Masterson to begin ST as starter

[TheKilo]

http://fullcount.weei.com/general/its-nice-to-have-peace-and-tranquility-on-day-1/

 

The team will talk with Justin Masterson about his role going forward Friday. Epstein pointed out that the pitcher will know his role by the time camp breaks, although it will most likely be determined definitively closer to the end of spring training. Masterson will start out his progressions as a starter.

 

The right move, IMO.

[italstallianion]

I'm kind of torn on this one. I do think that good talent such as Masterson would generally be better suited as a starter, however I think we'd have the best bullpen in baseball if he were there.

 

What I like about this is that we have question marks in the rotation, and I'm never that confident about Wakefield or whoever our 5th starter is. Personally I think that Masterson should start at the beginning of the year and hold Smoltz's spot, and then shift to the bullpen afterwards. This is also because I don't want to increase Masterson's innings total by all that much in one season.

 

With that said, I trust Theo and company and we have depth to help with those question marks.

[BoSox21]

This move is just to make sure the option of having him as a starter or reliever is still available to the club. If he starts his progressions as a reliever, it would be a lot more difficult to put him in as a starter when camp breaks.

 

I still think the best way to go for Masterson is to have him as a reliever. His stuff is better suited for relief pitching as well. Plus he'd be the only guy in the bullpen capable of long relief duties.

[BSN07]

This move is just to make sure the option of having him as a starter or reliever is still available to the club. If he starts his progressions as a reliever, it would be a lot more difficult to put him in as a starter when camp breaks.

 

I still think the best way to go for Masterson is to have him as a reliever. His stuff is better suited for relief pitching as well. Plus he'd be the only guy in the bullpen capable of long relief duties.

 

I agree 100%.

[Cocos Disciples]

So if he opens the year as a starter, Penny is the long man?

[BoSox21]

Maybe it all hinges on how Penny's shoulder holds up during ST, whether they think he can handle the workload of starting every 5th day

[TheKilo]

My stance on this is that 180 innings is more valuable than 60 - with Papelbon, Ramirez, Saito, and Okajima, the Sox have a very formidable back half of the bullpen with Dan Bard waiting in the wings.

 

Masterson was a very good SP for the Sox last year. I also think this allows the team to hedge their bets in case Wakefield or Penny have health issues.

[BoSox21]

If I remember his starts correctly though, Masterson often got into trouble during his second and third times through the lineup and the fact that he only has two very good pitches, at least at this point in his career, suggests he's better suited for the bullpen, plus the fact that he dominates righties makes him a nightmare to matchup against.

[diony]

So if he opens the year as a starter' date=' Penny is the long man?[/quote']

 

Or Wake.

 

Good move. Now with Saito, Ramirez and Smoltz, you don't need to waste a young arm in the pen. He gives the Sox some depth too.

[Dojji]

If I remember his starts correctly though' date=' Masterson often got into trouble during his second and third times through the lineup and the fact that he only has two very good pitches, at least at this point in his career, suggests he's better suited for the bullpen, plus the fact that he dominates righties makes him a nightmare to matchup against.[/quote']

 

The fact is though that there are a lot of sinkerballers who have similar issues as starters and get by fine. Classic example is Brandon Webb, who gives up a much higher AVG against lefties (.060 higher) and still is effective enough to get the job done very well indeed. If you can strike people out and pitch to contact you can usually get by pretty well. Another example: Fausto Carmona.

 

I would have been very happy to keep Masterson as a starter all year last year. Look at his IP, he never went amazingly deep into games but he was always good for 6 innings -- your quintessential quality start. If he kept that up he would have been good for a prorated 180 innings last year and our rotation would have been a fair bit deeper than it was, especially since the move of Masterson to the pen depended on Buchholz working out of his problems and he didn't.

 

It seems to me that as useful as he was in the pen in the playoffs, the value of not having to rely on Wakefield to start game 4 of the ALCS might have been the difference that put us in the World Series against the Phillies, who we manhandled at their place last year in interleague play.

 

The only thing that worries me with Masterson as a starter is command of the third pitch. He had a few walks trying to locate his change against lefties last year.

 

Again: the possibility or not of Masterson actually BEING a starter when we break camp isn't discussed yet. What we're talking about here is the team reserving for itself the option of using Masterson as a starting pitcher.

[BSN07]

If I remember his starts correctly though' date=' Masterson often got into trouble during his second and third times through the lineup and the fact that he only has two very good pitches, at least at this point in his career, suggests he's better suited for the bullpen, plus the fact that he dominates righties makes him a nightmare to matchup against.[/quote']

 

I agree with you there. His lack of a 3rd pitch will hinder him going late into games. And i think he is better off in the BP right now. But if he is the 5 SP out of camp so be it. They could do a lot worse.

 

 

If anything should help increase his value.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

His lack of a 3rd pitch will hinder him going late into games.

 

Conjecture.

[Cocos Disciples]

Or Wake.

 

 

I doubt it, it's easier to have a personal catcher when you're a starter.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I agree with you there. His lack of a 3rd pitch will hinder him going late into games. And i think he is better off in the BP right now. But if he is the 5 SP out of camp so be it. They could do a lot worse.

 

 

If anything should help increase his value.

 

Sinkerballers can do it with 2 pitches. Both his sinker and slider are filthy. All he needs is a get me over curve for a change of pace. I would be more worried with Mr. Masterson's shaky control. With the movement he has on his sinker/slider combo, he will dominate if he can throw with reasonable, consistent accuracy.

[diony]

Sinkerballers can do it with 2 pitches. Both his sinker and slider are filthy. All he needs is a get me over curve for a change of pace. I would be more worried with Mr. Masterson's shaky control. With the movement he has on his sinker/slider combo' date=' he will dominate if he can throw with reasonable, consistent accuracy.[/quote']

 

Yeah, crappy sinkerballers. :thumbsup:

[rician blast]

Biggest issue for Mast last year, IMO, was control of the slider...his moves a tremendous amount but he was missing with it quite often. Kid has the tools though and ultimately I expect he'll develop his command.

[THE ARS]

If I remember his starts correctly though' date=' Masterson often got into trouble during his second and third times through the lineup and the fact that he only has two very good pitches, at least at this point in his career, suggests he's better suited for the bullpen, plus the fact that he dominates righties makes him a nightmare to matchup against.[/quote']

 

You don't remember.

 

He was nasty, the profs didn't let him go nine.

 

Start him and Bucholz, everyone in that rotation has a sick arm. Everyone 90+, everyone with something to work off of it.

 

Five young guns.

 

 

 

Tom

[Cocos Disciples]

First time through the order (unfortunately this includes as a reliever): .209/.315/.332 in 217 PAs

Second time through order: .225/.321/.451 in 81 PAs

Third+ time through order: .228/.328/.416 in 67 PAs

 

So besides the SLG in the 2nd time it wasn't so drastic.

[Dojji]

Very much looking forward to possible future Beckett-Lester-Buchholz-Matsuzaka-Masterson rotations -- that could be the reality if everything goes right within this season.

[TheKilo]

Yeah' date=' crappy sinkerballers. :thumbsup:[/quote']

 

Like Chien Ming Wang?

[diony]

Like Chien Ming Wang?

 

Wang has only two pitches? That's certainly news to me. Check again.

[jacksonianmarch]

Biggest issue for Mast last year' date=' IMO, was control of the slider...his moves a tremendous amount but he was missing with it quite often. Kid has the tools though and ultimately I expect he'll develop his command.[/quote']

 

I agree that his slider is just sick nasty. I just have a hard time thinking he's gonna be able to handle a lineup 3 times through without a significant out pitch vs lefties. His changeup is below average. If he gets it to league average, I expect he'll be an effective starter. And I think that is what they are trying to do with him in ST. If he doesnt develop that changeup, I doubt he has long term success in the rotation and I would expect him to be a pen arm

[TheKilo]

Wang has only two pitches? That's certainly news to me. Check again.

 

Sinker, terrible change, fastball?

[jacksonianmarch]

wang has a good enough slider. Thing is, his sinker is best in the game IMO.

[diony]

Sinker' date=' terrible change, fastball?[/quote']

 

Four seam fastball, Sinker, Slider, Changeup and an occasional splitter. Thank you very much:lol:

[Dojji]

None of which miss bats nearly as well as EITHER Masterson's sinker OR his slider.

 

Wang is an overglorified Jesse Litsch type who gets by on pure command and deception and one good pitch. He's unique for being very successful at doing it that way but it's still what it is.

 

Oh and by that token Masterson is a 4 pitch pitcher, if you're going to differentiate between 4 seam fastball and sinker.

[TheKilo]

Four seam fastball' date=' Sinker, Slider, Changeup and an occasional splitter. Thank you very much:lol:[/quote']

 

lolok

[diony]

None of which miss bats nearly as well as EITHER Masterson's sinker OR his slider.

Ehhh so? Missing bats not necessarily means success.

 

I don't even want to think you're implying Masterson's sinker is better than Wang's, but okay.

 

Lol @ his .243 BABIP and 4.69 FIP last season.

[Dojji]

Ehhh so? Missing bats not necessarily means success.

 

It sure helps.

I don't even want to think you're implying Masterson's sinker is better than Wang's, but okay.

 

Masterson's combined stuff is a match for Wang's combined stuff and then some. Wang gets by on command and deception.

 

Lol @ his .243 BABIP and 4.69 FIP last season.

 

Because smoke and mirrors form no part of Wang's performances so far.

[diony]

It sure helps.

 

Good sinkerballers like Wang are not afraid to pitch for contact.

 

Masterson's combined stuff is a match for Wang's combined stuff and then some. Wang gets by on command and deception.

 

Sure sure, bias more.

Because smoke and mirrors form no part of Wang's performances so far.

 

A groundball pitcher with one of the worst defenses in the majors behind him is a fluky pitcher, sureeeeeee everything makes sense now