You've never known me to shy away from controversy, right?

[Dipre]

Overall' date=' it is a massive moneymaker, no matter what Theo and the PR posse try to say. But it does involve a significant up front investment, something we know that the sox ownership would like to avoid.[/quote']

 

Yes, i see you figured out all the logistics and implications of building a new, billion-dollar investment into a well though-out paragraph, disregarding the use of logic and attacking the investment habits of a FO that has done nothing BUT invest in their product since they took command of the franchise.

 

Yes, the fail is strong in this one.

 

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/fail_is_strong.jpg

[jacksonianmarch]

they have done nothing but invest in their product? Have they opened their books for you to see? They are making renovations on something that is already paid for. Solid investment. They have probably the most loyal fanbase in the country who are willing to kill someone to pay way more than another fan for a seat, and they go ahead and CUT spending. Does that make you feel good? Do you need to rationalize that the sox really do put money into their product, really? Do you enjoy EEI spam and swallow the punch out of the FO all the time? The truth remains that the sox are making money HAND OVER FIST. And thus far, this offseason, they have shown their loyalty by FREEZING their all time high ticket prices (thanks JH!!!) and then cutting payroll by 50 mil without one impact addition.

 

You see George had a great quote from awhile back. That Carl Pohlad, he could buy me 100X over and he still doesnt invest in his product. From an owner perspective, George is one of the poorest, yet the yankees continually outspend everyone in order to field their team. He is the ultimate example of a guy who is willing to reinvest in the club. Henry? 2 straight yrs of declining payroll while having the hottest ticket in the US. Downright scandalous. If I was a sox fan, I'd be pissed that he's taking my money and then drawing lines in the sand on absolute needs to the team.

[Dipre]

Overall' date=' it is a massive moneymaker, no matter what Theo and the PR posse try to say. But it does involve a significant up front investment, something we know that the sox ownership would like to avoid.[/quote']

 

Have they opened their books for you to see?

 

 

they have done nothing but invest in their product? Have they opened their books for you to see? They are making renovations on something that is already paid for. Solid investment. They have probably the most loyal fanbase in the country who are willing to kill someone to pay way more than another fan for a seat, and they go ahead and CUT spending. Does that make you feel good? Do you need to rationalize that the sox really do put money into their product, really? Do you enjoy EEI spam and swallow the punch out of the FO all the time? The truth remains that the sox are making money HAND OVER FIST. And thus far, this offseason, they have shown their loyalty by FREEZING their all time high ticket prices (thanks JH!!!) and then cutting payroll by 50 mil without one impact addition.

 

You see George had a great quote from awhile back. That Carl Pohlad, he could buy me 100X over and he still doesnt invest in his product. From an owner perspective, George is one of the poorest, yet the yankees continually outspend everyone in order to field their team. He is the ultimate example of a guy who is willing to reinvest in the club. Henry? 2 straight yrs of declining payroll while having the hottest ticket in the US. Downright scandalous. If I was a sox fan, I'd be pissed that he's taking my money and then drawing lines in the sand on absolute needs to the team.

 

Yes, the team with the 4th highest payroll in baseball and one of the most expensive player development systems does not invest in the team, and the renovations are already paid for.........

 

If this is the kind of arguments you're gonna be pulling out of your pockets, then arguing with you is a waste of my time.......Good day to you, sir.

[jacksonianmarch]

bowing out so soon. Figures. Dont forget your Kool Aid, its required to get your fan nation bracelet

[Dipre]

bowing out so soon. Figures. Dont forget your Kool Aid' date=' its required to get your fan nation bracelet[/quote']

 

Yes, when in a losing battle and at a loss of credibility, resort to "Kool Aid" jokes, priceless.

 

Oh, and don't forget to polish Steiny's knob.

 

It's required to become a mindless Yankee fan.

[mvp 78]

the yanks got smaller ' date=' the A's closed off the top deck[/quote']

The A's closed off the top deck because they couldn't even sell out playoff games. You can still go to Wednesday afternoon games and pay a $1 to sit in the bleachers. You can basically go to box office the morning of any game get a seat 20 rows behind the dugout. The Yankees and A's downsized for different reasons. The Yankees did it to charge more $$$. The A's did it because it was a waste to have all those empty seats.

[BoSox21]

I know ownership is making money hand over fist but the fact that they don't re-invest it in team payroll isnt necessarily what pisses me off cause quite frankly, the team's free agent track record is far from great but its the poverty cries that John Henry does everytime the Yankees blow up the FA market.

 

If Henry came out with a statement like "the Yankees feel the way to improve their team is to invest heavily in the free agent market, our strategy is to invest in our player development system and improve our team with homegrown talent and it's a strategy that has worked for us"

 

But instead he tries to get the sympathy of the public with the poverty cries and the "we can't keep up with their revenue streams" comments and when so much of your revenue and spending is public knowledge, it makes him look like a bitch and, quite honestly, cheap. He embarasses the Red Sox name and his organization

[a700hitter]

But instead he tries to get the sympathy of the public with the poverty cries and the "we can't keep up with their revenue streams" comments and when so much of your revenue and spending is public knowledge' date=' it makes him look like a bitch and, quite honestly, cheap. He embarasses the Red Sox name and his organization[/quote']It pisses me off. These guys are tremendous marketing people. They have created all sorts of additional revenue streams. The fan base is like printing press for money, and yet they whine. STFU Henry and learn that you have to know how to close a deal, because the Yankees are always looming. They are circling our catch like a bald eagle eyeballing a rabbit. You walk away from the table when negotiating with your number 1 priority and he will be gone when you come looking. You could pull that s*** with JD Drew, because no one else would pay $14 million for 5 years for a guy that misses 30+ games a year with a bad shoulder and bad back. You could pull the crap with Dice K, because you had exclusive negotiating rights. You can't pull that crap with prize catches. We the fans who spend thousands a year to go to go to handful of games don't want to hear you cry. You had this guy at the table in his home in Texas. You should have left the house with a signature... fool!

[riverside sluggers]

Using Fenway for gimicky s*** would be like retiring the Stanley cup but still bringing it to county fairs for chugging competitions. It's should be all or nothing with Fenway. IF they build a new stadium' date=' they should tear Fenway down by Thanksgiving.[/quote']

 

I believe that its centennial would get the Historical Society involved. Id be surprised if it was torn down

[26 to 6]

Yes, when in a losing battle and at a loss of credibility, resort to "Kool Aid" jokes, priceless.

 

Oh, and don't forget to polish Steiny's knob.

 

It's required to become a mindless Yankee fan.

Jacko made the Kool-Aid joke, not you

[Dipre]

Jacko made the Kool-Aid joke' date=' not you [/quote']

 

Offended because you too, polished Steiny's knob?

[ORS]

They could build a 100,000K monstrosity with the upper tier seating requiring that you strap in for the inverted seat view, and they'd still be leagues away from the Yankees financially. The insurmountable obstacle is the ~18M+ more viewers in their viewing region, who all pay for YES with their basic cable package. 18M more subscription fees from the cable providers per month. Cha-ching!

[ORS]

they have done nothing but invest in their product? Have they opened their books for you to see? They are making renovations on something that is already paid for. Solid investment. They have probably the most loyal fanbase in the country who are willing to kill someone to pay way more than another fan for a seat, and they go ahead and CUT spending. Does that make you feel good? Do you need to rationalize that the sox really do put money into their product, really? Do you enjoy EEI spam and swallow the punch out of the FO all the time? The truth remains that the sox are making money HAND OVER FIST. And thus far, this offseason, they have shown their loyalty by FREEZING their all time high ticket prices (thanks JH!!!) and then cutting payroll by 50 mil without one impact addition.

 

You see George had a great quote from awhile back. That Carl Pohlad, he could buy me 100X over and he still doesnt invest in his product. From an owner perspective, George is one of the poorest, yet the yankees continually outspend everyone in order to field their team. He is the ultimate example of a guy who is willing to reinvest in the club. Henry? 2 straight yrs of declining payroll while having the hottest ticket in the US. Downright scandalous. If I was a sox fan, I'd be pissed that he's taking my money and then drawing lines in the sand on absolute needs to the team.

I can picture you comparing presents with the other kids on Christmas afternoon, and when some kid inevitably fessed up to getting 3rd rate gear and not much of it, you'd quip, "Wow, Mommy and Daddy REALLY love you, huh?"

 

Yeah, it's scandalous that his first year of declining payroll resulted in a game 7 of the ALCS with their starting 3B and big game pitcher contributing little to the positive. Scandalous that the biggest portion of the salary coming off the payroll is from a guy who they kept around longer than they really wanted to because of, partly, his adoring fans. It's scandalous that they go into next year with same starters that accounted for the best D3 in baseball last year. If ever there was a case of it being OK to stand pat on the merits of your evaluations, Henry has earned it at this juncture. I may disagree with their evaluations, I may feel they botched the Teixeira thing, but I don't question their loyalty to maintaining competitiveness (ie to the fans).

 

f***ing jerkoff.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

What a bunch of spoiled lazy brats. This topic has been discussed in-depth before and certainly doesn't require a new thread. Has anything dramatically changed with regards to the Red Sox stadium needs/opportunities ? Answer, no it hasn't. All that has happened is the Yankees went out and spent a boat load of money on three players. This is not a news item. The Yankees have money, the Yankees spend money. So we didn't get Tex, big deal.

So you say that this is a money problem. We should build a new stadium so we can compete with the Yankees. Translated, that means we should destroy what we have to be like the Yankees. I'm sorry, I don't want to be like the Yankees, ever. I doubt any Yankee fan would like the Yankees to be like the Red Sox. Come to think of it, maybe they would. The score does stand 2-0 this century.

So let's proceed with this faulty assumption that a new stadium is needed to "compete" with the Yankees. Great, we need a new 50,000 seat stadium. Where are you going to put it ? The three most popular responses were : 1) on the current site, 2) on the parking lots, 3) the suburbs. Looking at option one, not feasible for two reasons. One, you can't build a 50,000 seat stadium in 5 months. Two, there's the problem of destroying a building that is on the National Historic Register.

Then there's that well thought out option of building it on the parking lots. What parking lots ? So I guess that leaves the suburbs. How far out in the "suburbs" ? Of what city ? Certainly not Boston. Do you people not think that feasibility studies have been done ? There is no infra structure in place to support such a project. Maybe there's a reason that the owners have committed to staying and improving Fenway. BTW, spending over # 120 million on improvements is not maintenance ( as implied by Jackson ).

I almost forgot the issue of the 1918 seats. Now there's a deal breaker. Let me see if I have this right. Because your sorry fat ass can't fit into the seats you purchase, the rest of Red Sox Nation should drive to the sticks ( oh, and be like the Yankees ) ? The Red Sox recently demolished the 406 Club and built luxury seating with wait staff. During this off season, they ripped out the red seats and replaced them with wider seats.

Because this thread had nothing new to add the divergence to other unrelated topics and personal assaults was inevitable. Saying the Red Sox cut payroll, with the implication that they are cheap is ridiculous. Tell me at the end of the year what was spent and what was accomplished, then I might listen.

[a700hitter]

What a bunch of spoiled lazy brats. This topic has been discussed in-depth before and certainly doesn't require a new thread. Has anything dramatically changed with regards to the Red Sox stadium needs/opportunities ? Answer, no it hasn't. All that has happened is the Yankees went out and spent a boat load of money on three players. This is not a news item. The Yankees have money, the Yankees spend money. So we didn't get Tex, big deal.

So you say that this is a money problem. We should build a new stadium so we can compete with the Yankees. Translated, that means we should destroy what we have to be like the Yankees. I'm sorry, I don't want to be like the Yankees, ever. I doubt any Yankee fan would like the Yankees to be like the Red Sox. Come to think of it, maybe they would. The score does stand 2-0 this century.

So let's proceed with this faulty assumption that a new stadium is needed to "compete" with the Yankees. Great, we need a new 50,000 seat stadium. Where are you going to put it ? The three most popular responses were : 1) on the current site, 2) on the parking lots, 3) the suburbs. Looking at option one, not feasible for two reasons. One, you can't build a 50,000 seat stadium in 5 months. Two, there's the problem of destroying a building that is on the National Historic Register.

Then there's that well thought out option of building it on the parking lots. What parking lots ? So I guess that leaves the suburbs. How far out in the "suburbs" ? Of what city ? Certainly not Boston. Do you people not think that feasibility studies have been done ? There is no infra structure in place to support such a project. Maybe there's a reason that the owners have committed to staying and improving Fenway. BTW, spending over # 120 million on improvements is not maintenance ( as implied by Jackson ).

I almost forgot the issue of the 1918 seats. Now there's a deal breaker. Let me see if I have this right. Because your sorry fat ass can't fit into the seats you purchase, the rest of Red Sox Nation should drive to the sticks ( oh, and be like the Yankees ) ? The Red Sox recently demolished the 406 Club and built luxury seating with wait staff. During this off season, they ripped out the red seats and replaced them with wider seats.

Because this thread had nothing new to add the divergence to other unrelated topics and personal assaults was inevitable. Saying the Red Sox cut payroll, with the implication that they are cheap is ridiculous. Tell me at the end of the year what was spent and what was accomplished, then I might listen.

I agree 100% with your post, but the FO should read it and take it to heart, so they might refrain from the knee-jerk response that the Yankees are rich and have a new stadium when the Yankees sign a FA.

[26 to 6]

What a bunch of spoiled lazy brats. This topic has been discussed in-depth before and certainly doesn't require a new thread. Has anything dramatically changed with regards to the Red Sox stadium needs/opportunities ? Answer, no it hasn't. All that has happened is the Yankees went out and spent a boat load of money on three players. This is not a news item. The Yankees have money, the Yankees spend money. So we didn't get Tex, big deal.

So you say that this is a money problem. We should build a new stadium so we can compete with the Yankees. Translated, that means we should destroy what we have to be like the Yankees. I'm sorry, I don't want to be like the Yankees, ever. I doubt any Yankee fan would like the Yankees to be like the Red Sox. Come to think of it, maybe they would. The score does stand 2-0 this century.

So let's proceed with this faulty assumption that a new stadium is needed to "compete" with the Yankees. Great, we need a new 50,000 seat stadium. Where are you going to put it ? The three most popular responses were : 1) on the current site, 2) on the parking lots, 3) the suburbs. Looking at option one, not feasible for two reasons. One, you can't build a 50,000 seat stadium in 5 months. Two, there's the problem of destroying a building that is on the National Historic Register.

Then there's that well thought out option of building it on the parking lots. What parking lots ? So I guess that leaves the suburbs. How far out in the "suburbs" ? Of what city ? Certainly not Boston. Do you people not think that feasibility studies have been done ? There is no infra structure in place to support such a project. Maybe there's a reason that the owners have committed to staying and improving Fenway. BTW, spending over # 120 million on improvements is not maintenance ( as implied by Jackson ).

I almost forgot the issue of the 1918 seats. Now there's a deal breaker. Let me see if I have this right. Because your sorry fat ass can't fit into the seats you purchase, the rest of Red Sox Nation should drive to the sticks ( oh, and be like the Yankees ) ? The Red Sox recently demolished the 406 Club and built luxury seating with wait staff. During this off season, they ripped out the red seats and replaced them with wider seats.

Because this thread had nothing new to add the divergence to other unrelated topics and personal assaults was inevitable. Saying the Red Sox cut payroll, with the implication that they are cheap is ridiculous. Tell me at the end of the year what was spent and what was accomplished, then I might listen.

Uh oh, get 'em Cape.

 

I've never seen you respond this way, it's somewhat refreshing, in an unusual sort of way. I agree with you though, even if simply for the fact that the historical significance of Fenway Park is too much to overlook.

[Dipre]

What a bunch of spoiled lazy brats. This topic has been discussed in-depth before and certainly doesn't require a new thread. Has anything dramatically changed with regards to the Red Sox stadium needs/opportunities ? Answer, no it hasn't. All that has happened is the Yankees went out and spent a boat load of money on three players. This is not a news item. The Yankees have money, the Yankees spend money. So we didn't get Tex, big deal.

So you say that this is a money problem. We should build a new stadium so we can compete with the Yankees. Translated, that means we should destroy what we have to be like the Yankees. I'm sorry, I don't want to be like the Yankees, ever. I doubt any Yankee fan would like the Yankees to be like the Red Sox. Come to think of it, maybe they would. The score does stand 2-0 this century.

So let's proceed with this faulty assumption that a new stadium is needed to "compete" with the Yankees. Great, we need a new 50,000 seat stadium. Where are you going to put it ? The three most popular responses were : 1) on the current site, 2) on the parking lots, 3) the suburbs. Looking at option one, not feasible for two reasons. One, you can't build a 50,000 seat stadium in 5 months. Two, there's the problem of destroying a building that is on the National Historic Register.

Then there's that well thought out option of building it on the parking lots. What parking lots ? So I guess that leaves the suburbs. How far out in the "suburbs" ? Of what city ? Certainly not Boston. Do you people not think that feasibility studies have been done ? There is no infra structure in place to support such a project. Maybe there's a reason that the owners have committed to staying and improving Fenway. BTW, spending over # 120 million on improvements is not maintenance ( as implied by Jackson ).

I almost forgot the issue of the 1918 seats. Now there's a deal breaker. Let me see if I have this right. Because your sorry fat ass can't fit into the seats you purchase, the rest of Red Sox Nation should drive to the sticks ( oh, and be like the Yankees ) ? The Red Sox recently demolished the 406 Club and built luxury seating with wait staff. During this off season, they ripped out the red seats and replaced them with wider seats.

Because this thread had nothing new to add the divergence to other unrelated topics and personal assaults was inevitable. Saying the Red Sox cut payroll, with the implication that they are cheap is ridiculous. Tell me at the end of the year what was spent and what was accomplished, then I might listen.

 

Excellent post.

 

I also agree with Bosox21's assessment that the problem is not whether the current strategic model the Sox FO is applying is valid, because 2 WS's in this decade prove it is, it's their cries of poverty every time the Yanks outspend them on a FA, as it has been discussed here ad nauseum, Tex was not a need, he was a luxury, the Yanks landed him, so what?, the Sox are still an extremely competitive ball-club who are two or 3 moves away from securing one of the most balanced and productive rosters in the game, so instead of crying, they should re-affirm their belief that the current system works much better than the spending system and that they have guidelines that they need live by.

[naptownsoxfan]

I think we have hit panic mode. This system we have works and I don't think that getting rid of Fenway makes any sense really... I mean do we want to be the Yankees? Give me a good farm system and some real grinders for ball players any day over high priced big name free agents.

 

I know these are boards for discussion but getting rid of Fenway...thats just sacrilegious.

[BSN07]

I'm not whinning, or being a spoiled lazy brat. I only stated that if fans of the Sox, want the team to spend anywhere near what the Yanks do, it will only happen with a new Stadium.

 

I also stated that if the Yankees can leave Yankee stadium, the Red Sox can leave Fenway.

 

If they stay at Fenway, I have no issues with it at all. But I do get the othersides argumnet about a new facility.

 

And I also don't have a problem with the FO current Strategy either. I will admit the the flashier FA do catch my eyes, I fine with seeing the team developing players rather then bringnig in High priced players. Now should the Sox be a mid level team payroll wise? No. But if they are in the 100M-140M range, it's hard to say there not trying to field a competitive team.