C.M. Wang would have...

[yankees228]

Served the Yankees better on another team. I'm not a fan of him. This is not reactionary...I have never been.

 

Proof: http://www.talksox.com/forum/damn-yankees/9529-struggles-c-m-wang.html

 

He is so overrated in my opinion. They could have had so much for him in a trade. He beats up on the poor and impatient offensive teams, which is something many MLB pitchers are capable of. He relies so much on one pitch. If that is not working, he has no chance. I posted a lot of stats to back up my point in that other thread. I'm just too pissed at the Yankees right now to take the time to update that research at the moment.

[diony]

It's his 2nd start of the season.

[yankees228]

It's his 2nd start of the season.

 

This is not reactionary to this year. Over the course of his career, he has generally performed poorly against the better teams in the league (mainly on the road).

[Keeper]

Wang has looked atrocious, but approximately 3 seasons of effectiveness in a consistently tough division doesn't exactly support your claim. Besides, the Rays are hot as f*** right now. When you're lost on the mound and you're facing guys who are locked in, the results tend to favor the other guys.

[TheKilo]

Didn't the Rays just lose 2/3 to Baltimore?

[Keeper]

They had an offensive explosion yesterday. They beat Baltimore 11-3.

[Dojji]

Let's face it -- so far in the early going the whole division is in play for all 5 spots. Everyone's either hot or better than we thought they'd be, and the Yankees and Sox are firmly at the bottom of the division with Boston getting the worst of it.

[TheKilo]

They had an offensive explosion yesterday. They beat Baltimore 11-3.

 

So one game constitutes hot as f***?

[yankees228]

Wang has looked atrocious' date=' but approximately 3 seasons of effectiveness in a consistently tough division doesn't exactly support your claim. Besides, the Rays are hot as f*** right now. When you're lost on the mound and you're facing guys who are locked in, the results tend to favor the other guys.[/quote']

 

I feel like you didn't read anything I wrote, or anything I wrote in the other thread that I linked. He has won a lot of games. But wins are an awful way to define the true value of a pitcher. He is very average. And if his one pitch is not doing what he wants it to, then he's not going to be effective, and he could get killed (see earlier tonight).

 

Because of this fact, I would rather anyone else on the mound (that are members of the Yankees' pitching staff) besides him. My point was that he is perceived by as being better than he actually is, in my opinion. Because of this, they should have sold high on him, and they probably still could. This has very little to do with his first two starts, they simply prompted me to make this thread.

[Keeper]

So one game constitutes hot as f***?

 

Two games now. Don't take out your frustration with your team on me.

[TheKilo]

Two games now. Don't take out your frustration with your team on me.

 

Wang has looked atrocious' date=' but approximately 3 seasons of effectiveness in a consistently tough division doesn't exactly support your claim. [b']Besides, the Rays are hot as f*** right now[/b]. When you're lost on the mound and you're facing guys who are locked in, the results tend to favor the other guys.

 

It was one game when Wang took the hill tonight.

[Keeper]

I feel like you didn't read anything I wrote, or anything I wrote in the other thread that I linked. He has won a lot of games. But wins are an awful way to define the true value of a pitcher. He is very average. And if his one pitch is not doing what he wants it to, then he's not going to be effective, and he could get killed (see earlier tonight).

 

Because of this fact, I would rather anyone else on the mound (that are members of the Yankees' pitching staff) besides him. My point was that he is perceived by as being better than he actually is, in my opinion. Because of this, they should have sold high on him, and they probably still could. This has very little to do with his first two starts, they simply prompted me to make this thread.

 

Speaking of not reading what someone wrote... when did I ever mention wins? He's not an elite pitcher, but he's hardly "very average."

[Keeper]

It was one game when Wang took the hill tonight.

 

But not when I made the f***ing post. 26 combined runs says they are locked in, and you're being an ass right now.

[yankees228]

Speaking of not reading what someone wrote... when did I ever mention wins? He's not an elite pitcher' date=' but he's hardly "very average."[/quote']

 

You referred to his time in the MLB as "effective". The area that he has been most effective in is wins. He was only slightly above average last year in terms of ERA, and his ERA in the two previous seasons (2006 and 2007) was only a little better. He's been decent, but my main point is that he is vastly overrated and should have been traded (or should be traded).

[TheKilo]

But not when I made the f***ing post. 26 combined runs says they are locked in' date=' and you're being an ass right now.[/quote']

 

Holy crap it's not that difficult to understand.

 

You said the Rays were hot as f***, even before Wang took the mound tonight.

[Keeper]

Here's an idea. STFU. When I said they were hot as f***, I kind of took into account what they had just done to the Yankees. That was understood by everyone but you. Quit arguing for the sake of arguing. It's annoying.

[jacksonianmarch]

this is a stupid, reactionary post. Fact is, at the time of injury, Wang had been the winningest pitcher in either division over the last 2.5 yrs. You dont do that by accident. Something is wrong with him right now. I did not get to see the game, but my guess, once again is that he couldnt keep the sinker down.

[TheKilo]

Here's an idea. STFU. When I said they were hot as f***' date=' I kind of took into account what they had just done to the Yankees. That was understood by everyone but you. Quit arguing for the sake of arguing. It's annoying.[/quote']

 

[BoSox21]

Regardless of how hot a team can possibly be, how can that be used to justify just how incomprehensibly bad Wang has been in his two starts?

 

Even the Sox would be shelling Wang the way he's pitching right now

[yankees228]

this is a stupid' date=' reactionary post. Fact is, at the time of injury, Wang had been the winningest pitcher in either division over the last 2.5 yrs. You dont do that by accident. Something is wrong with him right now. I did not get to see the game, but my guess, once again is that he couldnt keep the sinker down.[/quote']

 

Again, not my point. The idea of the thread is that the Yankees should have traded him because he seems like the perfect guy to sell high on.

[Gom]

So when should they have traded him? Before of after the injury? He was 9-2 when he got hurt. You weren't going to trade him when he was injured and sell low. So when exactly did you think the Yankees should have made the deal?

[yankees228]

So when should they have traded him? Before of after the injury? He was 9-2 when he got hurt. You weren't going to trade him when he was injured and sell low. So when exactly did you think the Yankees should have made the deal?

 

Again, please stop using wins to define the success of a pitcher.

 

Second, I would have traded him after 2007, and not just because of how he pitched in the playoffs. I feel like many teams would have overlooked his two bad playoff starts, and still have been willing to offer up a lot for him. I remember hearing at the time that he could have been the center piece in a deal for Santana.

 

And again, in my first post of this thread I posted a link to another thread I started in August of 2007 about Wang. So clearly I'm not second guessing here. I've felt this way all along.

[yankees228]

Jacko, are anyone who knows for that matter...

 

Is Wang out of options, or can he be sent down?

 

EDIT: I just read he can't be sent down.