Sox Lester agree on 5 year deal

MANNYHOF24 · March 8, 2009

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/03/sox-sign-lester.html

Goodnews!

riverside sluggers · March 8, 2009

whoah f*** yea!!

example1 · March 8, 2009

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlE8PTyVCUCYAJ4d7x7D5GgRvLYF?slug=jp-lester1extension030809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

story is originally from yahoo!, which gives it more cred in my eyes...

BoSox21 · March 8, 2009

very, very stellar signing. $6 mil a year and the deal buys out two years of free-agency

Jasonbay44 · March 8, 2009

Great signing, glad to see Lester locked up for a while.

Gom · March 8, 2009

Funny...you guys are all HYPOCRITES.

This deal DOUBLED the previous high salary for players with two years service time. The previous record was 4 years, 15 million signed by Carmona last year.

I never say anything about the Yankees financial advantage and how the use it. I know, and acknowledge it.

You guys are a bunch of hypocrites. It's only an advantage when the Yankees use it, or it benefits the Red Sox or their fan's point of view. When the Red Sox do it, it's a great deal.

f***ing pathetic hypocrites, is what you are.

That being said, it's a bit of a risky deal to give a pitcher with health problems that much money, if you ask me.

Dojji · March 8, 2009

Carmona's deal didn't buy out two years of free agency. I guarantee you it's that extra year that drove the price up and gave Gom his conniption.

Besides, what did we spend the money on? Short answer, a guy who proved a lot to us last year as a legitimate lefthanded horse starter. You guys paid how much for the same thing in CC Sabathia?

For the most part those guys don't get the big deal with 2 years of service time because they know they can get a better deal later with less time left on the arbitration clock.

diony · March 8, 2009

I liked when they signed Pedroia and Youk. Not so sure about this one, we'll see.

ORS · March 8, 2009

Not only that, but it's an outright lie creating his favorite thing, a stawman argument to go to battle against. Just about every person here who is either in favor of a salary cap or who says the current system is inequitable acknowledges the benefit our team gets from it. Gom's fighting the good fight....against himself. Well, given his desperate approach to the women that bother to come to this site, I get the sense he's used to handling himself.

msubulldogs21 · March 8, 2009

I liked when they signed Pedroia and Youk. Not so sure about this one' date=' we'll see.[/quote']

Getting Lester for 6M a year doesn't sound like a good deal to you?

mtbykr · March 8, 2009

Good signing. That's a good price for a 3 or 4 in the rotation, and Lester has the ability to be a 1 or 2 if he can stay healthy.

riverside sluggers · March 8, 2009

Funny...you guys are all HYPOCRITES.

This deal DOUBLED the previous high salary for players with two years service time. The previous record was 4 years, 15 million signed by Carmona last year.

I never say anything about the Yankees financial advantage and how the use it. I know, and acknowledge it.

You guys are a bunch of hypocrites. It's only an advantage when the Yankees use it, or it benefits the Red Sox or their fan's point of view. When the Red Sox do it, it's a great deal.

f***ing pathetic hypocrites, is what you are.

That being said, it's a bit of a risky deal to give a pitcher with health problems that much money, if you ask me.

You are a delusional f*** tard. Yea they shouldve lowballed a guy who got over cancer, and then became of one the best lefties in baseball. f***ing pathetic hypocrite, thats what you are. OMG 5 years/$30 million, the FO is now in the shitter for this Kevin Brown type contract

Wtf dude yea sox fans talk about yankees getting the big free agents for half a billion... but somehow in your eyes, the Sox giving $44 million over 6 years to a young ace in the making. I havent heard of any Sox fans bashing the Yankees for extending their own prospects.... which has been far and few in between

And this deal isnt the biggest contract given to a player with 2 years service time. Pedroia got a $40 million deal

example1 · March 8, 2009

Funny...you guys are all HYPOCRITES.

This deal DOUBLED the previous high salary for players with two years service time. The previous record was 4 years, 15 million signed by Carmona last year.

I never say anything about the Yankees financial advantage and how the use it. I know, and acknowledge it.

You guys are a bunch of hypocrites. It's only an advantage when the Yankees use it, or it benefits the Red Sox or their fan's point of view. When the Red Sox do it, it's a great deal.

f***ing pathetic hypocrites, is what you are.

That being said, it's a bit of a risky deal to give a pitcher with health problems that much money, if you ask me.

Service Class

The most lucrative multi-year contracts in baseball, by service class, by AAV

(excluding international free agents and drafted players signing ML contracts):

Less than 1 year of Major League service:

Ryan Braun, $5,625,000 (2008-15)

Evan Longoria, $2,916,667 (2008-13)

CC Sabathia, $2,375,000 (2002-05)

Roy Halladay, $1,233,333 (2000-02)

Brandon Webb, $1,100,000 (2004-06)

1 plus years of Major League service:

Chris Young, $5,600,000 (2008-12)

Troy Tulowitzki, $5,166,667 (2008-13)

Nomar Garciaparra, $4,650,000 (1998-2002)

Brian McCann, $4,466,667 (2007-12)

Grady Sizemore, $3,908,333 (2006-11)

Fausto Carmona, $3,750,000 (2008-11)

2 plus years of Major League service:

Hanley Ramirez, $11,666,667 (2009-14)

David Wright, $9,166,667 (2007-12)

Pat Burrell, $8,333,333 (2003-08)

Robinson Cano, $7,500,000 (2008-11)

Cole Hamels, $6,833,333 (2009-11)

Dustin Pedroia, $6,750,000 (2009-14)

Vladimir Guerrero, $5,600,000 (1999-2003)

Nick Swisher, $5,350,000 (2007-11)

Brandon Webb, $4,875,000 (2006-09)

Is this what you're talking about? Are you talking about overall value of the contract, or yearly value?

Jon Lester has 2.072 years of service time and signed a 5 year, $30m deal. Chris Young (ARI) has 2.045 years of service time and signed a 5 year $28m deal. Is that double?

diony · March 8, 2009

Getting Lester for 6M a year doesn't sound like a good deal to you?

We don't have the details of the deal yet. But yeah, I think is a year too long.

example1 · March 8, 2009

We don't have the details of the deal yet. But yeah' date=' I think is a year too long.[/quote']

What problem is there with having a pitcher signed to a fair value for his age 25, 26, 27, 28 and 29 seasons for less than the cost of ONE YEAR of Alex Rodriguez and his hip surgery? My bet is that his WARP total over those 5 years is higher than A-Rod's WARP total for this year.

a700hitter · March 8, 2009

I liked when they signed Pedroia and Youk. Not so sure about this one' date=' we'll see.[/quote']IMO, by the end of this season, Lester will be more valuable than Youk or Pedroia.

BoSox21 · March 8, 2009

how in God's name does a 5-year, $30 million deal compare with the insane contracts the Yankees give out?

BSN07 · March 8, 2009

Funny...you guys are all HYPOCRITES.

This deal DOUBLED the previous high salary for players with two years service time. The previous record was 4 years, 15 million signed by Carmona last year.

I never say anything about the Yankees financial advantage and how the use it. I know, and acknowledge it.

You guys are a bunch of hypocrites. It's only an advantage when the Yankees use it, or it benefits the Red Sox or their fan's point of view. When the Red Sox do it, it's a great deal.

f***ing pathetic hypocrites, is what you are.

That being said, it's a bit of a risky deal to give a pitcher with health problems that much money, if you ask me.

You can't be serious. Are you delusional and forget what the Yanks just payed Burnett?

Burnett/16M a year, Lester/Dice-K combined for 14M. Enough said.

This post drips of sour grapes. And once again Gom lowers the bar for petty posting.

But anyways, I like the deal.

Gom · March 8, 2009

Carmona's deal didn't buy out two years of free agency. I guarantee you it's that extra year that drove the price up and gave Gom his conniption.

Besides, what did we spend the money on? Short answer, a guy who proved a lot to us last year as a legitimate lefthanded horse starter. You guys paid how much for the same thing in CC Sabathia?

For the most part those guys don't get the big deal with 2 years of service time because they know they can get a better deal later with less time left on the arbitration clock.

You are, as usual talking out your ass. The deal is a five year deal, with a club option for a 6th year. So, if the Sox exercise the option, it's a 6-year, $43 million dollar deal.

Once again, I really couldn't care less about the deal. I'm just showing how you're a hypocrites.

Fact: The deal DOUBLES the previous high for 2nd year pitchers. DOUBLED. Even when you take into effect the one extra year, it is an average of $6 million a year over 4 years, where Carmona would have gotten $3.75 million over 4 years...and his deal was last year in a much better economic climate.

Not only that' date=' but it's an outright lie creating his favorite thing, a stawman argument to go to battle against. Just about every person here who is either in favor of a salary cap or who says the current system is inequitable acknowledges the benefit our team gets from it. Gom's fighting the good fight....against himself. Well, given his desperate approach to the women that bother to come to this site, I get the sense he's used to handling himself.[/quote']

What did I lie about? I never brought up salary cap. I never said we don't have a fiscal advantage. I just stated that by doubling the contract total of the previous high, with an AAV that is 60% of the previous record, the Red Sox are engaging in the very same things the Yankees do, i.e. flaunting their economic might.

Considering you brought up a) the salary cap, which I never have mentioned and your opinion of my approach to women, this is inarguably, the biggest strawman post of the year. Thanks, ORS...your post defines "strawman".

You are a delusional f*** tard. Yea they shouldve lowballed a guy who got over cancer' date=' and then became of one the best lefties in baseball. [/quote']
Yes, you stupid ********, that's exactly what they should have done. It's called negotiating, and it was talking your mother down to $25 bucks that got her knocked up with you in the first place, *******.

f***ing pathetic hypocrite, thats what you are. OMG 5 years/$30 million, the FO is now in the shitter for this Kevin Brown type contract
I didn't equate it. However, there is ZERO precedence for what they've done. Give me one reason you give a pitcher recovering/ed from cancer DOUBLE the money of the next highest 2nd year pitcher AND the AAV being 60% higher than the highest 2nd year contract signed ever. There is none.

Wtf dude yea sox fans talk about yankees getting the big free agents for half a billion... but somehow in your eyes, the Sox giving $44 million over 6 years to a young ace in the making. I havent heard of any Sox fans bashing the Yankees for extending their own prospects.... which has been far and few in between

And this deal isnt the biggest contract given to a player with 2 years service time. Pedroia got a $40 million deal
My mistake on player, I meant to write "pitcher". It's the second highest deal ever for a pitcher with 2 years service time. Sox fans have no right to talk about this. They never have. I'm just showing that your team flaunts its money just as much as the Yankees do..they just have less of it. So to whine and bitch about it when you are ignorant of the fact shows that, well..you're an idiot. There is no precedence for doing what they did. Period.

Secondly, this has NOTHING to do with the Yankees off-season deals, or their spending habits. I have ALWAYS acknowledged that the Yankees spend money like it's going out of style, and have in the past, given out some bad contracts and made poor business decisions. I am not saying that the Lester deal is a bad deal, it just set a new bar that was unnecessarily high, with no precedence in doing so.

Service Class

The most lucrative multi-year contracts in baseball, by service class, by AAV
(excluding international free agents and drafted players signing ML contracts):

Less than 1 year of Major League service:

CC Sabathia, $2,375,000 (2002-05)
Roy Halladay, $1,233,333 (2000-02)
Brandon Webb, $1,100,000 (2004-06)

1 plus years of Major League service:
Chris Young, $5,600,000 (2008-12)
Fausto Carmona, $3,750,000 (2008-11)

Is this what you're talking about? Are you talking about overall value of the contract, or yearly value?

Jon Lester has 2.072 years of service time and signed a 5 year, $30m deal. Chris Young (ARI) has 2.045 years of service time and signed a 5 year $28m deal. Is that double?
I took the liberty of editing your post to include just pitchers, and with similar service time. Please excuse my liberty in doing so.

As you can see, no one is close.

Also, in looking up Chris Young, I found the following information from Cot's Baseball Contracts. He signed a 4 yr/14.5 million dollar deal. I am not sure where you got 5 years/28 million. In this case, if Cot's is correct, he would have got MORE THAN DOUBLE.

how in God's name does a 5-year' date=' $30 million deal compare with the insane contracts the Yankees give out?[/quote']
It doesn't in overall dollars. That isn't the point. The point is that this is like when the Yankees blew out the offers for Sabathia. This is even worse. The Red Sox have set a bar that the rest of baseball will have much more difficulty keeping up with. Sabathia is a one-shot deal, and a bona-fide free agent. Lester, and other two year players, aren't.

This is about the Yankees. It's about the Sox.

You can't be serious. Are you delusional and forget what the Yanks just payed Burnett?

Burnett/16M a year, Lester/Dice-K combined for 14M. Enough said.

This post drips of sour grapes. And once again Gom lowers the bar for petty posting.

But anyways, I like the deal.

Ah....again...this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE YANKEES SPENDING HABITS.

You're also comparing a 2nd year player to a free agent. How does Brad Penny look against Lester? Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

To recapitulate, the Red Sox made a bad deal for baseball. How Lester does is irrelevant. They went abouve the previous high set last year for 2nd year pitchers by 60% in AAV, and doubled the overall contract value. If you compare Lester and Carmona's 2nd years, Carmona was better in my mind. Don't go off on a tangent and compare them, so for arguments sake, we'll say they're even in quality of player.

This has nothing to do with baseball. The Red Sox have hurt the competitive balance of balance of baseball by offering an unprecedentedly high salary in a very weak economic time.

To bring in your hated enemy, the Yankees do it all the time. Now, maybe you start to see that your team does it too. At the same extent? No. That wasn't the point.

Do I think the deal is a good or bad one? It's irrelevant, but I think there's a lot of risk. He's a special player, at least so far, and if he competes at anywhere near that level, he'll be worth the money overall considering the going rate for pitchers on the market. However, there is no reason that they couldn't have done this deal for 20-22 million with a club option.

I will say this....ORS, even though you had by far the biggest strawman response, at least you acknowledge your team's financial advantage, and would rather see a cap even though your team would be hit hard. I respect that. In that case, you're a more fair fan than me. I want my team to keep it's advantage.

The rest of you, I'm not sure.

Feel free to post your opinions. If you bring up the Yankees contracts, then...you're an idiot. Defend this signing, not the others. Want to know why? Because other 2nd year players will go to their teams and say..."Well, look at what Lester got". So the same argument will be made against your case when you try to bring up the Yankees.

Let's hear what you have to say....

ORS · March 8, 2009

What did I lie about? I never brought up salary cap. I never said we don't have a fiscal advantage. I just stated that by doubling the contract total of the previous high, with an AAV that is 60% of the previous record, the Red Sox are engaging in the very same things the Yankees do, i.e. flaunting their economic might.

Considering you brought up a) the salary cap, which I never have mentioned and your opinion of my approach to women, this is inarguably, the biggest strawman post of the year. Thanks, ORS...your post defines "strawman".

Jesus, are you a simpleton. Do you mean to tell me that you are incapable of connecting the dots and recognizing how the pro salary cap crowd here is in the same group that you call "hypocrites"? Are you really this dense?

No, Gom, it's not a strawman. That's the second time you've attempted to throw that back in my face when I've called you out for doing it, and it's the second time you've failed in your attempt. Stop, you simply can't grasp the concept.

Oh, and the women thing is an obvious joke at your expense. Again, not a strawman. Try again, at some point, you'll hit the nail on the head. It's the whole chimps, typerwriters, and the works of Shakespeare theory.

TheKilo · March 8, 2009

Not only that' date=' but it's an outright lie creating his favorite thing, a stawman argument to go to battle against. Just about every person here who is either in favor of a salary cap or who says the current system is inequitable acknowledges the benefit our team gets from it. Gom's fighting the good fight....against himself. [b']Well, given his desperate approach to the women that bother to come to this site, I get the sense he's used to handling himself.[/b]

lololololololololololololol

Best post ever.

I have mixed feelings of the deal. If Lester replicates his 08 it's obviously great, but it seems a little foolish to give him 5 years guaranteed when they can still go year to year with him.

In terms of financials, it's good for the Sox and good for Jon so I guess that's the important thing.

jacksonianmarch · March 8, 2009

Did the sox flaunt their financial might? In a sense, yeah, but so be it

I do agree with Gom on this point. It is risky. Lester was mediocre until last yr and then experienced a MASSIVE IP jump to a very high IP count. Thats a recipe for injury and doling out a contract like this could easily be overpaying. But at 6 mil a yr its easily absorbable

example1 · March 8, 2009

My mistake on player, I meant to write "pitcher".

Well then you should have written "pitcher". Because you did not, the rest of your idiotic defense of your post is wrong. Face it, you were wrong. You put your giant, swollen foot in your mouth while you were trying to take people to task on this board for something that none of us were responsible for in the first place. You look like an ass, and now you're backpeddling like someone who knows he looks like an ass.

It's the second highest deal ever for a pitcher with 2 years service time.

So it isn't double the price of the highest paid player ever? I guess that means you are wrong again.

I took the liberty of editing your post to include just pitchers, and with similar service time. Please excuse my liberty in doing so.

Please excuse my liberty in telling you to go F yourself. Because...

Also, in looking up Chris Young, I found the following information from Cot's Baseball Contracts. He signed a 4 yr/14.5 million dollar deal. I am not sure where you got 5 years/28 million. In this case, if Cot's is correct, he would have got MORE THAN DOUBLE.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You clearly weren't even able to tell the difference between Chris Young--Pitcher for the Padres--and Chris Young, young phenom CF for the Diamondbacks. I TOOK THE LIST I PROVIDED FROM COT'S TOO DUMBASS!!

If YOU had looked up the right Chris Young then you would see that the contract I quoted is what he got. If YOU had made it clear that you were talking about pitchers, then I wouldn't have included any of those fielders in the first place. Your fault, not mine.

Go back to trying to sell your season tickets instead of insulting people who try to respond intelligently to your idiotic posts.

To recapitulate, the Red Sox made a bad deal for baseball. How Lester does is irrelevant. They went abouve the previous high set last year for 2nd year pitchers by 60% in AAV, and doubled the overall contract value.

No, they didn't. You just said he was the 2ND HIGHEST PAID 2nd YEAR PITCHER. So they didn't go above the previous high for 2nd year pitchers.

Where were you when Cole Hamels got 6.833m with the same amount of experience? How about when Kazmir and Oswalt got about 9m with 3 years experience?

Let me ask you Gom, will you still be talking about the Red Sox disservice to baseball next year, when Lester is making considerably less than the highest paid 3rd year signings? How about when he's still making 6m in his 4th year?

How about those other 3rd, 4th and 5th year pitchers?

You're a f***ing idiot:

Pitchers with 2+:

(in millions)

Cole Hamels: 6.833

Jon Lester: 6.0

Brandon Webb: 4.875

Pitchers with 3+

Scot Kazmir: 9.5

Roy Oswalt: 8.45

Ervin Santana: 7.5

Mark Buehrle: 6.0

Jon Lester: 6.0

Pitchers with 4+

Dan Haren: 11.187

Johan Santana: 9.937

Dontrelle WIllis: 9.666

Zack Greinke: 9.5

Jeremy Bonderan: 9.5

Eric Gagne: 9.5

Aaron Harang: 9.125

Brett yers: 8.583

Ben Sheets: 7.7

Jon Lester: 6.0

Pitchers with 5+:

Jake Peavy: 17.33

Brad Lidge: 12.5

Javier Vazquez: 11.25

Jon Lester: 6.0

So, while the Sox are paying him the SECOND most for a pitcher with his experience level (sooo, not breaking any mold there), and they are drastically UNDERPAYING him relative to other pitchers who were had big early paydays in their 3rd, 4th or 5th years.

I'm so unimpressed with this line of argument that I don't even know what to say.

Psychologically, I would say that you have been feeling guilty about something related to the Yankees. Clearly our arguments--and the general consensus in baseball that they have been trying to buy championships--have worked, as you now feel the need to leap on any $$ related move by the Red Sox as justification for your club's bloated spending habits.

You don't have a single leg to stand on. You say we're "Hypocrites!" because we accuse the Yankees of using their financial might, but then you say "you can't bring up the Yankees" in our arguments.

It's the argument of a 3rd grader and, frankly, I'm surprised that it's coming from you.

example1 · March 8, 2009

Did the sox flaunt their financial might? In a sense, yeah, but so be it

I do agree with Gom on this point. It is risky.

What is risky is waiting another year and paying a lot more per year in his 3rd or 4th year. This is a bargain, and it isn't close. Just look at other players who resigned in their 3rd or 4th seasons...

Lester was mediocre until last yr and then experienced a MASSIVE IP jump to a very high IP count. Thats a recipe for injury and doling out a contract like this could easily be overpaying. But at 6 mil a yr its easily absorbable

Lester had cancer and was one of the most highly touted minor league pitchers when healthy, pitching above his age level. The ONLY year that they are over paying is this year, and that is only under the assumption that he is considerably worse than Cole Hamels. Considering that I didn't hear any complaints from you or Gom about Hamels' deal, I assume you believe he (Hamels) is worth the price.

Gom · March 8, 2009

Jesus, are you a simpleton. Do you mean to tell me that you are incapable of connecting the dots and recognizing how the pro salary cap crowd here is in the same group that you call "hypocrites"? Are you really this dense?

No, Gom, it's not a strawman. That's the second time you've attempted to throw that back in my face when I've called you out for doing it, and it's the second time you've failed in your attempt. Stop, you simply can't grasp the concept.

Oh, and the women thing is an obvious joke at your expense. Again, not a strawman. Try again, at some point, you'll hit the nail on the head. It's the whole chimps, typerwriters, and the works of Shakespeare theory.

You, my good sir, are an idiot. Really. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and you are too mentally retarded to realize that.

If you're looking at salary cap, that's one thing. The Red Sox, with all their whining and bitching...just like when they failed to make a deal for Arod, complain about salary cap. They did it in 2004, and now in 2008. Realize, that in both cases, with Arod, and now with Tex, they only cry salary cap after they, with first crack at negotiations, fail, and then the Yankees swoop in and make the deal. It's comic, and even funnier that you guys fall for it every year.

The result is this...and all I'm saying is this. If you applaud this deal, and the precedence it sets, then you can't logically be for a salary cap...because such deals would kill caps. You can't see that, that's your mental deficiencies.

I guess when I make a post about a bad precedence being set for fiscal responsibility, and you bring up my dating with women, and that's not strawman, well....go back to sleep. I'll wake you when the adults are done arguing.

This next one...is a classic in stupidity. Read on for a good laugh.

Well then you should have written "pitcher". Because you did not, the rest of your idiotic defense of your post is wrong. Face it, you were wrong. You put your giant, swollen foot in your mouth while you were trying to take people to task on this board for something that none of us were responsible for in the first place. You look like an ass, and now you're backpeddling like someone who knows he looks like an ass.

Ok, tough guy. I listed Carmona's deal, and not Pedroia. Why? I meant to say pitcher. Feel better dumbass? The argument still stands. I admitted I meant pitcher when I said player. That's why I didn't list player...dumbass.

So it isn't double the price of the highest paid player ever? I guess that means you are wrong again.

No dumbass. I meant pitcher. Want to go over it again?

Please excuse my liberty in telling you to go F yourself. Because...

Figures when you're undressed and shown to be a mental midget.

:lol: You clearly weren't even able to tell the difference between Chris Young--Pitcher for the Padres--and Chris Young, young phenom CF for the Diamondbacks. I TOOK THE LIST I PROVIDED FROM COT'S TOO DUMBASS!!

No, I wasn't because I was looking at PITCHERS. Shall we go to reminding you that you're a dumbass?

If YOU had looked up the right Chris Young then you would see that the contract I quoted is what he got. If YOU had made it clear that you were talking about pitchers, then I wouldn't have included any of those fielders in the first place. Your fault, not mine.

Fine...but since we've clarified that we're talking pitchers, it's a moot point.

Go back to trying to sell your season tickets instead of insulting people who try to respond intelligently to your idiotic posts.

I still have some for sale. Sadly, I don't think you could afford them.

No, they didn't. You just said he was the 2ND HIGHEST PAID 2nd YEAR PITCHER. So they didn't go above the previous high for 2nd year pitchers.
Where were you when Cole Hamels got 6.833m with the same amount of experience? How about when Kazmir and Oswalt got about 9m with 3 years experience?

Hammels was considered a super two/three year player if I remember correctly....and was heading into arbitration. Apparently, this escapes your infantile mind.

Let me ask you Gom, will you still be talking about the Red Sox disservice to baseball next year, when Lester is making considerably less than the highest paid 3rd year signings? How about when he's still making 6m in his 4th year?

How about those other 3rd, 4th and 5th year pitchers?

You're a f***ing idiot:

Pitchers with 2+:
(in millions)
Cole Hamels: 6.833
Jon Lester: 6.0
Brandon Webb: 4.875

Pitchers with 3+
Scot Kazmir: 9.5
Roy Oswalt: 8.45
Ervin Santana: 7.5
Mark Buehrle: 6.0
Jon Lester: 6.0

Pitchers with 4+
Dan Haren: 11.187
Johan Santana: 9.937
Dontrelle WIllis: 9.666
Zack Greinke: 9.5
Jeremy Bonderan: 9.5
Eric Gagne: 9.5
Aaron Harang: 9.125
Brett yers: 8.583
Ben Sheets: 7.7
Jon Lester: 6.0

Pitchers with 5+:
Jake Peavy: 17.33
Brad Lidge: 12.5
Javier Vazquez: 11.25
Jon Lester: 6.0

So, while the Sox are paying him the SECOND most for a pitcher with his experience level (sooo, not breaking any mold there), and they are drastically UNDERPAYING him relative to other pitchers who were had big early paydays in their 3rd, 4th or 5th years.

I'm so unimpressed with this line of argument that I don't even know what to say.

Psychologically, I would say that you have been feeling guilty about something related to the Yankees. Clearly our arguments--and the general consensus in baseball that they have been trying to buy championships--have worked, as you now feel the need to leap on any $$ related move by the Red Sox as justification for your club's bloated spending habits.

You don't have a single leg to stand on. You say we're "Hypocrites!" because we accuse the Yankees of using their financial might, but then you say "you can't bring up the Yankees" in our arguments.

It's the argument of a 3rd grader and, frankly, I'm surprised that it's coming from you.

The rest of the post is a classic in utter stupidity. Would they have had to sign Lester for more next year? Of course. If they waited to sign him two years later, assuming similar numbers, they would have spent even more. So the entire section of listing all the pitchers is a waste of time. I left it there to show how clueless you are.

This isn't about whether the deal was a good or bad one for the Sox. It was a bad one for baseball. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

The fact remains. The precedent for 2nd year pitchers was set last year, in another bad deal I thought, for Carmona. There is no justifiable reason for giving a contract to a pitcher that is double the amount of money as the 2nd highest, and 60% more in AAV.

These are exactly the kind of deals that are bad for baseball. I never care about deals like Burnett's deal. The Yankees offered a couple million more for AJ then their next best competitor. Same with Tex. However, CC's deal was bad for baseball. The Yankees so far outdistanced the competition, it really wasn't even fair.

The Red Sox have done the same with Lester. You can't see that?

I asked you not to bring in the Yankees payroll/spending habits, but you were too dense to see this...but I can't really complain, it's beyond you to have a logical argument about anything without your bias coming through. I expected better than that for you.

From ORS, I guess he's just going senile, that's all.

So...taking the vitrol out of this...let me try this another way so the Talksox panties don't get caught in a bunch.

Are you for a salary cap?

If yes, then how do you feel about the Red Sox deal with Lester?

Was it a good deal for baseball where the Red Sox offer a deal that was worth for so much more than the precedents set for 2nd year pitchers?

Please post what you think without your "fandom" coming into play [which pretty much leaves ORS out of this].

Reconcile this deal with how it fits in fairness and equality under the cap.

If you ask me, it's deals like this that are more damaging than the CC deal. The fact that the Yankees are my team is not the point. It was a damaging deal for baseball. No one really complained of the Tex or AJ deals, just CC, and with good reason.

I think the signing for the Sox is good if Lester stays healthy. I think it was bad for baseball. This one may have more of an impact because there are a lot of 2nd year pitchers who will benefit from this, a lot more than potential Sabathias.

Cocos Disciples · March 8, 2009

5/30 is pretty awesome for Lester. I approve.

BSN07 · March 8, 2009

The rest of you, I'm not sure.

Let's hear what you have to say....

I am on record as saying I would like a salary cap. It would expose franchises that are badly run. As in scouting, drafting, re-signing players, signing FA, trades.

I also think the Sox would continue to do well. The FO drafts and develops young talent pretty well. Which would be key with a salary cap. They have shown they can look for a good bargain with FA's. And shown self control by placing a certain value on a player and sticking to it.

But in the end there is no cap, the Yankees spend $$ like theirs an expiration date, and still lose. So It's hard to argue against keeping things the same:D

jacksonianmarch · March 8, 2009

What is risky is waiting another year and paying a lot more per year in his 3rd or 4th year. This is a bargain, and it isn't close. Just look at other players who resigned in their 3rd or 4th seasons...

Lester had cancer and was one of the most highly touted minor league pitchers when healthy, pitching above his age level. The ONLY year that they are over paying is this year, and that is only under the assumption that he is considerably worse than Cole Hamels. Considering that I didn't hear any complaints from you or Gom about Hamels' deal, I assume you believe he (Hamels) is worth the price.

Waiting another yr does get more expensive. But with pitchers, especially those with big IP jumps, it is prudent to wait. If Lester avoids injury, this deal is a massive steal. If he doesnt, then this deal is stupid

ORS · March 8, 2009

You, my good sir, are an idiot. Really. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and you are too mentally retarded to realize that.

If you're looking at salary cap, that's one thing. The Red Sox, with all their whining and bitching...just like when they failed to make a deal for Arod, complain about salary cap. They did it in 2004, and now in 2008. Realize, that in both cases, with Arod, and now with Tex, they only cry salary cap after they, with first crack at negotiations, fail, and then the Yankees swoop in and make the deal. It's comic, and even funnier that you guys fall for it every year.

The result is this...and all I'm saying is this. If you applaud this deal, and the precedence it sets, then you can't logically be for a salary cap...because such deals would kill caps. You can't see that, that's your mental deficiencies.

If you'll notice everyone, he doesn't try and defend his error in calling the salary cap a strawman point, because he can't. I'm right there. He knows it.

Instead, he goes off on some irrelevant, childish attempt to somehow lump any point I may have made about a salary cap with John Henry's. I don't know where he's going there, any ideas folks? Whenever the subject comes up, regardless of what the latest hot stove news was, I have been in favor of a cap, despite what benefits my team reaps from not having one.

Sure, I can logically be for a salary cap while calling this a good deal. It's a good deal if they beat the market, and I think they did. What that means relative to a salary cap is irrelevant, at least to an intelligent person it is. Whether or not there is a salary cap is the rules of the game. I expect every team to act within the framework of the rules to try and win, and I expect every fan to desire that they do so whether or not they are in agreement with those rules. Here's a comparable situation that brings the field of play into the thought process, suppose I was against the DH and wanted pitchers to hit. In your simpleton world, I wouldn't be allowed to root for the Sox because they used a DH, which is in accordance with the rules of their league. Only a great fool would support that. Guess where you fit in?

BSN07 · March 9, 2009

If you'll notice everyone, he doesn't try and defend his error in calling the salary cap a strawman point, because he can't. I'm right there. He knows it.

Instead, he goes off on some irrelevant, childish attempt to somehow lump any point I may have made about a salary cap with John Henry's. I don't know where he's going there, any ideas folks? Whenever the subject comes up, regardless of what the latest hot stove news was, I have been in favor of a cap, despite what benefits my team reaps from not having one.

Sure, I can logically be for a salary cap while calling this a good deal. It's a good deal if they beat the market, and I think they did. What that means relative to a salary cap is irrelevant, at least to an intelligent person it is. Whether or not there is a salary cap is the rules of the game. I expect every team to act within the framework of the rules to try and win, and I expect every fan to desire that they do so whether or not they are in agreement with those rules. Here's a comparable situation that brings the field of play into the thought process, suppose I was against the DH and wanted pitchers to hit. In your simpleton world, I wouldn't be allowed to root for the Sox because they used a DH, which is in accordance with the rules of their league. Only a great fool would support that. Guess where you fit in?

:clap: :lol:

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