SABATHIA TO JOIN YANKEES

[26 to 6]

I was saying thats how it was set up so far (not including any other potential signings). But yea I had forgotten about Aceves' good debut at the end of the season

I know what you were getting at, I was just pointing out that there's no way we go into the season with that rotation. Yeah Aceves was real good last September, and I love seeing a player wear an unusual number like 91. I hope he sticks with it.

[26 to 6]

Wow' date=' so the Yanks are only guranteed 3 years. The dreaded opt out. I can't believe Cashman gave him this.[/quote']

Could be a blessing.

[BoSox21]

its a blessing if the Yanks have the ability to get out of the contract

[BSN07]

To me this is nothing more then a 3 year deal. If the economy is in any better shape come the 3rd season he will test the market.

 

If he sustains any kind of success over the next couple years, he will easily recieve a new 100M+ contract. And if not, he can just except the 90M+ left on his original deal.

[BSN07]

Could be a blessing.

 

Not for the Yanks. If he is the Ace you guys want, he will test the market, and with the possibility of a better economy may recieve those offers from out West like he wanted. If he is crap, you guys will be stuck with him.

[26 to 6]

As long as we win 1 Championship within the next 3 years, then that's fine by me. I'm not crazy about Sabathia anyway, as you all know.

[TheKilo]

did you not read my post?

 

[BSN07]

As long as we win 1 Championship within the next 3 years' date=' then that's fine by me. I'm not crazy about Sabathia anyway, as you all know.[/quote']

 

The next 3+ seasons will be tough. With Boston hitting it's stride, TB coming along, the division is not the push over it used to be. And that's not even thinking of the other contenders in the AL.

[26 to 6]

The next 3+ seasons will be tough. With Boston hitting it's stride' date=' TB coming along, the division is not the push over it used to be. And that's not even thinking of the other contenders in the AL.[/quote']

Trust me, I'm aware. but that doesn't mean i dont think we'll compete. I know it's not going to be the cakewalk it's been in the past though.

 

did you not read my post?

Which one are you referring to?

[TheKilo]

I know what you were getting at' date=' I was just pointing out that there's no way we go into the season with that rotation. Yeah Aceves was real good last September, and I love seeing a player wear an unusual number like 91. I hope he sticks with it.[/quote']

 

IMO this would actually be best case scenario for the Yankees.

[TheKilo]

 

Which one are you referring to?

 

BSN07...I linked to that Yahoo article he just quoted like three posts prior.

[26 to 6]

IMO this would actually be best case scenario for the Yankees.

What, having Aceves in the rotation? I wouldn't be disappointed with either him or Hughes rounding out the rotation, but if thats the case the offseason has to be considered a failure. That means we added another starter and failed to bring back Andy, or the other way around. As much as I love Hughes and want to see him excel in our rotation, he just doesn't slot in to start the year. I think he would be a good 7th or 8th inning option until someone in the rotation goes down with Aceves serving as the long man. Unless they want to start Joba out in the pen to control his innings and throw Hughes in the 5th spot, and then bring Joba along at some point during the season. Despite what they say, you never know what the Yankees are gonna do with Joba.

 

BSN07...I linked to that Yahoo article he just quoted like three posts prior.

My mistake i thought you were talking to me.

[ORS]

Rician blast...Jim Rice was my farite player when I was growing up. I remember watching a game and he ripped on off the back wall in CF and the announcer referred to it as " a Rician blast" this the name.

 

Guess I hit a nerve with BOY, eh? Truth hurts, I guess.

Ahh, it's the prounounciation of the "i" that did me in. I didn't read it as R-eye-cian, but instead R-eee-cian, that and the "blast" made me think Rico.

[Gom]

Ok...I'm here for some insight on this.

 

1) The Yankees are still behind last year's pace. For one season only, I consider CC and Moose a wash. That still leaves us with one starting pitchers, two injured pitchers in Wang and Chamberlain, and two gaping holes in the rotation. Two more pitchers are going to be looked at, with at least one more being signed.

 

2) We still have a net loss offensively. Giambi and Abreu are gone, being replaced in production by Swisher. Don't be surprised to see Giambi come back if ball player salaries really come down. Giambi on a 1-2 year deal at 8 million per? Don't be too surprised if you see this, or rather, that AAV.

 

3) CC's post-season success means nothing. Look at Beckett this year. Post-season success or clutch, is a myth that's been exposed time and time again. Except in Arod's case.

 

4) The opt-out is a good thing for both sides. The Yankees are on the hook for 3 years, 69 million. I can take that a lot easier than 7 years 160 mil. If Sabathia likes NY, he stays. If not, fine. Hopefully, the Yankees will have developed a few good starters by then. Hopefully. I'm still holding out for Jessica Alba as my girlfriend. I think that's just as likely with Cashman running the team.

 

5. I still hate Cashman, but he did a great job in being aggressive, and pushing the issue. Three meetings in three days, flying out to meet him, etc. I tip my hat to him on this one, and the Swisher deal. I still think not offering Abreu arbitration was a mistake, but the jury is still out on that one.

 

So relax everyone, from both sides. All this has done so far is tread water with last year's pitching staff. We replace Mussina with CC. Now we have to replace Pettitte, and fill one more hole.

[diony]

Even with the opt out clause, they're still getting 3 of CCs prime years. Which is pretty good.

 

I read somewhere that if he opts out he lefts $92 million on the table (69 for the first 3 years). I don't know how they market will evolve. But considering his high inning workload and weight concerns by the time he's 31-32 he'll really have to think about it before opting out.

 

And I don't know what you guys talking about, Aceves sucked.

[26 to 6]

What do you mean we have to replace Pettitte? I think he still comes back. We add either Sheets or Burnett and we have a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Joba, Sheets/Burnett, Andy. Pretty solid, if healthy.

 

And I don't know what you guys talking about, Aceves sucked.

Were you watching the same pitchier? In 6 games (30 IP) he gave up 25 Hits, 8 Runs (all earned), 10 BB, 16 Ks, with an ERA of 2.40. That sucks? You're a fool.

[jacksonianmarch]

Aceves was very good and he gained a lot of velocity as the yr went on. He'll be in AAA with Hughes and Kennedy and might be the first callup at the first sign of trouble

[TheKilo]

What, having Aceves in the rotation? I wouldn't be disappointed with either him or Hughes rounding out the rotation, but if thats the case the offseason has to be considered a failure. That means we added another starter and failed to bring back Andy, or the other way around. As much as I love Hughes and want to see him excel in our rotation, he just doesn't slot in to start the year. I think he would be a good 7th or 8th inning option until someone in the rotation goes down with Aceves serving as the long man. Unless they want to start Joba out in the pen to control his innings and throw Hughes in the 5th spot, and then bring Joba along at some point during the season. Despite what they say, you never know what the Yankees are gonna do with Joba.

 

 

 

Misquoted, I was referring to when you said the yanks win one, and then CC opts out.

[26 to 6]

lol my bad, again

[ORS]

4) The opt-out is a good thing for both sides. The Yankees are on the hook for 3 years' date=' 69 million. I can take that a lot easier than 7 years 160 mil. If Sabathia likes NY, he stays. If not, fine. Hopefully, the Yankees will have developed a few good starters by then. Hopefully. I'm still holding out for Jessica Alba as my girlfriend. I think that's just as likely with Cashman running the team.[/quote']

There's really no good side to the option clause from the Yankees perspective. If he's good enough to earn the coin they signed him for, then they either lose him or he becomes more expensive. If he's not good enough for his contract, then they are stuck with 4 more years of him. Saying he'll stay if he likes NY ignores this completely. It won't have anything to do with liking anything.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree ORS. That being said, 3 yrs of CC is better than none. And I have a hard time thinking that he's gonna opt out. Granted, in 3 yrs the economy should be better, but I have a hard time thinking that as a 31 yr old, he'll get more than 23 mil a yr.

[diony]

Were you watching the same pitchier? In 6 games (30 IP) he gave up 25 Hits, 8 Runs (all earned), 10 BB, 16 Ks, with an ERA of 2.40. That sucks? You're a fool.

 

Wow nice job getting those stats. But they don't mean anything really. That's a really small sample size anyway.

 

You forgot these:

 

BABIP: .233 (LUCK)

K/9: 4.80

BB/9: 3.00

HR/9: 1.20

FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching): 4.80 ---> His FIP doubles his ERA. The guy was lucky as hell.

 

Your stats make him look as an ace. But his peripherals prove he sucked. Is like when Rasner had that good month of May, with peripherals not so different from these. You're the fool, get your facts straight.

[BSN07]

Wow nice job getting those stats. But they don't mean anything really. That's a really small sample size anyway.

 

You forgot these:

 

BABIP: .233 (LUCK)

K/9: 4.80

BB/9: 3.00

HR/9: 1.20

FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching): 4.80 ---> His FIP doubles his ERA. The guy was lucky as hell.

 

Your stats make him look as an ace. But his peripherals prove he sucked. Is like when Rasner had that good month of May, with peripherals not so different from these. You're the fool, get your facts straight.

 

 

Man don't make an argument while using "Luck" as legit reason.

 

If this is the s*** your gonna provide for our reading pleasure, then maybe this site is more for your type of thinking/posting,

 

http://www.dodgerblues.com/

[diony]

Man don't make an argument while using "Luck" as legit reason.

 

If this is the s*** your gonna provide for our reading pleasure, then maybe this site is more for your type of thinking/posting,

 

http://www.dodgerblues.com/

 

Huh? What s***? Your s***** attempt to make fun of me off by using a link? Oh come on, you have to be better than that.

 

So I post some peripherals, and you call my post s***? Care to elaborate?

[ORS]

I agree ORS. That being said' date=' 3 yrs of CC is better than none. And I have a hard time thinking that he's gonna opt out. Granted, in 3 yrs the economy should be better, but I have a hard time thinking that as a 31 yr old, he'll get more than 23 mil a yr.[/quote']

You said the same thing about ARod.

[jacksonianmarch]

So the biggest fish on the market lands in NY. Fitting, and awesome. Lets break down CC for awhile.

 

1. He's 28. It is reasonable to assume that the 7 yrs will take him through his prime and likely into the beginning of a decline phase.

 

2. His size. Both a boon and a potential curse. He's a power pitcher, and we all know that small power pitchers burn out faster than the big ones. So when he throws, he isnt likely to lose the mid to high 90s heat as say a Pedro Martinez did. But also, he is SO big that the lower body joints will give him trouble as he ages. The back, the hips, the knees. So it is both a boon and a curse.

 

3. His durability. CC entered the bigs as a 20 yr old and threw 180IP. In his 8MLB seasons, Sabathia has started less than 30 times only once (28 in 2006). He has surpassed 180IP every yr of his big league career. He's surpassed 190IP in 6 of his 8 yrs and has surpassed 200IP in 3 of his seasons. The man takes the mound.

 

4. His performance. One of the things that hasnt gotten much pub is how improved CC is over his past 4 seasons. He started his career as a prototypical power pitching prospect. High K, high BB then transformed into more of a contact pitcher, then found his power again. He really started to turn it on in 2005. He saw his BB total drop, his K/9 get above 7 again and his WHIP get below 1.3 for the first time in his career. He also saw a sharp rise in his GB/AO from 0.8-1.3. Since that time, Sabathia hasnt looked back. His K/9IP since 2005 are...7.37-8.04-7.81-8.93. All consistently in a power pitcher range. His K/BB have risen sharply since 2005. 2.60-3.91-5.65-4.25. And he has seen his OPS against drop as well. 2004 on: .736-.682-.654-.682-.622. All of this points towards CC actually getting BETTER. And he is entering the prime of his career.

 

The point of the matter is, we got a guy who is one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball who is the most durable pitcher in baseball at a young age and while his numbers are getting better. We havent made an acquisition like this since we signed Catfish Hunter at the age of 29. Previously, we were all about getting the wily veteran and going yr by yr. Now we have a guy in his prime who is at the top of his game and rising for a huge portion of his career. This is something we havent seen in 30 yrs.

[TheKilo]

I don't think anyone will dispute the player CC Sabathia is.

 

But to praise the Yankees for signing him in this manner is foolish. They outbid their closest competitor by $45-$60 million dollars (unless you count themselves) and they gave CC a chance to opt out of his contract on top of it.

 

They literally bent over backwards for this guy. There is tremendous risk with the way this contract is structured.

 

The opt-out clause is very interesting because in my opinion, three things can happen:

 

a. CC is dominant for the first three seasons of the contract, opts out.

b. CC is mediocre for the first three seasons of the contract, remains in NYY.

c. CC is terrible/injured for the first three seasons of the contract, remains in NYY.

 

The best case scenario for the Yankees is clearly option (a), where he earns his $23 million the first three years. But when he leaves, who will replace him? What does the FA class for pitchers look like in 2011? Will the young Yankee arms stay healthy and develop like they hope?

 

Option ( involves Sabathia being a mediocre pitcher for the first three years, then heading into the territory of the contract that involves the most risk for him healthwise. Like Jacko said, his knees, back, and hips will start to deteriorate at this point. Big Man Syndrome. If CC stays put because he knows he can't get more than $23 million elsewhere, the Yankees are looking at a huge albatross for those four seasons.

 

Option © is the worst case scenario where his albatross phase manifests itself very early. The Yankees are then stuck with a Pavano-like contract, only this is the richest for any pitcher in the history of the game.

 

It's an odd situation where, from the perspective of the Yankees, the best thing CC can do is be great for three years and then leave them with no contingency plan after 2011.

[BSN07]

Huh? What s***? Your s***** attempt to make fun of me off by using a link? Oh come on, you have to be better than that.

 

So I post some peripherals, and you call my post s***? Care to elaborate?

 

I merely suggested the link might be better suited for your opinion/ reasoning.

 

 

And when you start chalking things up to luck as part of your argument, you get the s*** stamp straight away.

[TheKilo]

He has a point, although I think BABIP judges luck much better for a hitter than a pitcher.

[Cocos Disciples]

As for the Aceves/5 spot argument, it's probably moot. The Yankees had a goal of getting 2 starters and I still think they are intent on this.