Piazza a CHEATER!

[26 to 6]

According to the book, "The Rocket That Fell To Earth" about Roger Clemens, author Jeff Pearlman touched on Piazza in the chapter about the 2000 World Series.

 

"According to several sources, when the subject of performance enhancing was broached with reporters he especially trusted, Piazza fessed up.

 

"Sure, I use," he told one. "But in limited doses, and not all that often." (Piazza has denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but there has always been speculation.)"

 

"Whether or not it was Piazza's intent, the tactic was brilliant: By letting the media know, off the record, Piazza made the information that much harder to report. Writers saw his bulging muscles, his acne-covered back. They certainly heard the under-the-breath comments from other major league players, some who considered Piazza's success to be 100 percent chemically delivered."

 

Former Boston Red Sox first baseman Reggie Jefferson tells Pearlman, "He's a guy who did it, and everybody knows it. It's amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched."

 

Another veteran player agreed, saying, "There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids."

 

According to Pearlman, when that player is asked what are the odds, on a scale of 1 to 10, that Piazza had used PEDs, the player replies:

 

I've always liked Piazza, but I just wanted to throw this out there. I don't think anyone would be particularly surprised to learn this is true.

[BSN07]

Not the least bit surprising.

[Keeper]

No, not surprising at all. But it begs the question: who is the best offensive catcher of all time, now that Piazza is disqualified? (Rodriguez is also disqualified because we all know he juiced as well)

 

Cochrane

Berra

Bench

Fisk

Carter (just for shits and giggles)

[BSN07]

Fisk or Berra.

 

But both will probably be surpassed by someone who is currently playing. There are some really good offensive Catchers out there.

[TheKilo]

Johnny Bench

[CrespoBlows]

Yeah, it's Bench.

 

Roy Campanella should be up there.

[a700hitter]

I agree that it is Bench. Campy needs to be in the conversation. What about Joe Torre?

[BoSox21]

Hard to say anyone else really stacks up to Bench

[TheKilo]

Josh Gibson

[David Bowie]

Bench.

[ORS]

Bench from the MLB, but several of the Negro Leagues players who transitioned over to the MLB say Gibson was the best ball player, period, they've ever seen. It's unfortunate he was never given a chance to play at the highest level.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Bako

[26 to 6]

Bako

My money is on Kelly Stinnett.

 

All time though it's definitely Gibson. Major Leaguers then it's bench, with Yogi a close second, IMO.

[David Bowie]

Honestly, nothing surprises anymore regarding this s***. I just assume anybody who was a superstar in baseball in the late 90's, early 2000's took juice up the ass.

[YAZMAN]

Johnny Bench

 

Bench and Fisk are really close, although Fisk had to have at least 1,000 more ABs.

 

I think many of the guys who saw him play would say Munson would possibly have had a shot at that distinction had his career not been cut short. I'd like to get Rician and Crunch's take on that. I know I hated the guy while he was playing, he was a wicked hard-nosed, snotty player. But at the same time I respected the guy's ability. He put up impressive numbers, was wicked clutch, and was just a little shy of Fisk and Bench in the power department.

[TheKilo]

Bench is the better offensive catcher and the much better defensive catcher of the two. Fisk is overrated thanks to one swing of the bat.

[example1]

Gibson was a beast.

[SCM33]

I know Ive researched Gibson before, and it was estimated that he hit nearly 800 homeruns. I havent looked him up lately, but since this discussion Ive done a little web surfing. When did official records determine that nearly 600 of his career home runs do not count because they were against inferior competition? This is news to me....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Gibson

 

Another website shows basically the same thing, with a little more gratitude towards his numbers:

http://sports.jrank.org/pages/1645/Gibson-Josh-Career-Statistics.html

[YAZMAN]

Bench is the better offensive catcher and the much better defensive catcher of the two. Fisk is overrated thanks to one swing of the bat.

 

Closer than you think offensively. The SIM rating here is very relevant as they both played the same position so they start out on an even playing field.

 

Fisk: 887

Bench: 887

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/scomp.cgi?I=fiskca01:Carlton+Fisk&st=career

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/similarity.shtml

[BoSox21]

In terms of Gibson, I think it deserves to be mentioned that he played an average of 31 games a year in the Negro Leagues, a far cry from the grueling schedule major league catchers had to endure

[YAZMAN]

Interesting...who discredits this because they rank Varitek an "A" list catcher at 33rd all time offensively?

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/129520-unblurring-historythe-best-catchers-in-the-history-of-mlb-offensively

[rician blast]

Bench and Fisk are really close, although Fisk had to have at least 1,000 more ABs.

 

I think many of the guys who saw him play would say Munson would possibly have had a shot at that distinction had his career not been cut short. I'd like to get Rician and Crunch's take on that. I know I hated the guy while he was playing, he was a wicked hard-nosed, snotty player. But at the same time I respected the guy's ability. He put up impressive numbers, was wicked clutch, and was just a little shy of Fisk and Bench in the power department.

 

 

Munson only hit 20 Hrs once in his career, and in 1978 only had 6...and through July of 1979 he only had 3. I think the lack of power would have kept him from ever being considered in that upper echelon of catchers.

 

That said , he was a good player. From 75 to 78 he averaged about 185 hits per season with about a .310 average. Very hard nosed, competitive guy, who I hated back in the day, but respected. He was slow as hell, though, I guess you could say he couldn't fly.

[Keeper]

When did official records determine that nearly 600 of his career home runs do not count because they were against inferior competition? This is news to me....

 

I wasn't trying to be inflammatory or racist. Gibson just never occurred to me. Take it easy.

[AndrewKrylon]

As someone who's lived in Los Angeles for 15 years, I can confirm that Piazza is a cheater. You don't go from hitting 40 homeruns a year to struggling to get 10 without having used.

 

*See: Adrian Beltre

[Cocos Disciples]

What if you're a catcher in your 30s? Now, I think Piazza's a cheater, but I don't find his decline so ridiculous. He went from 40 HR, to 38, 36, 33, then 11 in an injured season, then 20, 19, 22 in shorter seasons.

[AndrewKrylon]

What if you're a catcher in your 30s? Now' date=' I think Piazza's a cheater, but I don't find his decline so ridiculous. He went from 40 HR, to 38, 36, 33, then 11 in an injured season, then 20, 19, 22 in shorter seasons.[/quote']

 

Wow, surprising numbers :dunno:. Maybe I was listening to the hecklers at Chavez-Ravine a bit too much, probably caused me to exaggerate Piaza's decline, but it sure SEEMED like there was a major drop off in his production.