Life after Jeter

[rician blast]

I honestly and truly believe that Cashman would like to end that reliance and make it a luxury again by building a core from within.

 

Does he know how to do that? Has he ever done that? Wasn't it Gene Michael that set things in motion in the 90's, with an assist from Bob Watson who took over in 95 or 96?

[jacksonianmarch]

He was in the org at the time, but he wasnt in the FO. Rician, I dont think most people truly understand how badly George f***ed us in the minors. From 1999 through 2001 (when we had 3 first rounders) until Hughes was selected in 2004, we were one of the, if not the cheapest team in terms of draft and INTL FA payouts. Cashman is trying to fix this. Its coming. It will just take some time. Our Tampa team will be completely loaded with offensive talent this yr. You watch. They're only a couple yrs away

[ORS]

I understand your POV on the yankees push to pay the premium on impact players' date=' but I honestly and truly believe that Cashman would like to end that reliance and make it a luxury again by building a core from within.[/quote']

That's probably the case, but it sure hasn't resulted in any restraint to date. Face it, despite his desire, he still operates with a virtually unlimited budget and an ownership directive that ony championships constitute success. There's nothing to suggest he's going to give either of these kids a shot given their inconsistent and deficient play, not when there will be better, proven alternatives available on the market.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree to a point. Thing is, unless Nunez goes off this yr, I dont see any internal options that would force the FO's hand to move Jeter off SS prior to the culmination of his contract. So Nunez has 2 yrs to show that he has improved upon his poor seasons and that he is more like the player that finished last yr and that had a hot spring.

 

Now, one thing we have seen from Cashman is a willingness to go with the umproven kids. I just think he learned his lesson that completely relying on them with no safety net is bad news (08 anyone). And he is continuing to go with the kids when you look at the CF position. Melky and Gardner with AJax coming along the way. It could have been very easy to find a stop gap, but they backed away from the Cameron deal in favor of giving these kids a shot. I could see us doing the same with the SS position. That being said, if the right guy comes along (Hanley, Reyes) then we absolutely will be in on it. But short of those guys being available, I dont see us settling for a FA quick fix that isnt completely outstanding.

[ORS]

The one year Cashman stuck his neck out and went with unproven kids, they finished in 3rd and he quickly turtled his head back into his shell. You say he learned a lesson from that and will have a safety net in the future? What do you envision the composition of this net to be? Other kids? That's more of the same issue that created the problem. Vets? What vet of any capability is going to sign on to be the fallback plan for some unproven kid? So, he's left with a choice, he either sticks his neck out again, or he signs vets (the status quo) and then the kids are the backup plan.

 

Whatever rumors come out about him hating this job, his actions speak volumes. He keeps coming back. I would too to be the highest paid GM in baseball. I think he'll operate from a perspective of keeping this job that, despite the rumors, he apparently wants.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am thinking the safety net is a veteran on a short term deal who is easily expendable should the kid outplay him. Like Pettitte. If Pettitte goes in the tank this yr and Hughes lights it up in AAA, we would likely see Hughes take over come the end of the yr.

[pinstripezac]

May not be? That's nice of you. Jeter has been an atrocious SS from the moment he arrived in the league. He does have good range going back for flyballs, which may suit him in CF.

 

.

 

 

well it's good to know that teams can win with an atrocious ss

 

but I see jeets going to LF next yr

 

and stays around to get 3000

 

he needs 465 more which gives him pretty good leverage

 

when his deal runs out after next season

 

I like the nunez kid, but if he doesn't have a big yr

 

they most likely go outside the org

[pinstripezac]

I agree to a point. Thing is, unless Nunez goes off this yr, I dont see any internal options that would force the FO's hand to move Jeter off SS prior to the culmination of his contract. So Nunez has 2 yrs to show that he has improved upon his poor seasons and that he is more like the player that finished last yr and that had a hot spring.

 

Now, one thing we have seen from Cashman is a willingness to go with the umproven kids. I just think he learned his lesson that completely relying on them with no safety net is bad news (08 anyone). And he is continuing to go with the kids when you look at the CF position. Melky and Gardner with AJax coming along the way. It could have been very easy to find a stop gap, but they backed away from the Cameron deal in favor of giving these kids a shot. I could see us doing the same with the SS position. That being said, if the right guy comes along (Hanley, Reyes) then we absolutely will be in on it. But short of those guys being available, I dont see us settling for a FA quick fix that isnt completely outstanding.

 

 

 

solid post

 

I think han ram will be available in 2 yrs if not sooner

 

the fact that the sox are interested shouldn't hurt our chances ;-)

[pinstripezac]

The one year Cashman stuck his neck out and went with unproven kids' date=' they finished in 3rd and he quickly turtled his head back into his shell. .[/quote']

 

 

 

I'm not sure if that's fair

 

I'm thinking he just learned those paticular unproven kids weren't ready

 

we'll see it they go with gardner or not

[ORS]

Nonsense, they'll bide time with their internal options because there wasn't much in the CF market.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nonsense' date=' they'll bide time with their internal options because there wasn't much in the CF market.[/quote']

 

there were plenty of stopgap options on the market and we nearly acquired one from the Brewers. All of the options were old, mostly offensive in nature and expensive. Fits a previous MO. We passed on all of them.

[Gom]

Jacko...I have a question for you. I'm not saying this to paint you in a corner...but do you have a position on the Yankees moves? No matter what they do, you love it. They go with kids, you love it. They go with veterans, you love it. They draft a guy, you love him. They trade for a guy, you love the deal.

 

I've seen you flip/flop so much, I don't know where you stand on players, or franchise model, or pretty much anything. I'd love to hear where you stand, without any sort of debate, on how you feel on the Yankees, their players, and their direction, their business model, etc.

 

Really, I'd like to know.

[ORS]

there were plenty of stopgap options on the market and we nearly acquired one from the Brewers. All of the options were old' date=' mostly offensive in nature and expensive. Fits a previous MO. We passed on all of them.[/quote']

What previous MO brought in those kind of stopgaps at any position? The older, mostly offensive, and expensive players you always gripe about were in the top 10% for their positions when brought in. Nobody of that caliber was available in the FA market. Had one been, Brett Gardner would be starting the year in Scranton. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

 

The only difference is that they've stopped trading away their prospects that could act as stopgaps in exchange for overrated pitchers. This doesn't mean they are "going with the kids". They just aren't throwing them away on the Jeff Weaver's of the world.

[YAZMAN]

I dont think most people truly understand how badly George f***ed us in the minors.

 

 

I think they do now, you bring this point up at every and any possible opportunity.

 

Way to blame the drooling old man in the hockey helmet.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jacko...I have a question for you. I'm not saying this to paint you in a corner...but do you have a position on the Yankees moves? No matter what they do, you love it. They go with kids, you love it. They go with veterans, you love it. They draft a guy, you love him. They trade for a guy, you love the deal.

 

I've seen you flip/flop so much, I don't know where you stand on players, or franchise model, or pretty much anything. I'd love to hear where you stand, without any sort of debate, on how you feel on the Yankees, their players, and their direction, their business model, etc.

 

Really, I'd like to know.

 

I like the direction of the team over the past 18 months or so. Thats all. I think the idea of building the farm, integrating rookies and then filling critical gaps with FAs who are in their prime is the way to go. The years of dealing away top prospects for 5th starters are over. And their drafts have actually been rather good. Even the 2008 draft without Cole has a ton of very young talent taken in the lower rounds. Enough to say that the change in culture is occuring. That's all. I understand that a culture change does not come without its lumps and 08 was our yr to take our lumps. But I think we have put together a team that will be led by solid pitching, solid hitting, and a good pen. I have to think we're the favorites and at a lesser cost while having more talent in the minors. I cannot complain

[diony]

Fair enough.

[rician blast]

By the way, is it just me or does Jeter look a lot skinnier this year...f***, one clip I saw made him look like he was 170 lbs...does this kid have the virus or something?

[jacksonianmarch]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID= 4027715&name=Neyer_Rob

 

Jeter's decreased range at shortstop, especially to his left, has been an increasingly hot topic around baseball -- which the Yankee high command has pointedly chosen to ignore, because there didn't appear to be any bona fide prospects in the system. That, however, all changed this spring with the emergence of 23-year-old Ramiro Pena, whose dazzling glovework has made him the frontrunner to win the utility infielder's job until Alex Rodriguez comes back in May.

 

Fact is, Pena has always demonstrated world class defense since being signed by the Yankees out of Mexico in 2005, but his improvement with the bat is what's elevated him to legitimate major league prospect status.

 

"When I first saw him three years ago, you could knock the bat out of his hands," said one veteran scout whose primary assignment is in the minor leagues. "But he was a magician with the glove and that made him someone to keep an eye on. Now that he's gained a little weight, put on a little muscle, he's no longer an 'out.' He can handle the bat. I always felt his glove would get him to the big leagues, but now I can see him as an everyday shortstop."

 

Pena hit .266 at Double-A Trenton last year, but scouts who saw him say he appeared to be hampered from offseason shoulder surgery. That has not been the case this spring.

 

"Best looking young shortstop I've seen in a couple of years," said one National League scout.

 

So assuming Pena is the real deal, it would seem that with another year of Triple-A apprenticeship, presumably mixed with stints at the big league level, he'll be ready for regular duty with the Yankees. Jeter will be 35 next season, the last year of his contract, and, his pride aside, he can't expect to extend his career as a shortstop. He doesn't hit for enough power to be a DH and, so, a move to center field seems inevitable. As Hall of Famer Robin Yount can attest, there's no shame in moving from shortstop to center field, and as the Tampa Bay Rays will attest after acquiring Jason Bartlett from the Minnesota Twins last year, there's no substitute for defense at shortstop.

 

Interesting, Neyer goes on to point out that Pena wasnt considered one of our top 40 prospects by BA this yr. I agree. Pena's history suggests he's a light hitting all glove SS. Unless he got his hands on some HGH. Or is really 27. Who knows. If teams start liking him, though, it would be nice to get something for him, or even better, if he puts enough pressure on Jeter to move him to the OF.