choose to ignore the issue, then they get what they deserve when the guy is suspended.[/quote']

I'm surprised we haven't seen a void clause for PED use yet. Anyone know if the MLBPA was able to get these excluded in the last CBA?

 

If I'm an owner in the current climate, I put them in any contract of appreciable time. That is, I do if I'm serious about reversing the culture of the game.