2009 Yankees Game Thread

[diony]

Absolutely not. I've been saying the same things before' date=' and I specifically remember saying it in his last start. Common, you've watched his games. Say what you want about Joba, but he rarely hits his spots.[/quote']

 

He's not an established ace.

[yankees228]

He's not an established ace.

 

Never said he was. I would be the first person to say that his bullpen stint in 2007 created ridiculous expectations for him. Joba, overall, has had very good results considering his age and amount of experience.

 

However, everything I said is true. He has never been able to hit spots with his fastball. When he pitched out of the bullpen, he got away with it, because he had more velocity. The same isn't true with him starting. On top of that, he seems to be getting a lot less swings and misses on his slider. I'm not advocating that they send him back to the bullpen. However, his lack of control is a concern to me.

[Dutchy]

Reactionary post.

 

It's not at all a reactionary post. He's been saying it for a while and he's right. Joba walks about 4.5 batters per 9 and has a WHIP around 1.50. He goes to more 3-2 counts than any other pitcher in baseball. He does not have good control.

[jacksonianmarch]

Joba is a first yr MLB starting pitcher in the most difficult division in baseball. Remember that. He has electric stuff and the propensity to become an ace. But he wont be doing that right away. As a first yr starter in the bigs, he has been wildly inconsistent. He's gone from looking like a dominant front end ace to looking like a lost kid on the mound when missing the zone consistently. This is expected.

[Dutchy]

Joba is a first yr MLB starting pitcher in the most difficult division in baseball. Remember that. He has electric stuff and the propensity to become an ace. But he wont be doing that right away. As a first yr starter in the bigs' date=' he has been wildly inconsistent. He's gone from looking like a dominant front end ace to looking like a lost kid on the mound when missing the zone consistently. This is expected.[/quote']

 

He has electric stuff as a reliever. As a starter, he's still got a great slider, but now he has a straight low 90's fastball instead of that plus high 90's fastball.

 

The biggest difference between Chamberlain last year and Chamberlain this year is that instead of having a fastball that's 8.6 runs above average (ability to prevent runs), he now has a fastball that's -8.5 runs above average.

[Gom]

I agree with Dutchy. I think that as he is, he is a mediocre pitcher and a bullpen killer. I'm disappointed I haven't seen more velocity from him.

[Dipre]

I agree with Dutchy. I think that as he is' date=' he is a mediocre pitcher and a bullpen killer. I'm disappointed I haven't seen more velocity from him.[/quote']

 

I'm calling it now, the Yanks fix Joba's mechanics or discover the injury that's preventing him from finding mechanical consistency, and he comes back next year 95+, albeit his command will still be in question

 

Expect "lolwut" from me as soon as he regains his velocity..

[Dutchy]

I'm calling it now, the Yanks fix Joba's mechanics or discover the injury that's preventing him from finding mechanical consistency, and he comes back next year 95+, albeit his command will still be in question

 

Expect "lolwut" from me as soon as he regains his velocity..

 

If anything, it appears that Joba's velocity gets better as his games go on, so I'm not sure if I personally believe your mechanics theory. I think the issue is more that without his plus fastball, he tends to nibble a lot more and gets himself into trouble with all the baserunners he allows.

[yankees228]

I agree with Dutchy. I think that as he is' date=' he is a mediocre pitcher and a bullpen killer. I'm disappointed I haven't seen more velocity from him.[/quote']

 

I don't understand why people are more worried about his velocity, when his lack of control is the real issue in my opinion.

[Dipre]

If anything' date=' it appears that Joba's velocity gets better as his games go on, so I'm not sure if I personally believe your mechanics theory. I think the issue is more that without his plus fastball, he tends to nibble a lot more and gets himself into trouble with all the baserunners he allows.[/quote']

 

You need to carefully watch him while pitching.

 

You'll pick it up fairly easily.

 

His delivery is not the same pitch to pitch.

[yankees228]

Looks like we have Ian Kennedy part two...

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090705&content_id=5706850&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

[Gom]

Looks like we have Ian Kennedy part two...

 

Joba has at least had success in the majors.

[jacksonianmarch]

He has electric stuff as a reliever. As a starter, he's still got a great slider, but now he has a straight low 90's fastball instead of that plus high 90's fastball.

 

The biggest difference between Chamberlain last year and Chamberlain this year is that instead of having a fastball that's 8.6 runs above average (ability to prevent runs), he now has a fastball that's -8.5 runs above average.

 

I'd venture to guess that his curveball is still plus. His biggest issue is fastball command, something he is learning, albeit slowly. But those who thought he would be absolutely lights out in yr 1 as a starter was crazy. I predicted this. And I also predicted that the heater would be a bit slower as Joba learns how to pitch. It will take some time.

[Dutchy]

I'd venture to guess that his curveball is still plus. His biggest issue is fastball command' date=' something he is learning, albeit slowly. But those who thought he would be absolutely lights out in yr 1 as a starter was crazy. I predicted this. And I also predicted that the heater would be a bit slower as Joba learns how to pitch. It will take some time.[/quote']

 

In his 3 years in the majors, his curve has never been "plus". It was 0.3 runs above average in 2007, -0.2 runs above average in 2008 and it's 1.6 runs above average this year. His slider is his only pitch that's better than 2 runs above average as a starter. His slider is 5.9 runs above average, his fastball is -8.5, his curve is 1.6 and his change is -2.4.

[jacksonianmarch]

that is not how a pitch is determined to be plus. It has more to do with break and velocity. I would say that absolutely, his curveball is a plus pitch.

[Dutchy]

that is not how a pitch is determined to be plus. It has more to do with break and velocity. I would say that absolutely' date=' his curveball is a plus pitch.[/quote']

 

What does it matter if the pitch has "plus" "break and velocity" when it leads to more runs than it prevents? You can talk all you want about your subjective opinion on how good his curve is, but the stats show that it's average. It may have been better when he was in the minors (he probably got a lot more swings on pitches out of the zone) but at no point during his major league career has it lead to positive results over the course of a year in actual games.

[Dutchy]

Jeter gets thrown out trying to steal third with no outs. What intangibles!

 

(Base hit on the next pitch.)

[Dipre]

that is not how a pitch is determined to be plus. It has more to do with break and velocity. I would say that absolutely' date=' his curveball is a plus pitch.[/quote']

 

For a pitch to be considered "plus" the pitcher must be able to throw it for strikes with some semblance of consistency.

[Gom]

Well..we're underway and hopefully we can put the broom to Toronto's ass.

[Dutchy]

Rod Barajas RBI single.

 

1-0 Jays

[yankees228]

Jeter gets thrown out trying to steal third with no outs. What intangibles!

 

(Base hit on the next pitch.)

 

For what it's worth, Rolen never tagged him until he was on the bag. However, it doesn't excuse what Jeter did. Romero was really struggling in the first, and he only deserved one of the outs he recorded (the strikeout of Posada). I really don't like most people stealing in general, but this is clearly one of the worst situations to do it in.

[The_Destroyah]

nice job Jays for that inning

[Dipre]

For what it's worth' date=' Rolen never tagged him until he was on the bag. However, it doesn't excuse what Jeter did. Romero was really struggling in the first, and he only deserved one of the outs he recorded (the strikeout of Posada). I really don't like most people stealing in general, but this is clearly one of the worst situations to do it in.[/quote']

 

Trying to steal 3rd with no outs is one of the stupidest things a baseball player can attempt.

 

In that situation, a groundout and a fly ball score a run.

 

So the risk isn't worth the potential gain.

[Gom]

It's not a stupid play if you can make it. The reality of it is the umpire missed the call. It happens.

[The_Destroyah]

Ugly swing by Hill on that DP grounder why was he reaching for that?

[yankees228]

Trying to steal 3rd with no outs is one of the stupidest things a baseball player can attempt.

 

In that situation, a groundout and a fly ball score a run.

 

So the risk isn't worth the potential gain.

 

I realize that. I said what Jeter did was inexcusable...

 

Bad call there has to chance to really hurt.

[yankees228]

And the call just killed the Yankees.

[The_Destroyah]

if i was a yankee id forgive jeter there being that he consistently makes good decisions at the plate on the bases and on D he is easily the Yankee that i respect the most with A-roid and Posada being the ones i respect the least...hahahaha nice job Rios the yanks fans know how to help there team haha

[TheKilo]

Jays are totally sellers at the deadline.

 

Hopefully they can salvage one game from this mess.

[Dutchy]

3-run home run by Rios.

 

4-0 Jays