Bay breaks off negotiations with sox

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/03/bay_extension_t.html

 

He would look nice in pinstripes after Hideki leaves I must say

[TheKilo]

Title of thread is intellectually dishonest. What a shocker.

 

"There's desire to get something done on both sides," Epstein said. "There's just a mutual recognition right now that it's going to be next to impossible to get something done. It really boils down to the nature of the market right now, more than anything else."

[jacksonianmarch]

“I don’t think anybody in my situation wants to play for six years and then you earn the right to be a free agent and on some levels sell yourself short, and that doesn’t mean there doesn’t have to be some concessions... But you put yourself in this position and I think it’s in my best interest to kind of explore. Not to say we’re ever going to go that far, but I definitely want to make sure it’s the right fit.”

[diony]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/03/bay_extension_t.html

 

He would look nice in pinstripes after Hideki leaves I must say

 

You want them to sign a 31 year old corner OF that plays poor defense? Haven't you learned from Damon and Matsui?

 

They can have Bay.

[TheKilo]

 

Bay didn't break the negotiations off dicksmack, it was a mutual decision.

 

edit - to jacko

[Ionicknight]

See, this is why we need Wily Mo back.

[jacksonianmarch]

You want them to sign a 31 year old corner OF that plays poor defense? Haven't you learned from Damon and Matsui?

 

They can have Bay.

 

he is actually a pretty good corner OFer.

[diony]

he is actually a pretty good corner OFer.

 

Based on what?

[example1]

Theo is absolutely right about the market. Why should the Red Sox pay a lot more than he is worth in the current market? Why should he settle for current market prices when the FA process can raise his value by millions of dollars?

 

We've seen that the Yankees will continue to pay old-market prices for the pieces they want, and I see no reason to think they wouldn't pay both Bay and Holliday 16-20m/year to roam the corners and bat toward the bottom of the order.

 

I bet the Sox are going to be happy to pick up the pieces from the rest of the league in other ways, and I that they will stay competitive without having to get too deeply into the FA process.

[diony]

Theo is absolutely right about the market. Why should the Red Sox pay a lot more than he is worth in the current market? Why should he settle for current market prices when the FA process can raise his value by millions of dollars?

 

We've seen that the Yankees will continue to pay old-market prices for the pieces they want, and I see no reason to think they wouldn't pay both Bay and Holliday 16-20m/year to roam the corners and bat toward the bottom of the order.

 

I bet the Sox are going to be happy to pick up the pieces from the rest of the league in other ways, and I that they will stay competitive without having to get too deeply into the FA process.

 

They won't have $80 million coming off the books next year, plus a new stadium.

[jacksonianmarch]

We'll have Pettitte's 12 mil, Matsui's 13 mil, Damon's 13 mil and Nady's 6 mil coming off the books with really only 2 spots to fill. I absolutely see us in on the Holliday sweeps, but if he struggles outside of coors, then we might pass. Bay is someone I guarantee will be on our radar, but possibly on the periphery depending on how our CF situation shakes out and how AJax does. Here's the deal, if Gardner plays like he can and locks down the CF slot, then Jackson would take RF and we'd need a power bat for LF/DH with Swisher being the other guy. We may only go for one of those guys. But if Gardner is subpar and Jackson has a poor AAA season, then we might just go balls out for both of those guys.

[BSN07]

I like Bay a lot. But I don't blame the team for not to sign him for 15m+ a year considering what the market for COF has been recently.

 

And before one of the ass clowns points it out, yes I do know JD Drew makes 14M a season, and Bay is a better player overall. But the market is different now, and the only team still playing by the old market values for it's FA signings resides in the Bronx.

 

The economy gave the owner's the ultimate excuse to cut players salaries. I don't see them giving that back very soon.

 

 

I fully expect Hank to keep spending to compensate for his teams futility. He's like the Guy with a 3 inch cock, and the Yankees are his million $ Ferrari. Or the 5 foot tall guy who insists on driving a full size lifted pick up truck, that he needs a boost to get in and a phone book to see over the steering wheel.

[jacksonianmarch]

So you'll blame the yankees if Bay leaves? Seriously, you are just falling into the same trap that the rest of the nation is falling into. Claiming poverty. Its hilarious. Here's the deal. Bay came to Boston with a ton of controversy attached to him. He manned up, had a good end to the yr and then was solid in the playoffs. He's good for Boston. Are you really going to let a power hitting COF go over a couple mil per yr when the sox are completely swimming in cash? Even with the economy being in the shitter, the sox will sell out every game and will still be top 3 in merchandise sales. The global market has changed. But the sox are still making money hand over fist and will find an excuse to cut costs. That being said, getting Bay would fit the MO of the yankee franchise. No more 35+ overpaid superstars. We'd get another prime player in their prime. And you'll regret it.

[ORS]

Oh, so you'll sell Bay on a 3 year deal?

 

No, what will really happen is that because he's at the tail end of his prime, he'll sell himself for more years, say 5 or 6, and at the tail end of that, you end up with a 35+ y/o overpaid superstar, just like Damon, Matsui, etc. These guys were signed when they were in their young 30's.

 

EDIT: This is why I don't care if he walks. They've already got Drew as the aging COF, and he's here for 3 more years. No need for two of them. Bring on Reddick.

[BSN07]

So you'll blame the yankees if Bay leaves? Seriously' date=' you are just falling into the same trap that the rest of the nation is falling into. Claiming poverty. Its hilarious. Here's the deal. Bay came to Boston with a ton of controversy attached to him. He manned up, had a good end to the yr and then was solid in the playoffs. He's good for Boston. Are you really going to let a power hitting COF go over a couple mil per yr when the sox are completely swimming in cash? Even with the economy being in the shitter, the sox will sell out every game and will still be top 3 in merchandise sales. The global market has changed. But the sox are still making money hand over fist and will find an excuse to cut costs. That being said, getting Bay would fit the MO of the yankee franchise. [b']No more 35+ overpaid superstars. We'd get another prime player in their prime. And you'll regret it[/b].

 

What? No. I'm not claiming poverty or anything like that. I said I don't blame the team for not giving him 15M or whatever. And I said the Yankees and LA teams might be the only ones that will. If he goes to the Yanks because he got a big $ deal, so be it. I'm not against people making as much as they can even if it means they play for the Yanks.

 

Wow you totally took my post the wrong way

 

 

They may not be 35 when they sign, but they will be 35 at some point in their deals, and you will regret it. Typical Yankees fan, you look 1 or 2 years into a deal, while disregarding the back end of the deal when they will be old and making even more money. And for most guys not on something 31-33 is about their physical peak.

[kevchen19]

That cannot be true the sox will NEVER let him go after they traded Manny for him!!!

[BSN07]

That cannot be true the sox will NEVER let him go after they traded Manny for him!!!

 

Your an Idiot.

 

 

If you had been paying attention you should know that this Ownership group and FO have shown they will let a popular player go if they feel he's too expensive.

 

 

But you miss these type of things when jumping on the Wagon....:thumbdown

[jacksonianmarch]

Oh, so you'll sell Bay on a 3 year deal?

 

No, what will really happen is that because he's at the tail end of his prime, he'll sell himself for more years, say 5 or 6, and at the tail end of that, you end up with a 35+ y/o overpaid superstar, just like Damon, Matsui, etc. These guys were signed when they were in their young 30's.

 

EDIT: This is why I don't care if he walks. They've already got Drew as the aging COF, and he's here for 3 more years. No need for two of them. Bring on Reddick.

 

I dont think you get what I mean. I meant no more long term deals for players who are already 35. Bay turns 31 in September, so essentially he'll play this entire yr as a 30 yr old. So you say he signs a deal at 31 for 5 yrs and you are talking about paying a player through his yr 36 season. I am fine with that. No more signing 35 yr olds through their yr 39 season.

[jacksonianmarch]

Your an Idiot.

 

 

If you had been paying attention you should know that this Ownership group and FO have shown they will let a popular player go if they feel he's too expensive.

 

 

But you miss these type of things when jumping on the Wagon....:thumbdown

 

they let guys walk when the have an adequate contingency plan. The question is, who is their contingency plan. Lets put it this way. The sox have a lot of offensive ??s as do most teams. One guy who I do not consider to be a ?? is Jason Bay. I fully expect him to hit .280 30HRs 100+RBI and a near .900OPS. Which player on the open market after 2009 will be able to pick up for Bay? Or, which guy in the sox system can compensate for Bay's loss? Lars, maybe. Reddick? Eventually maybe, but not right off the bat IMO

[ORS]

No, I get what you meant, but I think you are fooling yourself in that being the problem, becuase there are few examples of position players who fit that bill. Meanwhile you are counting down the clock on when the players I mentioned come off your roster to make room for the next guy who will be coming it at the same age they did. You don't see this, because you are fine with it, but it's not the change you are trying to sell it as.

[jacksonianmarch]

But look at the acquisitions from yrs past. This is what I am talking about. Wells at 41, Clemens at 45, Sheffield at 36, Posada at 36, Rivera at 37. These are all massively risky deals because you are expecting players to continue to perform at their early 30s level while playing in their late 30s/40s. I dont want to see those anymore. I'd much rather see my team either develop a player for the position or signs prime level guys while they are still in their prime. Bay will still be in his prime come the end of this yr and will likely still give prime level performance for 2-4 more yrs after that. The concern comes around when you try and limit the amount of dead space a contract has.

 

Also, the other guys who fit in this boat (Matsui and Damon) have seen no significant dropoff in offensive production. What we have seen is a loss of durability. Its a risk, that much is obvious, but it is a risk I think we should be willing to take in the short term. Its at least better than banking on the elderly ballplayers. It is a step in the right direction. The ultimate step will be when we can get back to our roots (and back to the roots the sox completely copied successfully) and fill in with FAs around a home grown core. It will come as long as we leave Cash in place. But it takes a long time

[BSN07]

they let guys walk when the have an adequate contingency plan. The question is' date=' who is their contingency plan. Lets put it this way. The sox have a lot of offensive ??s as do most teams. One guy who I do not consider to be a ?? is Jason Bay. I fully expect him to hit .280 30HRs 100+RBI and a near .900OPS. Which player on the open market after 2009 will be able to pick up for Bay? Or, which guy in the sox system can compensate for Bay's loss? Lars, maybe. Reddick? Eventually maybe, but not right off the bat IMO[/quote']

 

Or is it possible some player might become available through a trade? FA is not the only way to bring in players that fill a need.

 

 

There is no way to know their contingency plan. But I pretty sure there privy to a lot more information the you or I am. Maybe they know something we don't. Maybe they plan for more then 1 year at a time:dunno:

[jacksonianmarch]

so you'd laet a guy walk who is gonna do the job and then deal away valuable commodities for a player who might be able to reproduce what he brings? All over a few mil per yr? It isnt like the sox will be offering 5 mil a yr and the yankees will throw 20 mil a yr at him. The difference is gonna be on the order of 1-2mil per yr most likely

[TheKilo]

I suppose the question is what's the cap on what you offer Bay, because like Teixeira there is no guarantee the Yankees won't up their offer in the final minute.

[Gom]

Guys...one thing I think you're missing [not you BSN07] is that it will be a PHENOMENAL buyer's market come the deadline, if the economy is still in shambles.

[jacksonianmarch]

I suppose the question is what's the cap on what you offer Bay' date=' because like Teixeira there is no guarantee the Yankees won't up their offer in the final minute.[/quote']

 

18 mil per yr would be my cap. I would think 15 mil per yr would be more palatable.

[rician blast]

Bay came to Boston with a ton of controversy attached to him. He manned up' date=' had a good end to the yr and then was solid in the playoffs. He's good for Boston. Are you really going to let a power hitting COF go over a couple mil per yr when the sox are completely swimming in cash?[/quote']

 

He came to Boston where open arms and hearts were waiting for him. Controversy?********, after Manny pulled his s*** the fans were dieing to cheer for Bay.

 

Yes the Sox FO will let him walk of they think his ask is to high.

 

And as far as swimming with cash, please let me know where you found their financial statements or how you otherwise determined that the Sox are swimming with cash.

 

Even with the economy being in the shitter, the sox will sell out every game and will still be top 3 in merchandise sales. The global market has changed. But the sox are still making money hand over fist and will find an excuse to cut costs.

 

So they should just concede to his asking price? Regardless of the market? Regardless of the economy. Regardless of what their business plan might indicate is the prescribed path?

Why, because that is what the Yankees would do?

 

That being said, getting Bay would fit the MO of the yankee franchise. No more 35+ overpaid superstars. We'd get another prime player in their prime. And you'll regret it.

 

I think it's very early to say that the Yanks won't sign ANY more 35+ guys...if the best available player at a particular position is 35+ and he fits a Yankees need, you think they'll say "nah...he's 35"? Doubt it. They'll buy the best players available of it helps them win and sell tickets.

[Dojji]

They buy Bay at 32 they've just bought a player who will be 35+ for more than half the life of his deal.

 

Unless you REALLY think Bay's gonna get short years? Yeah that'll happen.

[BSN07]

they let guys walk when the have an adequate contingency plan. The question is' date=' who is their contingency plan. Lets put it this way. The sox have a lot of offensive ??s as do most teams. One guy who I do not consider to be a ?? is Jason Bay. I fully expect him to hit .280 30HRs 100+RBI and a near .900OPS. Which player on the open market after 2009 will be able to pick up for Bay? Or, which guy in the sox system can compensate for Bay's loss? Lars, maybe. Reddick? Eventually maybe, but not right off the bat IMO[/quote']

 

Not true. After 2004 they let Pedro and Lowe go when there price tags got to high. And they didn't have a contingency plan lined up.

 

 

so you'd laet a guy walk who is gonna do the job and then deal away valuable commodities for a player who might be able to reproduce what he brings? All over a few mil per yr? It isnt like the sox will be offering 5 mil a yr and the yankees will throw 20 mil a yr at him. The difference is gonna be on the order of 1-2mil per yr most likely

 

If he wants way more then what the market for COF is getting then yes let him walk. They can look for a trade. Or bring in a 1 year stop gap like Burrell or Abreau. They might not produce like Bay, but they will come at about half the price.

 

 

 

Like Gom pointed out, a lot will have to do with the economy. If say Detroit can't draw any fans(good possibility, Detroit is one of the hardest hit areas) and their finances go in the toilet, maybe a player like Miggy with his 140M deal might become available(just an example). Or what if the Brewers fall on hard times, players like Fielder, Hardy, or Braun could become available to clear payroll. Theres really no telling until we get a little further down the line. After the first couple months of the season, the picture on team finances should become more clear.

[Gom]

Like Gom pointed out' date=' a lot will have to do with the economy. If say Detroit can't draw any fans(good possibility, Detroit is one of the hardest hit areas) and their finances go in the toilet, maybe a player like Miggy with his 140M deal might become available(just an example). Or what if the Brewers fall on hard times, players like Fielder, Hardy, or Braun could become available to clear payroll. Theres really no telling until we get a little further down the line. After the first couple months of the season, the picture on team finances should become more clear.[/quote']

 

Smartest quote by a Red Sox fan ever posted here.