Joba leaves with shoulder pain

[Mr Crunchy]

9 out of 10 ballplayers who end up in andrews office get cut

[BoSox21]

what a joba by joba

[Optimist]

And it's official...

 

And (with about 90% certainty, I'd say) so marks the end of the Yankees season. Between a back 3 of Ponson, Giese, and god knows who and a bullpen with absolutely no guts (as evident by the last few games) a second half push seems incredibly unlikely.

[jacksonianmarch]

9 out of 10 ballplayers who end up in andrews office get cut

 

he is actually known for his conservative therapy, so that is not necessarily true.

 

This is a bittersweet diagnosis. There isnt an obvious tear there, which is great. But in the setting of swelling, a small tear can be missed. To be honest with you, I dont have him start a throwing program in a week. I have the kid shut it down for the season. He successfully made the transition to the rotation and even though his innings will be down, the questions about his effectiveness in the rotation can officially be squashed. Next yr, I start him in the rotation and do what the Tigers did with Verlander and skip starts throughout the season.

[26 to 6]

If he is somehow able to start throwing before season's end, do you think at all possible he comes out of the pen just for the end of the season? I dont think it's practical to have him start and put all of that stress on his arm that goes along with those innings, but if it's safe and he can help, I think it may be worth it to throw him back into relief. Considering he doesn't need surgery, of course.

[Dojji]

If he is somehow able to start throwing before season's end' date=' do you think at all possible he comes out of the pen just for the end of the season? I dont think it's practical to have him start and put all of that stress on his arm that goes along with those innings, but if it's safe and he can help, I think it may be worth it to throw him back into relief. Considering he doesn't need surgery, of course.[/quote']

 

It's possible, but the stresses of relieving aren't that much less than those of a starter -- what you save on is not overloading an arm as much in any one outing. Pitching at the ML level still puts a lot of stress on an arm even if "just" in relief.

[Gom]

he is actually known for his conservative therapy, so that is not necessarily true.

 

This is a bittersweet diagnosis. There isnt an obvious tear there, which is great. But in the setting of swelling, a small tear can be missed. To be honest with you, I dont have him start a throwing program in a week. I have the kid shut it down for the season. He successfully made the transition to the rotation and even though his innings will be down, the questions about his effectiveness in the rotation can officially be squashed. Next yr, I start him in the rotation and do what the Tigers did with Verlander and skip starts throughout the season.

Pitch the kid. f*** it. We have a season to win. Enough of this babying s***. Play the game. Skip a start or two, then throw him back in there.

[Cocos Disciples]

Pitch the kid. f*** it. We have a season to win. Enough of this babying s***. Play the game. Skip a start or two' date=' then throw him back in there.[/quote']

 

Awesome idea.

[a700hitter]

Pitch the kid. f*** it. We have a season to win. Enough of this babying s***. Play the game. Skip a start or two' date=' then throw him back in there.[/quote']I'm with you. I can't stomach how they baby this pitchers today. He threw 89 innings and he is a little stiff. I remember when most starters threw 250 innings a year, and the really good guys approached or exceeded 300 innings. In each of the three years when he was 40 to 42 years of age, Warren Spahn average over 260 innings. That workload really shortened his career. He only pitched until he was 44. Of course he did pitch for 21 years, and he never got an MRI. I am pretty sure that his arm ached after a few of his 382 complete games. The 16 inning complete game at age 42 against the Giants and Juan Marichal (who also pitched 16 innings) must have hurt especially since he lost 1-0 on a Willie Mays Home run. Today people ooh and ahhh when a big lug like Joba goes 6 innings. These pampered pansies make me sick.

[Gom]

Thank you. I love the arbitrary 100 pitch count as well. This Larussaism of the game is pathetic.

[ARod2212]

Thank you. I love the arbitrary 100 pitch count as well. This Larussaism of the game is pathetic.

Throw all your starters 8 or 9 innings every time out and see where you end up. You might win 50 games if you are lucky. There's a reason things are the way they are.

 

If Joba is healthy, pitch him. Don't f*** up the kid's arm if he's not. That would be beyond stupid. I don't want a Mark Prior.

[ARod2212]

I'm with you. I can't stomach how they baby this pitchers today. He threw 89 innings and he is a little stiff. I remember when most starters threw 250 innings a year' date=' and the really good guys approached or exceeded 300 innings. In each of the three years when he was 40 to 42 years of age, Warren Spahn average over 260 innings. That workload really shortened his career. He only pitched until he was 44. Of course he did pitch for 21 years, and he never got an MRI. I am pretty sure that his arm ached after a few of his 382 complete games. The 16 inning complete game at age 42 against the Giants and Juan Marichal (who also pitched 16 innings) must have hurt especially since he lost 1-0 on a Willie Mays Home run. Today people ooh and ahhh when a big lug like Joba goes 6 innings. These pampered pansies make me sick.[/quote']

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN196307020.shtml

 

Box Score from the game you referenced. Check out that offensive powerhouse Marichal faced. Back then, pitchers did not throw 100% all the time because they didn't have to. They retired the #7 hitter with the .469 OPS with their warmup stuff.

 

Hitters weren't as good back then. Pitchers had it easier.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pitch the kid. f*** it. We have a season to win. Enough of this babying s***. Play the game. Skip a start or two' date=' then throw him back in there.[/quote']

 

So, the kid who's arm this franchise will ride into the next decade is expendable too? Seriously, you are an idiot. Gom, this season is over unless we get better than replacement level performance from our replacements. Even with Joba the season looks grim. Without Joba, this season is done.

 

BTW, you shouldnt have to see Rasner throw for a couple weeks. Rumor has it that he hits the DL for Kennedy. Rasner has blister trouble

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm with you. I can't stomach how they baby this pitchers today. He threw 89 innings and he is a little stiff. I remember when most starters threw 250 innings a year' date=' and the really good guys approached or exceeded 300 innings. In each of the three years when he was 40 to 42 years of age, Warren Spahn average over 260 innings. That workload really shortened his career. He only pitched until he was 44. Of course he did pitch for 21 years, and he never got an MRI. I am pretty sure that his arm ached after a few of his 382 complete games. The 16 inning complete game at age 42 against the Giants and Juan Marichal (who also pitched 16 innings) must have hurt especially since he lost 1-0 on a Willie Mays Home run. Today people ooh and ahhh when a big lug like Joba goes 6 innings. These pampered pansies make me sick.[/quote']

 

a700, the majority of top talents blew out their arms by the time those guys reached the bigs. It just wasnt very highly publicized. A very select few are able to shoulder a load of 200+ IP.

[a700hitter]

a700' date=' the majority of top talents blew out their arms by the time those guys reached the bigs. It just wasnt very highly publicized. A very select few are able to shoulder a load of 200+ IP.[/quote']Survival of the fittest. IOn the long run it would save teams money if some top talents blew out their arms in AA, rather than coddling them like new born infants and having them blow their arms out at the major league level. Also, if pitchers who made it to the majors were able to shoulder more innings in the minors, they'd be able to go deeper into games in the majors. It is ridiculous that a quality start is now 6 innings 3 runs. If you could on average extend your starters, on average, one more inning there would be tremendously less emphasis on bullpens. You'd probably be able to eliminate the need for two bullpen pitchers. Right now the market for the garbage middle relief is sky high. If they were to condition the starters to go longer at earlier ages, IMO the owners would save money in the long run and the quality of pitching would improve around the league.

[Gom]

So, the kid who's arm this franchise will ride into the next decade is expendable too? Seriously, you are an idiot. Gom, this season is over unless we get better than replacement level performance from our replacements. Even with Joba the season looks grim. Without Joba, this season is done.

 

BTW, you shouldnt have to see Rasner throw for a couple weeks. Rumor has it that he hits the DL for Kennedy. Rasner has blister trouble

My point is that we baby players too much, especially pitchers. There is a difference between injury and pain. If it's in the muscle, it's pain. If it's a ligament, it's injury. Stop masturbating over young boys Jacko. If we listened to you, every player the Yankees bring up has a one way ticket to Cooperstown. I'm not saying run him into the ground.

 

Someone explain to me how Roy Halliday can do what he does, and no other SP in baseball can? It's ********. You know starting pitchers are starting pitchers, and relievers are relievers? It's because overall, starting pitchers are your best pitchers. So shouldn't they stay on the field longer?

 

We baby players too much. Also, Jacko, I don't like the Yankees chances so much this year. However, we're 3 1/2 games out of the wild card, and the team that leads it just traded one of their two best hitters and the other one's injury may be a lingering one. It really is anyone's wild card. It's the first week of August.

[Dojji]

So, the kid who's arm this franchise will ride into the next decade is expendable too? Seriously, you are an idiot. Gom, this season is over unless we get better than replacement level performance from our replacements. Even with Joba the season looks grim. Without Joba, this season is done.

 

BTW, you shouldnt have to see Rasner throw for a couple weeks. Rumor has it that he hits the DL for Kennedy. Rasner has blister trouble

 

Aww man, STOP IT! I hate feeling sorry for the Yankees!

[Dojji]

My point is that we baby players too much, especially pitchers. There is a difference between injury and pain. If it's in the muscle, it's pain. If it's a ligament, it's injury. Stop masturbating over young boys Jacko. If we listened to you, every player the Yankees bring up has a one way ticket to Cooperstown. I'm not saying run him into the ground.

 

Someone explain to me how Roy Halliday can do what he does, and no other SP in baseball can? It's ********. You know starting pitchers are starting pitchers, and relievers are relievers? It's because overall, starting pitchers are your best pitchers. So shouldn't they stay on the field longer?

 

We baby players too much. Also, Jacko, I don't like the Yankees chances so much this year. However, we're 3 1/2 games out of the wild card, and the team that leads it just traded one of their two best hitters and the other one's injury may be a lingering one. It really is anyone's wild card. It's the first week of August.

 

 

Wow, you really are an idiot.

 

Where there's smoke there's fire. And where there's pain, on an arm you're spending 10 million dollars a year for, there's at least a little something out of order -- maybe something that can be played through but maybe not, and due diligence in that situation only makes sense.

 

The real problem here isn't the babying of Joba Chamberlain -- who is hardly "babied," as they stretched him out in midseason at the big league level after grooming him for relief, a conditioning issue that might have helped this injury happen.

 

The *real* problem is that Cashman rushed his kids and did not provide a protective layer of veteran pitching for the first few months of the season to let the kids prove what they had in AAA.

 

That's the most profound Yankee screwup this year. You DON'T throw kids into the fire as Plan A. Sometimes you have to because Plan A fails (see Curt Schilling's shoulder) , but you don't make it Plan A. Not when you have the kind of resources the Yankees have.

[ORS]

I agree that strategy would be best 700, but is it actually realizable? Look at the days people harken back to. There were 14 MLB teams. Less than half of what there are now. The starting rotation was 4 deep, not 5. That's 56 (4x14) starting slots. Now it's 150 (5x30). I think you are seeing less guys guys pitch massive amounts of innings because there's much more load to carry. It's probably better to ensure you get something out of all those with the talent rather than a lot from some and none from the rest.

[Mr Crunchy]

i find it rather amusing that the yanks 3 untouchables were chamberlain kennedy and hughes so they deal karstens for damaso marte...

as a 3-1 underdog yesterday in arizona he took a perfect game into the 8th and shut out the 1st place dbax 2-0.

as a 2.5 -1 dog last week against he nl leading chicago cubs he stuck it up their ass 3-0

15ip and no runs allowed

 

i know the gene pool in the yankee brain trust is a mix of schmegma,spilled beer and ass butter but they gave up on this guy for a middle man whos now carrying a double digit era onto the mound in his 6 short games in the bronx.

 

how long will the fredo brothers put up with brian cashman and his consistant f***ups?

 

torre goes 12 straight times to the playoffs including 11? division titles in a row and he gets canned.

cashman spends 1.2B since the turn of the century and they have sidney ponson as their ace?

come on

how can they justify this to their fans?

[rician blast]

how can they justify this to their fans?

 

They don't need to....they've won 26 world titles...just ask one of 'em.

[ORS]

They don't need to....they've won 26 world titles...just ask one of 'em.

Unpossible, I've never run into this type of MFYF.

[rician blast]

I'm at a concert last night....my buddy has a shirt with a small Sox logo on it.

 

Girl walks up and says "Red Thox Thuck" as she lights her cigarette and throws down her shot of tequila. We laugh our asses off...she says something about Buckner...we laugh even more.

 

The infatuation of some Yankee fans with all things Sox is simply undeniable.

[VA Sox Fan]

I was at a local bar on Sunday 7/6 where a normally "good natured" bar tender-Yankee fan was working. And like the rest of you, I've heard it all

 

He actually asked me if I heard that Jon Lester's cancer came back and he died so he wouldn't be pitching that night. He also said he heard that Manny was f-ing Papi while Tito watched. I only replied that he was a complete a-hole and when and if I return, I'll continue to remind him and tip him $0.

 

Un-f-ing-real.

 

Oh yeah, too bad about Joba's shoulder.

[riverside sluggers]

Id shrug off the Manny/Papi comment... but what a disgrace of a human being to say Lester's cancer had come back and he died from it

[jacksonianmarch]

My point is that we baby players too much, especially pitchers. There is a difference between injury and pain. If it's in the muscle, it's pain. If it's a ligament, it's injury. Stop masturbating over young boys Jacko. If we listened to you, every player the Yankees bring up has a one way ticket to Cooperstown. I'm not saying run him into the ground.

 

Someone explain to me how Roy Halliday can do what he does, and no other SP in baseball can? It's ********. You know starting pitchers are starting pitchers, and relievers are relievers? It's because overall, starting pitchers are your best pitchers. So shouldn't they stay on the field longer?

 

We baby players too much. Also, Jacko, I don't like the Yankees chances so much this year. However, we're 3 1/2 games out of the wild card, and the team that leads it just traded one of their two best hitters and the other one's injury may be a lingering one. It really is anyone's wild card. It's the first week of August.

 

we do baby pitchers, I agree. But the price could be huge if we rush this kid. Scenario for you Gom. Joba takes the ball, guides us to the postseason and we get knocked out by Anaheim. He then tries to pick up a ball in January, cannot, and is found to have a complete tear of his cuff. He has surgery, comes back in 2010 topping out at 95 and not 100 like he was. Was it worth it?

[jacksonianmarch]

Survival of the fittest. IOn the long run it would save teams money if some top talents blew out their arms in AA' date=' rather than coddling them like new born infants and having them blow their arms out at the major league level. Also, if pitchers who made it to the majors were able to shoulder more innings in the minors, they'd be able to go deeper into games in the majors. It is ridiculous that a quality start is now 6 innings 3 runs. If you could on average extend your starters, on average, one more inning there would be tremendously less emphasis on bullpens. You'd probably be able to eliminate the need for two bullpen pitchers. Right now the market for the garbage middle relief is sky high. If they were to condition the starters to go longer at earlier ages, IMO the owners would save money in the long run and the quality of pitching would improve around the league.[/quote']

 

Stamina is a relative thing a700 and some guys dont throw the 7th inning because they run out of steam in the 6th or the 5th. It is rare to find horses like Halladay in this day and age. More emphasis is placed on OBP, more batters are taking pitches and more hitters can hit. Lineups are 9 deep with guys who can hit instead of 1-5 being tough and the rest being cupcakes.

[Paradisecity]

Speak for yourself- our 7-9 slots generally suck.

[Mr Crunchy]

we do need a lot more production from the bottom of the card

tek and ellsbury have blown lately but lowrie seems to be coming around and the jake had 2 good games in a row so that may get him some confidence back.

i fear julio lugo is going to be even more expensive and a worse performer than renteria

theo paid rent 19M for a .270 10hr 35 error season

hes going to eat 18M over the next 2 years and the rest of this years salary which comes to ohh figure 21.5M??....Lowrie has 22 rbi,same as lugo,fkn pathetic....

ells is the key

as ive stated 100xs,we can hide tek in this lineup but not if a couple other guys are slumping and dont look now but mike lowell,a notorious 2nd half disaster, has once gone somewhat bad..with manny gone we cant afford a .230 5 25 effort from lowell down the stretch while tek and ellsbury arent pulling their weight...we are at our best when ells leads off and pedroia hits 2nd to set the table,lets hope thats our scenario come october

[BoSox21]

if Ellsbury earns back the leadoff spot, Youkilis falls back to 7th, Tek will bat 8th and Lowrie will bat 9th. not a bad 7-9 block