Interesting rumblings

[jacksonianmarch]

As you all know, the media is not very dumb. They get to sit down with the GMs and the players and managers and have off the record talk, so they know what is gonna go down. Especially in Boston, where you can tell which way the team will go about 6 months in advance. In NY, it is similar in some respects, in that a paper will start talking up a player a few weeks prior to that player's acquisition to muddy the waters a little bit. But a couple things I have noticed lately.

 

1. The papers are all saying that CC will land in California. Even though CC has said to reporters that he would love to play anywhere and refutes the idea he is going back to Cali. I even saw it today in the newest Post article. http://www.nypost.com/seven/10072008/sports/moresports/a_j__decision_coming_asap_132464.htm

 

This tells me that CC is not someone we are going to flock to. I guess Cash and his friends dont like the idea of a massive lefty throwing cheese and 200+IP every yr. Whatever it is, I am getting the vibe that we'll kick the tires and nothing more.

 

2. The national media has been showering Manny Ramirez in love over the past two months since he left the fishbowl that is Boston. Manny, a polarizing figure for Yankee fans, has been anything but in the NY media. Nothing, mum. This makes me think we might be making a play. The Post would be reminding all of us about his antics, his long hair and how bad of a teammate he was if we were gonna pass. But the silence is deafening if you know what I mean.

 

3. I have seen multiple articles on just how good Lowe and AJ Burnett are. Forgetting the fact that Lowe is gonna be 35 and Burnett needed his ridiculous finish to get his numbers back to respectability. I think these two are going to be options 1 and 1a for our offseason, mostly because they will be shorter term deals than CC with less money.

 

4. I just saw the first article about Tex today. While we havent seen the articles breaking down his flaws (I dont think he has any), but we havent seen the ga-ga articles about how he is the second coming of Lou Gehrig either. I am skeptical about our ability to sign him, but the media isnt really ruling it out like they are with CC.

 

 

But the Manny thing is what i wanted to focus on. With such a polarizing figure and with no NY team in sight for the time being, I would have assumed we'd be reading about how the yankees dont need a malcontent like Manny and how he quit and how he is a bad LFer etc, etc, etc. But with the media not really putting much into it, it leaves us to speculate and watch as he rifles through NL pitching on his way, likely, to the world series. I think this shows us more than anything else. And if, notice it is a big if, we do sign or go hard after Manny, then that indicates a few things....

 

1. Abreu will be history. Gone, long gone. Getting Manny locks up one of the 3 spots that Abreu could occupy (LF, RF, DH). Matsui isnt going anywhere, he is untradeable, so he locks up another. Nady being under contract, younger and seemingly improving would lock up the last.

 

2. This would also mean that Damon will be aggressively shopped. Damon had a resurgence this yr, and a ton of teams would love to have a leadoff guy who can do what Damon did for us, this yr. .303/.375/.461 with 17HR 71RBI and 29SB. Being in the final yr of his deal at not big coin, especially if he mans the leadoff spot, and the yankees could get something significant for him.

 

Those are my theories on 10/7. We'll see how they play out

[riverside sluggers]

Concerning Manny, Boras through his media outlets said he is seeking a deal of at least 5 years/$85 million (through age 41 season)

[ARod2212]

I think we may have a Manny-Damon-Nady outfield next year. Also known as the worst defensive outfield, ever.

[Gom]

I realize these aren't your words [so I can't rip you for them], but I'll chime in.

 

As you all know, the media is not very dumb. They get to sit down with the GMs and the players and managers and have off the record talk, so they know what is gonna go down. Especially in Boston, where you can tell which way the team will go about 6 months in advance. In NY, it is similar in some respects, in that a paper will start talking up a player a few weeks prior to that player's acquisition to muddy the waters a little bit. But a couple things I have noticed lately.

 

1. The papers are all saying that CC will land in California. Even though CC has said to reporters that he would love to play anywhere and refutes the idea he is going back to Cali. I even saw it today in the newest Post article. http://www.nypost.com/seven/10072008/sports/moresports/a_j__decision_coming_asap_132464.htm

 

This tells me that CC is not someone we are going to flock to. I guess Cash and his friends dont like the idea of a massive lefty throwing cheese and 200+IP every yr. Whatever it is, I am getting the vibe that we'll kick the tires and nothing more.

/quote]

It depends on what he wants. Basically, the Yankees are going to offer $3 million more a year. It's a choice, but he will be hard pressed by the union not to take less, and he's playing the game right. He's saying everywhere is open, and the Yankees are saying that they believe that he's going to go to Cali. In other words, everyone is saying what they should say. My guess is that it will come down to the Dodgers/Angels and the Yankees. It's just a question of of whether he wants sun and fun or $3 million a year.

2. The national media has been showering Manny Ramirez in love over the past two months since he left the fishbowl that is Boston. Manny, a polarizing figure for Yankee fans, has been anything but in the NY media. Nothing, mum. This makes me think we might be making a play. The Post would be reminding all of us about his antics, his long hair and how bad of a teammate he was if we were gonna pass. But the silence is deafening if you know what I mean.

Manny was always in play. Truth be told, he's as good a LF as we have defensively [Damon is a little better, but not much]. Putting Manny behind Arod gives you the best 1-2 bunch in baseball and to tell you the truth, considering what we'd have to pay for Abreu [16 million in arbitration] I'd rather have Manny.

3. I have seen multiple articles on just how good Lowe and AJ Burnett are. Forgetting the fact that Lowe is gonna be 35 and Burnett needed his ridiculous finish to get his numbers back to respectability. I think these two are going to be options 1 and 1a for our offseason, mostly because they will be shorter term deals than CC with less money.

Another good point. Lowe would be a huge mistake IMO, but Burnett is the prize for both the Yankees and Sox. My guess is that the market will be crazy for Burnett, not so for CC, since CC has kind of taking himself out of the running. I expect Burnett to end up in pinstripes...we have more money than the Red Sox, and he has closer ties to the Yankee players.

4. I just saw the first article about Tex today. While we havent seen the articles breaking down his flaws (I dont think he has any), but we havent seen the ga-ga articles about how he is the second coming of Lou Gehrig either. I am skeptical about our ability to sign him, but the media isnt really ruling it out like they are with CC.

You can't rule out anyone when Boras is the agent. Tex is a solid player who you can put in the lineup for 5 years and forget about him. Seeing how good a glove both he and Youkilis were in this series made me realize that Giambi is gone for good.

But the Manny thing is what i wanted to focus on. With such a polarizing figure and with no NY team in sight for the time being, I would have assumed we'd be reading about how the yankees dont need a malcontent like Manny and how he quit and how he is a bad LFer etc, etc, etc. But with the media not really putting much into it, it leaves us to speculate and watch as he rifles through NL pitching on his way, likely, to the world series. I think this shows us more than anything else. And if, notice it is a big if, we do sign or go hard after Manny, then that indicates a few things....

 

1. Abreu will be history. Gone, long gone. Getting Manny locks up one of the 3 spots that Abreu could occupy (LF, RF, DH). Matsui isnt going anywhere, he is untradeable, so he locks up another. Nady being under contract, younger and seemingly improving would lock up the last.

I disagree with Nady getting better. He's a .790-.800 OPS hitter, that's his peak. With the exception of this stint this year in Pittsburgh, that's all he's done. Abreu will probably head over to Shea or end up with the Braves. You're right about Matsui.

2. This would also mean that Damon will be aggressively shopped. Damon had a resurgence this yr, and a ton of teams would love to have a leadoff guy who can do what Damon did for us, this yr. .303/.375/.461 with 17HR 71RBI and 29SB. Being in the final yr of his deal at not big coin, especially if he mans the leadoff spot, and the yankees could get something significant for him.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Damon is absolutely staying. He is much more valuable to the Yankees than anyone else, and his salary is too high to move. To move Damon, you'd have to eat salary, and what would be the point? If you're right about Manny, the Yankees would have Manny, Damon, Matsui and Nady in the OF, with Gardner as the rotating OF for defensive purposes. One of those gets the day off as DH pretty much everyday, with Nady getting the bulk of the playing time in the field due to his age.

Those are my theories on 10/7. We'll see how they play out

I agree with you when I say it should be interesting. It would be more enjoyable if we didn't have a clown who wanted to "change the story". Maybe if he was competent, he wouldn't have to worry what the media was going to write about him.

 

Jacko, on a side note....I remember you stating that if we got CC and got to keep our prospects, it would be better than getting Johan and giving up the prospects. Don't you think it's disturbing that it is now looking like we are going to lose both?

[Cocos Disciples]

As you all know' date=' the media is not very dumb. [/quote']

 

Well...some are pretty damn stupid.

[MANNYHOF24]

Why would Manny, who hated the media pressure in Boston go to New York? He is going to get the money anywhere he goes.

[Gom]

Why would Manny' date=' who hated the media pressure in Boston go to New York? He is going to get the money anywhere he goes.[/quote']

 

Because New York is not like Boston. Manny will get a crazy amount of love in NY.

[Cocos Disciples]

Until he GIDP's in a big spot. Then the boo birds fly.

[redsoxrules]

Because New York is not like Boston. Manny will get a crazy amount of love in NY.

 

yeah ok Arod gets the boo's everytime he comes up short in a big situation

it would be no different for Manny

[26 to 6]

Why would Manny' date=' who hated the media pressure in Boston go to New York? He is going to get the money anywhere he goes.[/quote']

Consider the fact that he grew up a stone's throw away from the Stadium.

 

I disagree with Nady getting better. He's a .790-.800 OPS hitter, that's his peak. With the exception of this stint this year in Pittsburgh, that's all he's done. Abreu will probably head over to Shea or end up with the Braves. You're right about Matsui.

Shea won't even be standing

[ACL BoSox]

Because New York is not like Boston. Manny will get a crazy amount of love in NY.

 

1. Red Sox fans loved him, it was management that didn't get along with him. The fans didn't get angry until he decided to shutdown and roll around on the field.

 

2. No fans are more fickel than Yankee fans. Two years ago you wanted Arod gone, then you wanted to resign him, now you hate him again. Loyalty? Yankee fans are a joke when it comes to loyalty.

 

3. Manny won't gel with the corporate culture that is the New York Yankees.

[Mr Crunchy]

manny is going to the mets.

omar fuentes gonzales minaya will eat mannys grandmother to get him in flushing meadows.

manny will again bring back the washington heights crowd who still loves pedro inspite of him stealing 50M from these same mets...

he will make their dim,homosexual based fans forget about the 2 titanic like collapses over the last 2 seasons quickly but he still dont solve their putrid bullpen or their weak starters.

[yeszir]

The media ARE not very dumb. ARE

[Cocos Disciples]

Wouldn't it be "is", since he's clumping all of the media into one singular noun?

[Gom]

Yankee fans, in case you guys haven't noticed, like it when you come up big in the post-season. That's why players like O'Neill, Tino, Jeter, Bernie, Jeter, Pettitte are loved. Hell, Brosius still can't pay for a drink in New York. Bucky Dent is still the 3rd most famous shortstop in Yankee history, after Jeter and Rizzuto. All because of one swing.

 

Arod hasn't done it in the post-season. Until he does, he'll get booed. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but that's the way it goes here.

 

I may be looking at winning the lottery first, but if Arod hits a series winning homer against Papelbon, trust me...they won't boo him again for a very long time.

[riverside sluggers]

Because New York is not like Boston. Manny will get a crazy amount of love in NY.

 

not by the media when he eventually has his manny being manny moments. Just ask A-Rod about how many Newsday covers have there been of him such as "A-Dog", or how he went into slumps (or just GIDPs, errors) thus quickly he was booed by the Yankee faithful

[riverside sluggers]

Mo Vaughn sucked ass in the postseason, but I didnt boo him

[ACL BoSox]

Yankee fans, in case you guys haven't noticed, like it when you come up big in the post-season. That's why players like O'Neill, Tino, Jeter, Bernie, Jeter, Pettitte are loved. Hell, Brosius still can't pay for a drink in New York. Bucky Dent is still the 3rd most famous shortstop in Yankee history, after Jeter and Rizzuto. All because of one swing.

 

Arod hasn't done it in the post-season. Until he does, he'll get booed. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but that's the way it goes here.

 

I may be looking at winning the lottery first, but if Arod hits a series winning homer against Papelbon, trust me...they won't boo him again for a very long time.

 

And this is why you think Yankee fans will love him? What if he doesn't have a big postseason.

 

If that's your standard, pretty much your entire roster should be booed.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Wouldn't it be "is"' date=' since he's clumping all of the media into one singular noun?[/quote']

 

No. Media is plural, much like the word 'data' is. People misuse that one all of the time too.

[ORS]

Contemporary usage accepts media as a collective singular.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

contemporary usage is just a polite way of saying 'bastardized by americans'

[Mr Crunchy]

in contemporary english what jives better

f*** thou

or

f*** thee?

 

this has always been a question that i have never been able to ask for obvious reasons.

[Gom]

And this is why you think Yankee fans will love him? What if he doesn't have a big postseason.

 

If that's your standard, pretty much your entire roster should be booed.

He would be booed if he didn't come up big. The Yankee fans, from what I see, won't boo players unless they NEVER succeed in the post-season. Nothing is absolute, but that's why for the most part, you don't see the Yankee core booed. That's why they'd boo Arod, or Cano before they'd boo a Jeter or a Pettitte. Just the way it is here.

 

Think about it. Jeter absolutely killed the Yankees in 2007 against the Guardians, hitting into 473 double plays in the 4 game series, but nobody booed him. Arod, who even hit a homer and hit a respectable .260+, got booed.

[Mr Crunchy]

paul byrd k'd arod on 3 85mph belt high fastballs with the bases loaded and nobody out in game 4 i believe...arod was caught looking.

[TheKilo]

Isn't the singular noun of media "medium"?

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Isn't the singular noun of media "medium"?

 

yes, just like the singular noun of data is datum. they have similar latin roots.

[ACL BoSox]

He would be booed if he didn't come up big. The Yankee fans, from what I see, won't boo players unless they NEVER succeed in the post-season. Nothing is absolute, but that's why for the most part, you don't see the Yankee core booed. That's why they'd boo Arod, or Cano before they'd boo a Jeter or a Pettitte. Just the way it is here.

 

Think about it. Jeter absolutely killed the Yankees in 2007 against the Guardians, hitting into 473 double plays in the 4 game series, but nobody booed him. Arod, who even hit a homer and hit a respectable .260+, got booed.

 

I still don't see how this translates into Manny being embraced by the NY media. This has disaster written all over it.

[Dojji]

in contemporary english what jives better

f*** thou

or

f*** thee?

 

this has always been a question that i have never been able to ask for obvious reasons.

 

 

Actually, even in archaic English which still embraced Thee and Thou, when addressing someone either formally or confrontationally, "you" was still the preferred form. "thee" and "thou" were informal and used mostly with family members and close friends.

 

So ironically, the correct phrase even in 16th century English would still be f*** You.

[ARod2212]

I like the dueling English language, Manny debate going on here. Pretty funny.

 

Manny is an elite talent, who is immune to pressure. That is the type of person I want in the lineup. If he hits, it'll take some weight off A-Rod's shoulders. I am all for it.

 

And I think he's a douchebag, for the record.

[Mr Crunchy]

thank you doji

its questions like these that keep my up late at night.