Pedroia strained Oblique

[BSN07]

It's about the quality and globalization of the game of "Baseball".

 

 

From a business standpoint,

 

Global Marketing(WBC)=more people playing= more quality players= better on field product= $

 

So yes in the end, the game is better, and MLB will undoubtedly benefit financially at some point.

 

Yes of course part of it's about money. But it's not the be all end all.

 

MLB is trying to expand there audience. Just like the Sox giving up 50M to talk to Dice-K, they got the player they wanted, but they also got their foot in the door in Japan. And now players are taking 1/2 the $ to come to the Sox(Tazawa took 3M from the Sox, while declining 7M from Texas) because the Sox expanded their product into a fairly untapped region.

 

 

You see now, they have on field benefits, while get off the field financial benefits as well.

 

 

 

Yes I agree' date=' part of the motivation is $[/b'].There's no reason it wouldn't be. But it's not the only reason.

 

Part of the motivation is to expand the game itself. And by doing this the talent pool will increase. Which will lead to a better on field product. And who is not for that? And of course when your product is great and you have widened your audience, the $ will increase as well. That's just smart business.

 

Well then this is all just about personal agenda's. You don't like this because it could hinder your favorite teams on field performance.

 

If you are as savvy in business as you say, then you must understand the larger your clientele(audience), the more opportunity for $. The better your product is, the more opportunity for $.

 

Yes we have established the financial benefits.

 

The better question is why do you keep treating it like the proverbial pink elephant? It's right there in front of you' date=' but you continue to ignore it.[/quote']

 

Am I speaking Japanese? Fairly sure I have acknowledged the financial aspects of this.

[ORS]

Agreed, you have, but I don't think you appreciate the ginormity of the financials.

 

Tell you what, identify a non-financial motivation, and I swear to God, if you f***ing say "expanding the game, dirka, dirka!", as that has been established as a financial motivation, I'll snap, and I'll leave you alone on the issue. The thing is, I don't think you can.

[Dojji]

National pride? Not for Americans perhaps but certainly for everyone else -- especially nations like the Dominican and Venezuela who can use the opportunuty to remind America that MLB isn't strictly and American institution.

 

Or are you making the mistake of viewing the WBC from an entirely American perspective?

[ORS]

So, the underlying motivation for the creation of the WBC was national pride? Tell me that you didn't take the time to figure out what we were talking about, please, you'll look better.

[BSN07]

Agreed, you have, but I don't think you appreciate the ginormity of the financials.

 

Tell you what, identify a non-financial motivation, and I swear to God, if you f***ing say "expanding the game, dirka, dirka!", as that has been established as a financial motivation, I'll snap, and I'll leave you alone on the issue. The thing is, I don't think you can.

 

Well this is more of a personal deal and I guess it falls under the promotion of the game, but maybe it will help show my perspective.

 

Since the first Netherlands game of the WBC, I've had 5 new additions to the team I coach. And out of the 5, 4 of the parents told me their children wanted to play baseball after watching the WBC on TV.

 

I know this probably doesn't hold much water, seems how I can't prove it on a message board, I guess I'll just have to hope you guys have had enough experience with me on here to know I wouldn't go through the trouble of making this crap up:D

 

It's not much, but I'm all for anything that get's kids out of the house and on to a ball field.

 

Maybe that's what it is, you guys see the financial benefits of the WBC going on there. Where as I see the on field results here.

[BSN07]

National pride? Not for Americans perhaps but certainly for everyone else -- especially nations like the Dominican and Venezuela who can use the opportunuty to remind America that MLB isn't strictly and American institution.

 

Or are you making the mistake of viewing the WBC from an entirely American perspective?

 

Good point Dojji. I stated earlier about the Country vs Country rivalries that go on here. But I guess it's something you have witness first hand to understand how serious they are.

 

And yes most are probably looking at it from an "American" only perspective.

[ORS]

I feel like we should hold hands a sing Kumbaya when I read that post.

 

No, seriously, the benefit you are talking about is right in line with the financial goal. Those families didn't watch baseball before the WBC probably, so now they have their kids playing. Wash, rinse, repeat every 4 years, then move 10, 20, 30 years into the future. There are now Dutch players in MLB, meaning there are more Dutch fans tuning in, which means more $. This is the goal. Don't be fooled by being in love with the results if they are the means to the ends that MLB is seeking. This isn't to say the goal is a bad one, but it is what it is, let's not call it something different.

 

Jacko brought up China to which a700 brought up Sadaharu Oh. His father was Chinese, but his mother was Japanese, and he was born and raised in Japan. I don't know how much they would identify with him, particulary when Oh played in the decades following WWII and how closed China was to the outside world relative to how it is there now. Plus, the Chinese don't have a lot of fondness for Japan. A better and more contemporary example would be Yao Ming.

[BSN07]

I feel like we should hold hands a sing Kumbaya when I read that post.

 

No, seriously, the benefit you are talking about is right in line with the financial goal. Those families didn't watch baseball before the WBC probably, so now they have their kids playing. Wash, rinse, repeat every 4 years, then move 10, 20, 30 years into the future. There are now Dutch players in MLB, meaning there are more Dutch fans tuning in, which means more $. This is the goal. Don't be fooled by being in love with the results if they are the means to the ends that MLB is seeking. This isn't to say the goal is a bad one, but it is what it is, let's not call it something different.

 

Jacko brought up China to which a700 brought up Sadaharu Oh. His father was Chinese, but his mother was Japanese, and he was born and raised in Japan. I don't know how much they would identify with him, particulary when Oh played in the decades following WWII and how closed China was to the outside world relative to how it is there now. Plus, the Chinese don't have a lot of fondness for Japan. A better and more contemporary example would be Yao Ming.

 

Sorry if it was mushy or anything, I wasn't trying to relay my message that way:lol:

 

I agree with 100% with how you explain the financial goal of MLB.

 

I suppose my real beef is when people always jump right to the end of things, like bringing up the financial benefits. When they do this they tend to miss out on a lot of the positive aspects this brings to the table also. In truth I know and understand the financial aspects of this. It's huge. But it should not be the soul focus. I think I was just trying to bring some other aspects off the back burner is all.

[Dojji]

What exactly is your point ORS? That it's all about the money? Sure, if youwant to play with definitions long enough to make it that way.. Every facet of a sport people pay to watch is going to have a financial underpinning, but the fact that a move might bring economic benefits does not mean the economic benefits are always the primary facet explaining why a thing is done.

 

Example: When we first posted for Daisuke there was an undercurrent that the reason we signed him was because of all the Japanese exposure, which brings greater revenue to our poor, cash-starved team. . Eventually people had to step in and point out the fact that the real reason they outbid themselves for him was that he was a 26 year old pitcher with a lot of talent.

 

Doesn't make the economic argument invalid per se, just means it wasn't the first reason to go after a guy. Especially because the economic argument goes away if Daisuke turns out to be the next Hideki Irabu.

 

Similar here. Sure there's money in it, but there's money in it because of these other factors as well as because of the chance to see players from nations that aren't well represented in MLB show what they can do. Yeah you can focus on the money, but the money is only there when these factors are strong enough, otherwise it's just a big financial dud, especially considering how expensive a tournament like this can be to run.

[a700hitter]

If you are as savvy in business as you say' date=' then you must understand the larger your clientele(audience), the more opportunity for $. The better your product is, the more opportunity for $.[/quote']So, it's all about the $... right?

[ORS]

What exactly is your point ORS? That it's all about the money? Sure, if youwant to play with definitions long enough to make it that way.. Every facet of a sport people pay to watch is going to have a financial underpinning, but the fact that a move might bring economic benefits does not mean the economic benefits are always the primary facet explaining why a thing is done.

 

Example: When we first posted for Daisuke there was an undercurrent that the reason we signed him was because of all the Japanese exposure, which brings greater revenue to our poor, cash-starved team. . Eventually people had to step in and point out the fact that the real reason they outbid themselves for him was that he was a 26 year old pitcher with a lot of talent.

 

Doesn't make the economic argument invalid per se, just means it wasn't the first reason to go after a guy. Especially because the economic argument goes away if Daisuke turns out to be the next Hideki Irabu.

 

Similar here. Sure there's money in it, but there's money in it because of these other factors as well as because of the chance to see players from nations that aren't well represented in MLB show what they can do. Yeah you can focus on the money, but the money is only there when these factors are strong enough, otherwise it's just a big financial dud, especially considering how expensive a tournament like this can be to run.

If the primary goal isn't expansion of the audience, then what is it? If you can't answer that, then if the primary goal of expanding the audience isn't an expanded market (ie financial gain), then what is the goal of audience expansion?

[BSN07]

So' date=' it's all about the $... right?[/quote']

 

Yes if you want to break it down to nuts and bolts, it has to do with $. But there are more benefits with what they are trying to do then just $. That is what I was trying to get across.

[Dojji]

If the primary goal isn't expansion of the audience' date=' then what is it?[/quote']

 

Is there one, goal here? I think there's a fundamental flaw in your whole notion of things here -- namely, that there's only one motivation for why MLB is promiting the Classic.

 

Sure it expands the audience. That's nice. Most of the world already knows that baseball exists though and there's other ways to expand the audience that are probably cheaper than running a tourament. Don't overlook the idea that national pride, and national teams, can divert athletes into baseball and expand the talent pool. Don't overlook a chance to showcase talent and giving players a chance to catch the eye of teams. Don't forget the quest for international legitimacy. Don't forget the chance to get baseball into the Olympics again for that matter. These are reasons for the tourmant as well as the profit motive. Just because they run together doesn't mean that it's a pure money grab.

[ORS]

Primary does not mean one, in fact it implies multiple as it identifies the most important. You don't have most with one, you have only. Well done English major. In trying to nuance and parse again, you just stuck your foot further in your mouth when a simple, "you are right", would have sufficed. But, that would have been too painful, wouldn't it?

[Dojji]

Primary does not mean one' date=' in fact it implies multiple as it identifies the most important. You don't have most with one, you have only. Well done English major. In trying to nuance and parse again, you just stuck your foot further in your mouth when a simple, "you are right", would have sufficed. But, that would have been too painful, wouldn't it?[/quote']

 

Hard to say, lemme know when you make an actual point and we can discuss it. Right now all you're doing is listing benefits and calling them reasons and pointing out how each one increases MLB's bottom line. I'm sure Karl Marx would be impressed but personally I suspect you're putting the cart before the horse.

 

You've established that this was a potentially good business decision, at least. I think most of us already knew that. I'm sure a lot of people went along with the idea because it was beneficial financially but if all there was here was a cost-benefit analysis I doubt something like the WBC would have come into being.

 

The fact that you can "parse and nuance" every other benefit or reason to create a World Baseball Classic into something financial does not mean that those reasons are secondary to the financial one. It just means that they overlap, which is true for anyone's reasons for doing anything.

 

Before I agreed with you I'd want to know what happens if the WBC runs at a deficit, which for a new tournament that has to rent access to a lot of venues and transport teams long distances is extremely possible.

[ORS]

The point has been made in crystal clear fashion, and I've invited you to suggest an alternative primary motivation. You've only created a strawman and avoided the actual discussion. You are free to join at any time.

[soxfan17881]

I suppose that I'm a going to come off as bigoted or at least small minded, but I could care less if professional level baseball catches on in Italy, South Africa, or any of these other countries. There will never be a "world league" or anything of the sort. It seems like all this is meant to do is increase the dollar potential of the MLB brand, which is all about money.

 

If that is the case, I don't want to see my favorite team's guys risking any injury for a three week tournament that is one of Bud Selig's pet projects.

 

I also agree with those that said that Peds could have gotten this injury with or without the WBC. It would have been less likely though, since he would have been going slower in the transition from hot stove to opening day ready.

 

It's just my opinion. I could certainly be wrong.

[soxfan17881]

All the fascinating banter aside, I think the story today on the Globe site is good news.

 

The gist of the article is that the injury is not to the oblique, but to an abdominal muscle, which is evidently a much smaller deal.

 

Also, they have a great Dustin Pedroia quote:

 

"When you have a physique like this," Pedroia said, "when you're shredded and everything, something might happen."

STORY LINK

[Dojji]

The point has been made in crystal clear fashion' date=' and I've invited you to suggest an alternative primary motivation. You've only created a strawman and avoided the actual discussion. You are free to join at any time.[/quote']

 

Well I'm sorry you can't grasp the decision I'm trying to make. I suppose in your world the question of whether I should scratch my nose or not has some economic focus behind it that invalidates the question of whether or not my nose itches.

 

Just to recap this from my perspective

 

Your challenge was to find a primary motive other than financial motives for holding a World Baseball Classic. Reasons were provided you -- by more than just me I might point out. You decided to wrench and twist the discussion of each reason until you could find a way that it was somehow financial. My point is that the fact that these reasons overlap does not mean that those other reasons are invalid or subordinate to the financial one. You at this point decided to act like a 6 year old.

 

What'd I miss?

[ORS]

What'd I miss?

The part where you provide an alternative primary motivation for the WBC?

 

I've yet to see you actually stand behind a motivation and call it the primary. Stop trying to weasel out of this by calling me names and misrepresenting what I've posted. Have some balls and take a stand by some other motivation if you think I'm wrong, or tell me I'm right.

 

Again, I concede there are secondary motivations for doing this thing, but #1 in my book is money. Provide an alternative, or STFU.

[a700hitter]

Baseball is a business. Yes, it also does a lot of charitable and community work without ulterior motive. However, MLB would not subject it's most valuable assets to injury in a tournament unless it was motivated by financial considerations. To do otherwise would be stupid and reckless from a business perspective.

[Dojji]

The part where you provide an alternative primary motivation for the WBC?

 

I've yet to see you actually stand behind a motivation and call it the primary. Stop trying to weasel out of this by calling me names and misrepresenting what I've posted. Have some balls and take a stand by some other motivation if you think I'm wrong, or tell me I'm right.

 

Again, I concede there are secondary motivations for doing this thing, but #1 in my book is money. Provide an alternative, or STFU.

 

For the FOURTH time now, who says there IS a primary reason? The quest for one central reason behind an action that makes sense at a lot of levels strikes me as an effort to oversimplify.

 

Again, before I say that the WBC is primarily a business move I want to see what happens if the tournament runs a consistent deficit. You haven't even addressed the possibility of what happens to your argument if the tournament costs more than it grosses and still happens anyway. With the number of different venues to rent and the transitory nature of the tournament itself -- and the fact that some of our highest-profile baseball names were stuck on a team that wound up going nowhere -- that's a distinct possibility.

[ORS]

Unbelievable, what a cop out.

[Dojji]

Yeah, I didn't think you'd grasp that one. There is no copout here, dude. There is just you sounding like a Marxist scholar and me trying to take a step back and look at the WHOLE picture.

[ORS]

...and me trying to take a step back and look at the WHOLE picture.

Yeah, with a skirt on.

[a700hitter]

You haven't even addressed the possibility of what happens to your argument if the tournament costs more than it grosses and still happens anyway. With the number of different venues to rent and the transitory nature of the tournament itself -- and the fact that some of our highest-profile baseball names were stuck on a team that wound up going nowhere -- that's a distinct possibility.

I think it is quite possible that the tournament is operating at a loss. That doesn't mean the motive for the tournament is not financial. When businesses enter new markets, they frequently operate at a loss for several years. The motivation for entering the market is purely financial; however, it takes an investment and time for a market to become profitable. The same is true for this WBC. The empty stadiums indicate to me that the tournament is probably operating at a loss right now. MLB is hoping to develop future profitable markets. The only rational reason for a business to expose its most valuable assets to injury or loss is financial gain, whether it can be achieved in the short or long term. Without the financial motivation, the WBC would never have come to pass.

[Mr Crunchy]

Id just assume watch my grandparents make out than watch the WBC and im not aware of any friends family or neighbors who are glued to their sets watching it either.

I do remember the kid the sox had from canada single handedly beating us,adam stern? but outside that and dice k's performance i dont know s*** about the tourney.

[BoSox21]

That Venezuela/Puerto Rico game from last night was good. The crowd was insanely into it

[a700hitter]

That Venezuela/Puerto Rico game from last night was good. The crowd was insanely into it

How many empty seats were there for that game?

[CrespoBlows]

The entire OF was empty.