Right handed hitters better than Manny:

[MANNYHOF24]

A-Rod may have overall more power, but fundamentally speaking Manny is the better hitter.

[rhet]

In the regular season with a 9th inning ten run lead, nobody is a better hitter than Arod.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

There is no clear standard. If one guy has more HR's and the other a much higher average' date=' a judgment needs to be made.[/quote']

 

Why should HR be the deciding factor? Any number of things, like injuries or games played in general, can come into play there. The other stats judge a guy's play when he's in the lineup, so he can't be penalized for missing games or whatever.

[TheKilo]

Well, the argument could be made that counting stats hold merit in the fact that part of a player's worth is staying on the field.

[MANNYHOF24]

Well' date=' the argument could be made that counting stats hold merit in the fact that part of a player's worth is staying on the field.[/quote']

 

We are talking strictly batting in this thread. There is little doubt that Arod has more total value. Nobody is really arguing that.

 

 

Edit- nevermind I didn't realize you weren't talk about Manny/Arod completely anymore.

[cobra24]

List them, one at a time...

 

1. Albert Pujols

2.

 

man you really need to get a clue.. go check the stats from last year!

[Jasonbay44]

Doug Mirabelli

[Cocos Disciples]

man you really need to get a clue.. go check the stats from last year!

 

If we're just looking at 2008:

 

Pujols: .357/.462/.653/1.114; 37 HR; 190 OPS+

Ramirez: .332/.430/.601/1.031; 37 HR; 164 OPS+

[TheKilo]

man you really need to get a clue.. go check the stats from last year!

 

If we're just looking at 2008:

 

Pujols: .357/.462/.653/1.114; 37 HR; 190 OPS+

Ramirez: .332/.430/.601/1.031; 37 HR; 164 OPS+

 

lulz

[Mr Crunchy]

What a circle jerk this thread is, nobody mentioned Cap Anson or Pie Trainor??

What the f*** kind of commitee is this?

Arod?...please, nobody who hits under .100 in the playoffs need apply here, that guy has a bone in his throat and is a disgrace to the game much more than Barry Bonds was, this guy needs his image consultants to get it together because hes become a joke and a stain on the great game of baseball.

Manny is the all time home run hitter in the post season,

Arods # is the internation symbol for choking.

Pujols is playing in AAAA ball but if you insist on saying hes better at this stage of his career i wont argue.

Joe Dimaggio?, if he played in St Louis you'd never really here about him like you rarely hear about Stan Musial, who belongs in this argument because he was a better hitter than dimaggio and there isnt a human being over 60 outside the douchebags from NY who would argue this.

Aaron and Mays?

Ok now you're on to something, Aaron was incredibly consistant over his entire career and the older baseball guys say Mays was the best to ever play the game.

Problem I have is watching these 2 guys at the end of their careers, Mays was a shell of himself when he came back to NY and Aaron finished up as a DH in Milwaukee and I saw him K 3 times against the sox in a game back in 75 and I think Reggie Cleveland was pitching... still, over the course of careers these 2 men were simply the best in the game.

Some put Mantle in their category but based on #s he simply doesnt belong, he had 4 seasons of 100RBI or better where as Mays and Aaron,playing on inferior teams, had many more.

Plus these guys played during the time of the mound being raised, look at the dramatic drop off in #s on all these guys in 1968.

 

Some food for thought

Mannys slugging pct for his career is .593

Mays slugged at .557

Aaron slugged at .555

Hornsby, now thats an interesting character, i think he hit .424 1 year and won 2 triple crowns but his power #s werent close to Mannys over time but did he have some seasons or what

heres the best season ever as far as im concerned in 1922.

42hrs 152rbi and .401??

AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG

623 141 250 46 14 42 1 152 65 - 50 15 - 1 - .401 459 .722

1924#s

536 121 227 43 14 25 0 94 89 - 32 13 - 2 - .424 .507 .696

43 94 and 424?

What is considered the dead ball era? ruth broke out in 1920 i believe but not even ty cobb could rival rogers hornsby in his day.

[rhet]

Joe Dimaggio?, if he played in St Louis you'd never really here about him like you rarely hear about Stan Musial, who belongs in this argument because he was a better hitter than dimaggio and there isnt a human being over 60 outside the douchebags from NY who would argue this.

 

Crunchy, this thread is about right handed hitters. If we include lefties, like Musial, and switch hitters, the list of better hitters than Manny is much longer.

 

Also, there is no doubt in my mind that Dimaggio was a better hitter than Manny. A 420 foot left field reduced his numbers, as did his military service, and he was still better.

[rician blast]

Position shouldn't matter. Was he or is he a better hitter?

 

Juan Gonzalez in his prime was possibly better....

 

Are you Rhetarded?

[CrespoBlows]

1. Hornsby

2. Pujols

3. Foxx

4. Mays

5. Thomas

6. DiMaggio

7. McGwire

8. Greenberg

[CrespoBlows]

What a circle jerk this thread is, nobody mentioned Cap Anson or Pie Trainor??

What the f*** kind of commitee is this?

Arod?...please, nobody who hits under .100 in the playoffs need apply here, that guy has a bone in his throat and is a disgrace to the game much more than Barry Bonds was, this guy needs his image consultants to get it together because hes become a joke and a stain on the great game of baseball.

Manny is the all time home run hitter in the post season,

Arods # is the internation symbol for choking.

Pujols is playing in AAAA ball but if you insist on saying hes better at this stage of his career i wont argue.

Joe Dimaggio?, if he played in St Louis you'd never really here about him like you rarely hear about Stan Musial, who belongs in this argument because he was a better hitter than dimaggio and there isnt a human being over 60 outside the douchebags from NY who would argue this.

Aaron and Mays?

Ok now you're on to something, Aaron was incredibly consistant over his entire career and the older baseball guys say Mays was the best to ever play the game.

Problem I have is watching these 2 guys at the end of their careers, Mays was a shell of himself when he came back to NY and Aaron finished up as a DH in Milwaukee and I saw him K 3 times against the sox in a game back in 75 and I think Reggie Cleveland was pitching... still, over the course of careers these 2 men were simply the best in the game.

Some put Mantle in their category but based on #s he simply doesnt belong, he had 4 seasons of 100RBI or better where as Mays and Aaron,playing on inferior teams, had many more.

Plus these guys played during the time of the mound being raised, look at the dramatic drop off in #s on all these guys in 1968.

 

Some food for thought

Mannys slugging pct for his career is .593

Mays slugged at .557

Aaron slugged at .555

Hornsby, now thats an interesting character, i think he hit .424 1 year and won 2 triple crowns but his power #s werent close to Mannys over time but did he have some seasons or what

heres the best season ever as far as im concerned in 1922.

42hrs 152rbi and .401??

AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG

623 141 250 46 14 42 1 152 65 - 50 15 - 1 - .401 459 .722

1924#s

536 121 227 43 14 25 0 94 89 - 32 13 - 2 - .424 .507 .696

43 94 and 424?

What is considered the dead ball era? ruth broke out in 1920 i believe but not even ty cobb could rival rogers hornsby in his day.

 

Really? Albert Pujols wouldn't effected one bit playing in the AL. He's been the best hitter in the game, ever since Bonds started to decline.

[J-Beck]

Well seeing as how I have very little respect left for Manny, I could probably name off about 300 of them, but I won't.

 

The best right handed hitter in the league is Albert Pujols, without a doubt.

 

Living in St. Louis these last few years has really opened me up to how amazing of a player he is.

[Cocos Disciples]

Well seeing as how I have very little respect left for Manny, I could probably name off about 300 of them, but I won't.

 

The best right handed hitter in the league is Albert Pujols, without a doubt.

 

Living in St. Louis these last few years has really opened me up to how amazing of a player he is.

 

You may hate him (Manny), but you still gotta admit he's damn good. And yes, Pujols is better.

[J-Beck]

You may hate him (Manny)' date=' but you still gotta admit he's damn good. And yes, Pujols is better.[/quote']

 

I'll say this. He's damn good when he wants to be. But this appears to be only a small fraction of the time. I remember last year they showed him on ESPN running out a ground ball that the shortstop bobbled repeatedly. It took him something like 6+ seconds to reach first, which would have many players almost at second by then.

 

Last year with the Dodgers I believe he was playing for a new contract. I believe soon enough he'll show his true colors to Dodgers fans.

[Cocos Disciples]

Maybe a new contract, maybe he was just happy to be out of Boston.

 

Welcome to the site by the way, I hope you stick around.

[example1]

This is the most absurd thread I've seen in a long time. So many arguments, so few numbers provided to back it up.

 

Of course we should be using numbers, and there are numbers we could agree to use that have been painstakingly crafted to provide a comprehensive view of a player's seasons. Win Shares, VORP, WARP1, 2 or 3, OPS+, are a few examples. Or we could look at counting stats because, as Kilo correctly pointed out, it is worth looking at counting stats because the better hitter is the one who actually plays consistently for his team.

 

The list of career OPS+ RHHs better than Manny is very similar to Crespo's list... that seems like a decent start. I don't know about McGwire, but his numbers were really solid despite his drawbacks. I think it is also important to include switch hitters. Mickey Mantle hit RH thousands of times and put up good numbers there. Yes, he was a switch hitter, but he could hit RH pretty damn well.

[CrespoBlows]

Does anyone know where you can find the top EqA leaders of all time? I couldn't find that list, but I did stumble upon this:

 

http://www.cs.uga.edu/~dkl/1010/Fall02/homework.html

 

f***ing greatest class ever.

[JimEdHOF2009]

ARod>/=Manny

 

This^^ right here is why you are a clown and nobody takes your opinion seriously. Get a fuggin clue you myopic, fanboy, ninny.

 

 

Manny Ramirez has a lifetime OPS of 1.004

 

Arod has a lifetime OPS of .967

 

It is a pretty well know fact that OPS is the truest measure of how good a hitter actually is...

 

A-rod is nowhere near the hitter Manny is...not even close. The question was best right-handed HITTER..moron.

 

Manny is also a World Series MVP...something Choke-Rod will never be.

[CrespoBlows]

This^^ right here is why you are a clown and nobody takes your opinion seriously. Get a fuggin clue you myopic' date='[b'] fanboy, [/b]ninny.

 

 

Manny Ramirez has a lifetime OPS of 1.004

 

Arod has a lifetime OPS of .967

 

It is a pretty well know fact that OPS is the truest measure of how good a hitter actually is...

 

A-rod is nowhere near the hitter Manny is...not even close. The question was best right-handed HITTER..moron.

 

Manny is also a World Series MVP...something Choke-Rod will never be.

 

It's good, but there are better metrics.

[Dipre]

Still, there's no question (if you add postseason resume) that Manny Ramirez is a better hitter than A-Rod. He might not be the better athlete or the better ballplayer, but he's the better hitter.

[Cocos Disciples]

Does anyone know where you can find the top EqA leaders of all time? I couldn't find that list, but I did stumble upon this:

 

http://www.cs.uga.edu/~dkl/1010/Fall02/homework.html

 

f***ing greatest class ever.

 

:o University of Georgia? I was already considering that...word.

[Mr Crunchy]

Really? Albert Pujols wouldn't effected one bit playing in the AL. He's been the best hitter in the game' date=' ever since Bonds started to decline.[/quote']

 

Sure,

in a league where Chris Carpenter and Brandon Webb won Cy Youngs, where Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson won Cys in their 40s and dominated, he wouldnt be effected coming to the American League one bit?

Tim Lincecum was the best pitcher in the national league last year.

Come on,

Ryan Dempster is a stud in the National League...

Ted Lilly and Jamie Moyer get national league hitters out for chrissakes...

Jeff Suppan?

Maddox and Glavine were on major league rosters last year.

Joelle Piniero,a guy we waived in 06 got 25 starts for the cards last year.

Rudy Seanez was pitching meaningful innings for Philly last year??

Julian Tavares is the 8th inning guy in DC.

Hows Dontrelle Willis doing these days in the American League?

Damaso Martes era went up 2 runs from the nl central to the al east last year while sabathias #s dropped 2 runs in a switch from the al central to the nl central.

Is this a coincidence or proof that the American League is a better product from top to bottom in every aspect of the game with the exception of perhaps the running game.

Im not taking anything away from Pujols and what hes accomplished but i do question the level of competetion hes facing.

his career #s are outstanding and theres only a few guys in history who can compete with his stats....Manny Ramirez being one of them.

I do think he would be facing much tougher competetion in the American League and I dont think you can argue this fact with a straight face.

would he have similar #s if he played in Anaheim or NY or Boston?

perhaps but i doubt it.

I dont think there would be a dramatic decline in average but I would predict a drop off of power since he wouldnt be facing Cincinatti Pittsburgh Milwaukee Houston and Chicago 18xs a year.....

Manny single handedly took LA to the playoffs, he makes the entire roster better just by showing up and hes averaged an RBI a game since arriving in the AAAA league and hes on the decline.

I wonder how many homeruns would Manny have hit facing this calvacade of suck AAA pitching?

He was the best hitter in the last 2 months of last year after moving to the NL West, which by every and any account has the best pitchers ball parks in the game.

put him in the NL Central where he gets to hit in these bandboxes and face horrible pitching and the #s over his career wouldve staggered the world of baseball as he did at the end of last year.

Manny Ramirez is the best right handed hitter i have ever seen bar none.

Harmon Killebrew may be the most powerful right handed hitter i saw and couldve hit 75 hrs if he played 81 games a year in Fenway but Manny was the most consistant right handed hitter ive seen thru the years.

his hitting technique should be the model for every little league coach in the country.

Arod, McGuire,Juan Gonzalez?

What the f*** kind of nonsense is going on here.

[CrespoBlows]

Let's not discount McGwire's shocking domination of baseball during his five year stint in St. Louis. His numbers in Oakland alone are pretty close to Ramirez'.

 

Steroids and everything, I would put Manny ahead of McGwire.

 

Definitely not ahead of Pujols. Manny has had three years where his numbers have surpassed Pujols' career average. Insanity. I would have loved to see Pujols taking shots at the Green Monster in his prime. However, you are absolutely correct when you talk about Pujols' and the AL. In a 423 AB sample, Pujols has hit .350 in interleague play, with a slight drop in power. His OPS is still a robust 1.036, which still has him comfortably ahead of Ramirez.

[BoSox21]

Pujols is a great hitter, not good, but great. And great hitters will hit any kind of pitching.

[Binga46]

Bay, his stats last year were similar to Manny's. And if that's Bay's peak, compared to Manny nearing the end, those numbers are still good. not as good a hitter though. I'd go Pujols.

[Cocos Disciples]

^ Bay isn't even close, comparing careers, to Manny.

[rician blast]

Steroids and everything, I would put Manny ahead of McGwire.

 

 

That's not exactly going out on a limb. McGwire's name shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread.

 

Aaron, Mays, Manny, Pujols, Foxx, Hornsby absolutely are in the discussion.

 

DiMaggio? Not so sure, as Crunch said, put him in another city and his status goes down.

 

ARod..in my mind he's closer than some give him credit for, but he's not in the group above, lack of clutch being one reason.

 

I'm still shaking my head over Juan Gon and McGwire.