Red Sox made play for SS Ramirez

[Dojji]

How did Teixeira limit our future options?

 

They aren't working on a long-term deal for Youks.

Lowell's contract is up in 2010.

Ortiz's in 2011.

 

I find it very difficult to believe they will resign the big man in the wake of all his health concerns - especially at the price he'll be asking for.

 

Tell me who Teixeira blocks again?

 

Why are we making this about Teixeira again?

[TheKilo]

Because I find it interesting when you advocate trading for an individual who isn't as good as Teixeira, even though trading for Berkman costs young talent whereas Teixeira only costs money.

 

Your principal argument for not trading for Teixiera was that the marginal upgrade was not worth spending $23 million per for, which is sound (even though I don't agree with it). Now you're saying trade good young talent away for a lesser player? Doesn't make sense, especially when signing Teixeira would NOT have blocked the golden boy.

[redsoxrules]

Why are we making this about Teixeira again?

 

because you're the one who f***ing mentioned it

[Dojji]

Because I find it interesting when you advocate trading for an individual who isn't as good as Teixeira, even though trading for Berkman costs young talent whereas Teixeira only costs money.

 

Your principal argument for not trading for Teixiera was that the marginal upgrade was not worth spending $23 million per for, which is sound (even though I don't agree with it). Now you're saying trade good young talent away for a lesser player? Doesn't make sense, especially when signing Teixeira would NOT have blocked the golden boy.

 

Look at the guys I'd be giving up in my deal. Only Exposito of the two players is in the top 10.

 

If we did this deal this way we actually get cheaper and more productive at the same time, we keep our draft pick, and giving up an A-ball catcher is not that big a price to pay -- we rate him highly but the world has seen Luis Expositos before and there's 3 decent catching prospects ahead of him in our system, usually a good sign a guy's expendable.

 

As for Johnson, Kris Johnson is the living embodiment of a trade piece, as he's talented in a Nate Robertson sort of way but unlikely to crack the rotation in Boston.

[diony]

Here's a name I'd love to see on a thread like this: Lance Berkman. If Houston is regrouping it could happen. A three-way with Philly, Houston and Boston would get that done and it might improve the team without exorbitant costs in talent and dollars for the Sox.

 

Philly gets:

 

Mike Lowell

Kris Johnson

 

Houston gets

Jason Donald

Luis Exposito

 

Boston gets

Lance Berkman

 

Something like that works on paper. Lowell winds up on a contender so I doubt he'd complain, and we get a very nice switch hitting power 1Bman with Youks at third and not too far out of our way prospect wise.

 

So the Sox give a 35 year old 3B coming from hip surgery and a A+ Catcher with no OBP skills and some random AA lefty to get Lance Berkman? Come up with something more realistic.

 

Why trading for a 1B when you have Lars Anderson?! :thumbsup:

[CrespoBlows]

Philly gets a better deal than Houston does.

 

How the f*** did you come up with this one?

[Dojji]

So the Sox give a 35 year old 3B coming from hip surgery

 

Read: your stereotypical rental: a productive veteran signed to short years at a need position for the Phillies

 

and a A+ Catcher with no OBP skills

 

And one of our top prospects who's a terriffic defensive catcher.

 

and some random AA lefty

 

Who was a first round pick and could make the big leagues midseason if a team needed him

 

to get Lance Berkman? Come up with something more realistic.

 

I thought that was pretty realistic. A bit ambitious I grant you but not outside the realm of possibility. It sort of depends on how Houston and Philly feel acout the prospects they'd be getting. Picking up a veteran need and a SP prospect for a blocked SS prospect isn't the worst thing for Philly who's in GFIN position for the next couple years and probably should be making a deal of that kind with Donald anyway. As for the Astros they might need someone like Bard or Reddick to sweeten their end of the deal but if the Astros are committed to getting cheaper there are worse ways to do it.

 

Why trading for a 1B when you have Lars Anderson?! :thumbsup:

 

Hey. I think Anderson could kill the ball with the Sox out of camp this year if he was needed but I'm not in charge of personnel development. A guy like Berkman gives us a few years of solid production from 1B without increasing the likelihood that Anderson will wind up in a different uniform. And if you're as worried about Lowell as some of you guys sounded when I was opposing the Teixeira signing, moving him at all is probably an additional benefit.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you think that that is realistic then you dont know baseball. Berkman and Teixeira are VERY similar, actually Berkman has had some more productive yrs in the past. The only difference is 4 yrs in age. The idea that you would get a switch hitting, 32 yr old, perennial MVP candidate for what amounts to the sox C level prospects and a 35 yr old who may not be a factor anymore is laughable. Outright laughable

[Cocos Disciples]

Who was a first round pick and could make the big leagues midseason if a team needed him

 

He's never pitched above AA, and even in AA he had a 1.48 WHIP and a 1.93 K/BB. A team would have to be really desperate to use him in the Majors this year.

[Dojji]

for what amounts to the sox C level prospects

 

Sure because that's what I was doing. Definitely. Rather than offering a MLB-ready starter and our top catching prospect and swinging a good veteran for a SS prospect.

[jacksonianmarch]

You mean the guy with 1.51 and 1.49WHIPs in the minors over the past 2 yrs? MLB ready my ass. Maybe as a long reliever or when Kei Igawa isnt available.

 

Exposito did nothing prior to this yr, and all of his progress was made below AA. He is not a top prospect right now and doesnt have a ton of worth. If he repeats his power in AA, then he will rise.

 

And Lowell, we all know about. Overpaid, aged 3b with declining skills coming off major surgery to his hip joint.

 

So essentially 2 C level prospects and an old, injured, declining 3b for Berkman. Keep em up. They're hilarious

[Cocos Disciples]

You mean the guy with 1.51 and 1.49WHIPs in the minors over the past 2 yrs? MLB ready my ass. Maybe as a long reliever or when Kei Igawa isnt available.

 

SoxProspects says

Historically performs well in the first two innings, but over his career he has shown a significant fall-off come the third inning, making him a candidate for the bullpen long-term.

 

So yeah he's a long reliever at best.

[Dipre]

Here's a name I'd love to see on a thread like this: Lance Berkman. If Houston is regrouping it could happen. A three-way with Philly, Houston and Boston would get that done and it might improve the team without exorbitant costs in talent and dollars for the Sox.

 

Philly gets:

 

Mike Lowell

Kris Johnson

 

Houston gets

Jason Donald

Luis Exposito

 

Boston gets

Lance Berkman

 

Something like that works on paper. Lowell winds up on a contender so I doubt he'd complain, and we get a very nice switch hitting power 1Bman with Youks at third and not too far out of our way prospect wise.

 

Honestly, a sweeter deal would be much more realistic, probably a couple more prospects, and take out Johnson and add Hagadone or someone of the sort.

[CrespoBlows]

Sure because that's what I was doing. Definitely. Rather than offering a MLB-ready starter and our top catching prospect and swinging a good veteran for a SS prospect.

 

lol owned by Jacko.

[diony]

 

Who was a first round pick and could make the big leagues midseason if a team needed him

 

 

A wasted first round pick.

[Dipre]

A wasted first round pick.

 

Carl Henry says hello...........

[jacksonianmarch]

without him we dont get abreu

[Dipre]

without him we dont get abreu

 

Touche.

 

He still sucked though.

[JimEdHOF2009]

without him we dont get abreu

 

 

Too bad Abreu had to waste such solid years playing for chokers like the Yankees. Had Philly traded him to Boston, he'd have a World Series ring.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Let me be the first to offer Mr. Henry my services in driving Clay, Bowden, Ellsbury, and Bard to Miami.... with the sole provision being, Hanley comes back to Boston with me!

 

I find it very hard to believe the Marlins would part with Hanley.....though they would be getting 2/3rds of the mid-upper end of their rotation and their closer, and CF for the next 10 years. Ellsbury and Clay have All-Star potential and I wouldn't sleep on Bard either...if he can ever harness his stuff...he will be one of the best closers in the game.

[Cocos Disciples]

Buch, Bowden, Bard and Ells is too much IMO.

[example1]

And Lowell, we all know about. Overpaid, aged 3b with declining skills coming off major surgery to his hip joint.

 

No... no... no... stop, stop stop... stop :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Really? Really? You're going to start saying Red Sox players are overpaid? You think his 3 year, $37.5m deal was excessive, huh? Well, Lowell DID drive a hard bargain, but he will be off the books the year after next, so hopefully the Sox can live under the massive weight of that poor contract until them.

[Cocos Disciples]

He's right in terms of Dojji's trade, since it's another team that would have to take on the contract.

[example1]

He's right in terms of Dojji's trade' date=' since it's another team that would have to take on the contract.[/quote']

 

I'm not even paying attention to the merits of the argument. The mere fact that he would call any other team's 3rd highest paid player "overpaid", when his own team has 9 guys who make more than the Sox highest paid player, is comical. The money doesn't matter when it is his players, but it's an extra jab he gets to take at all the other teams.

 

I can't believe the s*** people let this joker get away with around here.

[BSN07]

Wow...what a great deal. Too bad the OTHER teams don't comply with feeding Boston talent while getting next to nothing in return.

 

So...you want Houston to get a 23 year old AA shortstop with an average bat and a 20 year old A ball catching prospect for an All-Star 1B who had a .987 OPS last year?

 

Go back to sleep.

 

How about this? We'll trade you Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson for Youkilis? There is NO WAY you can say no to this deal. Berkman had better numbers last year, and both Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy are considered MUCH better prospects than what you offered.

 

Idiot.

 

I'll admit, I read the post very quickly, and didn't see the names of Buchholz, Bowden, Ellsbury or Anderson, so I thought of it as a good thought.

 

Now that I look at it closer, it's completely unreasonable. Houston would need atleast 1 top prospect coming from somewhere.

 

 

 

I still wouldn't rule out the Sox moving Lowell and signing Dunn to a 2 or 3 year deal and put him at 1B. I know this lowers the Defensive side of things, but I think we are all looking for ideas to beef the Offensive side.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

No Adam Dunn, I'm begging you...

[BSN07]

Why because his Batting Average isn't good?<_>

 

 

He plays 150+ games a year. Hits 40 HR on a consistant basis. He's a career .381 OBP, .899 OPS. Yes he strikes out alot, and his Glove isn't superb, but he's no push over either.

 

He's just a suggestion anyways.

 

He's 29 and might be able to had on a short term deal. 2/24?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Why because his Batting Average isn't good?<_>

That and his s***-ass defense.

[BSN07]

That and his s***-ass defense.

 

BAA is about the worst stat to use for any argument. And with some work he can be passable at 1B.

[ORS]

He's consistently about 10 runs worse per 150 games at 1B than he is in LF, according to UZR. The best place to play him on the Sox is in LF, where he costs about 15 runs per 150 games in the field. To be fair, though, UZR does not like Jason Bay either, as he was -15.9 combined in Pitt/Bos last year. Although, Bay was a positive LF as recently as 2006, whereas Dunn has held in the -11 to -16 range for the last 4 years.