PEDitte Admits to Using HGH

[a700hitter]

If Pettitte is such a reputable guy, why did he decide to come back to pitch in NY and leave his family behind in Texas? I thought he wanted to be close to his family. Did he come back to serve the humanitarian purpose of helping the Yankees and their fans to World Championship #27-- sorry I meant #23?

[26 to 6]

There is no comparison between the two situations' date=' but men of God are human and they sin like the rest of us. Just because he is not molesting kids doesn't mean that he isn't a lying cheat.[/quote']

I thouth that thats what u were getting at making the statement regarding men of god. my mistake.

 

Say what you want, but I dont think Pettitte is lying, and he's not a cheater. Please point out what rule he broke.

[TheKilo]

Where did I say it was a definitive report? I've taken the same stance as you since it was released. Go back to the Mitchell thread' date=' which I started and posted in frequently, and find a place where I said that. I challenge you to do so.[/quote']

 

I quoted you because of what you said, not that I was singling you out for what I said later in my post. My apologies for any misunderstanding.

 

If Pettitte is such a man of honor, why couldn't he be as up front as a guy like FP Santangelo was?

 

In an emotional two-hour radio appearance, the seven-year major league veteran, who last played with the Oakland A's in 2001, confessed to using human growth hormone, explained how and why he did it and publicly apologized to his two kids, his ex-wife, his parents and listeners. He talked about the difficulty he had in explaining it all to his children, and the concern he had that his son, F.P. Jr., would be teased Friday in middle school.

 

Santangelo absorbed it all, telling listeners, "I made this bed and now I have to lie in it."

 

After the show, he received numerous phone calls from media outlets eager to make him into some sort of hero for telling the truth. It's a role he says he's entirely uncomfortable with.

 

"I don't want to be this out-front crusader guy," Santangelo told ESPN.com. "I did something absolutely wrong. I shouldn't be made a hero. I made a bad decision against everything I believe.

 

"I admitted it and I faced the music. And if by me being embarrassed helps generations to come not have to make the difficult decisions that I had to make, then it's good that this all came out. But I don't want to be Mr. Public Speaker and go talk to every high school in the world. Through my radio show, I just hope to get the word out about how bad this stuff is."

[a700hitter]

I thouth that thats what u were getting at making the statement regarding men of god. my mistake.

 

Say what you want, but I dont think Pettitte is lying, and he's not a cheater. Please point out what rule he broke.

Was the HGH obtained legally? Although not substance that was part of the ML testing program at the time, was it approved for usage or treament by MLB at the time?

[TheKilo]

I thouth that thats what u were getting at making the statement regarding men of god. my mistake.

 

Say what you want, but I dont think Pettitte is lying, and he's not a cheater. Please point out what rule he broke.

 

How does the Kool-Aid taste?

[a700hitter]

How does the Kool-Aid taste?

The Kool-Aid made famous by another man of God-- Rev. Jim Jones.

[ORS]

Was the HGH obtained legally? Although not substance that was part of the ML testing program at the time' date=' was it approved for usage or treament by MLB at the time?[/quote']

This is the same line of defense he and "Word" nitwit used about Giambi/Sheffield. Is it too hard to read the effing report? MLB banned the use of controlled substances w/o prescription decades ago and specifically included steroids to that in '91.

 

Add I love the "man of God" bit. Wasn't the main reason he high-tailed it back to Texas because he couldn't keep the snake in the cage? I guess he glossed over the adultry stuff when teaching the tots how to be good Christians.

[26 to 6]

This is the same line of defense he and "Word" nitwit used about Giambi/Sheffield. Is it too hard to read the effing report? MLB banned the use of controlled substances w/o prescription decades ago and specifically included steroids to that in '91.

 

Add I love the "man of God" bit. Wasn't the main reason he high-tailed it back to Texas because he couldn't keep the snake in the cage? I guess he glossed over the adultry stuff when teaching the tots how to be good Christians.

Really? I never heard anything about Pettitte and cheating. What do you know?

 

..as for it being hard to read the report, the answer is yes. I did nt sit there and completely read 409 pages. I've only read between 100-200 pages of it. If YOU did indeed read the entire thing, kudos my man.

 

I know it's a longshot, but how do we know that Andy didn't get a prescription? None of us have access to his medical records.

[a700hitter]

I know it's a longshot' date=' but how do we know that Andy didn't get a prescription? None of us have access to his medical records.[/quote']If he had a prescription from a doctor, why would he need he trainer. I think an MD could administer the shots.

[ORS]

It's pretty easy, he wouldn't be in the report if he had a prescription. HGH isn't prescribed to aid in the healing process. It's typically only prescribed for people with an HGH deficiency.

 

I don't "know" anything. I just remember some of the press around the time he left suggested his wife wanted him closer to home because Andy had an affinity for NY nightlife and the ladies. Could be true, could be speculation, but it's there.

[TheKilo]

I know it's a longshot, but how do we know that Andy didn't get a prescription? None of us have access to his medical records.

 

You acknowledge it's a longshot and yet still argue in favor of this position. Kudos, sir.

[Jayhawk Bill]

The 1990 Act also amended 21 U.S.C. § 333(e)(1) to explicitly criminalize as a five-year felony the distribution and possession, with intent to distribute, of human growth hormone "for any use . . . other than the treatment of a disease or other recognized medical condition, where such use has been authorized by the Secretary of Human Services . . . and pursuant to the order of a physician . . . ."[FN6] Pub.L. No. 101-647, title XIX, § 1904 (codified at 21 U.S.C. § 333(e)(1) (1992)).

 

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00019.htm

 

The Secretary of Human Services has not approved hGH for treatment of elbow injuries. Pettitte's actions were illegal.

 

Uniform Player's Contract, incorporated explicitly as a part of the Basic Agreement:

 

3.(a) The Player agrees to perform his services hereunder diligently

and faithfully, to keep himself in first-class physical condition and to

obey the Club’s training rules, and pledges himself to the American

public and to the Club to conform to high standards of personal conduct,

fair play and good sportsmanship.

 

Use of illegal hGH breaches Article 3.(a) of any MLB player's contract, including Andy Pettitte's.

 

Pettitte's actions were wrong. Furthermore, his statement that hGH use was permitted is wrong: its explicit inclusion in 2005 prohibited its scheduled use, but the Basic Agreement already permitted prohibited its illegal use.

[ORS]

I think we should cut 26 and 2212 some slack. No offense to them, but they are just kids. I realize they are either college age or just about there, but that's close enough. They haven't matured enough to become cynical enough to stop viewing these guys as their "heros", so it's got to be pretty tough for them because this is probably the first step in the process of getting there. Given enough time, they'll get to the point where nothing about their former "heros" will surprise them and they won't waste time trying to defend them. Jacko, he's a lost cause (I kid, I kid).

[26 to 6]

You acknowledge it's a longshot and yet still argue in favor of this position. Kudos' date=' sir.[/quote']

I wasn't arguing in favor of anything, just throwing it out there.

 

Look guys, I know what he, and the other 80-something players on that list did was wrong. There's no denying that. But why do we have to crucify them? Countless other players were doing the same. When a prominent Red Sox player is revealed to have used something, I hope you guys are as adament about persecuting them as you are with these players, especially the Yankees named (not refferring to you all, as a lot of us here have responded logically to the findings in the report, but when it comes to 700 and kilo in particular, grow up guys. This isn't about Red Sox vs Yankees, it's about baseball, the game that we all love. What has transpired in the past few days, and even before that is arguably the worst thing to ever happen to the game, and we need to try to get past it all).

[ORS]

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00019.htm

 

The Secretary of Human Services has not approved hGH for treatment of elbow injuries. Pettitte's actions were illegal.

 

Uniform Player's Contract, incorporated explicitly as a part of the Basic Agreement:

 

 

 

Use of illegal hGH breaches Article 3.(a) of any MLB player's contract, including Andy Pettitte's.

 

Pettitte's actions were wrong. Furthermore, his statement that hGH use was permitted is wrong: its explicit inclusion in 2005 prohibited its scheduled use, but the Basic Agreement already prohibited? its illegal use.

[Jayhawk Bill]

I wasn't arguing in favor of anything, just throwing it out there.

 

Look guys, I know what he, and the other 80-something players on that list did was wrong. There's no denying that. But why do we have to crucify them? Countless other players were doing the same. When a prominent Red Sox player is revealed to have used something, I hope you guys are as adament about persecuting them as you are with these players, especially the Yankees names.

 

For the record, I haven't recommended persecuting, prosecuting. or otherwise punishing any player, excepting those whose actions involving PEDs are in violation of the Basic Agreement.

[a700hitter]

I think we should cut 26 and 2212 some slack. No offense to them' date=' but they are just kids. I realize they are either college age or just about there, but that's close enough. They haven't matured enough to become cynical enough to stop viewing these guys as their "heros", so it's got to be pretty tough for them because this is probably the first step in the process of getting there. Given enough time, they'll get to the point where nothing about their former "heros" will surprise them and they won't waste time trying to defend them. Jacko, he's a lost cause (I kid, I kid).[/quote']It's the end of whatever remained of innocence for MLB.

[a700hitter]

I wasn't arguing in favor of anything, just throwing it out there.

 

Look guys, I know what he, and the other 80-something players on that list did was wrong. There's no denying that. But why do we have to crucify them?

Don't cry for these guys. Clemens made a fortune in his twighlight years with the help of this stuff. Pettitte has made himself a pretty penny in the last few years too. They got caught, and their future earnig ability has been irrevocably damaged. I don't feel sorry for them.

Countless other players were doing the same. When a prominent Red Sox player is revealed to have used something' date=' I hope you guys are as adament about persecuting them as you are with these players, especially the Yankees named...[/quote'] I'll leave that to the Yankee fans, but don't look for me to defend those players or believe their spin. I always liked Mo Vaughn, but I couldn't care less about his excuses and stories.

... but when it comes to 700 and kilo in particular' date=' grow up guys. This isn't about Red Sox vs Yankees, it's about baseball, the game that we all love. What has transpired in the past few days, and even before that is arguably the worst thing to ever happen to the game, and we need to try to get past it all).[/quote']For me, it is always about Yankees-Red Sox. It always has been. I'm not worried about the game of baseball. If you haven't noticed, attendance is up each year and I don't think attendance will suffer in 2008 as a result of this report. It's an unfortunate coincidence for Yankee fans that their team dominated during this disgraceful era and that they apparently were chief particpants in the cheating. For Red Sox fans, bad news for the Yankees is music to our ears. It's the most wonderful time of the year.

[rician blast]

He knew he'd get crucified if he admitted anything regardless. He could have just denied it. Also' date=' his admission throws Roger under the bus. And, the evidence points towards a single incident as well.[/quote']

 

The extent of the evidence is what he based his "story" on. If the evidence would have implicated him in 10 incidents he'd have said "those were the only 10."

 

WHat I find funny is that if he took HGH to help heal, did he honestly think that one or two injections were going to do the trick? Wouldn't he have taken injections over a period of time? That in itself, IMO, weakens his story.

[riverside sluggers]

wow...PLEASE SIGN HIM BOSTON!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/clemens-may-not.html

 

the guy who runs mlb trade rumors believes the opportunity could grow larger if the Sox lose out on Johan

[Jayhawk Bill]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/clemens-may-not.html

 

the guy who runs mlb trade rumors believes the opportunity could grow larger if the Sox lose out on Johan

 

I guess that MLB Trade Rumors got the idea from the linked article by Davidoff, missing a critical line, bolded below:

 

Many friends of Clemens believe he wants to end his career where it began, with the Boston Red Sox. Were that to happen, Clemens would be a "teammate" of Mitchell, who is a Red Sox director. But the Red Sox have a surplus of starting pitchers.

 

While Clemens has been publicly pulverized since the release of the Mitchell Report, it should be stressed that Mitchell presented only one witness, McNamee, who accused Clemens of wrongdoing. There is no corroborating witness, and, unlike many of the other players named, no paper trail.

 

It would be nearly impossible for baseball Commissioner Bud Selig to suspend Clemens based on the Mitchell Report's findings, as the alleged transgressions occurred before baseball had a collectively bargained drug-testing program.

 

Ken Davidoff is a sportwriter who trusts his opinions and his friends opinions. His first paragraph quoted above is opinion, not fact. Rob Neyer, I guy I respect, has had at least one run-in with Davidoff. Neyer favors facts, IMO. I think that Davidoff goes out on limbs too much, and that he's done it again in this article.

 

Those last two quoted paragraphs Davidoff wrote I'd concur with. I don't think that there's much chance of Clemens coming back to Boston, though: Theo and the FO gave him a great shot at being part of the 2007 team and he ran off to the Yankees, where he had both pitching trouble and injury trouble. Now he's cited in the Mitchell Report. Frankly, I can't see any team except for the Yankees or the Astros even being interested at this point, and I think that Boston would be interested least of all.

 

But that's just my opinion...I've got one, Davidoff's got one.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

It's an unfortunate coincidence for Yankee fans that their team dominated during this disgraceful era and that they apparently were chief particpants in the cheating. For Red Sox fans' date=' bad news for the Yankees is music to our ears. It's the most wonderful time of the year.[/quote']

 

How can you even be sure they were the team with the most users? Just because they were prominent in a report stemming from NYC sources doesn't mean they were the 'chief participants in the cheating.' Mitchell made it very clear that the report is incomplete in who it names, and even if he didn't say that it's painfully obvious with some of the glaring omissions (Sosa for one).

[26 to 6]

He doesn't, but thats 700 for ya. Leave it to him to take any, and every opportunity to bash the Yankees.

[TheKilo]

I wasn't arguing in favor of anything, just throwing it out there.

 

Look guys, I know what he, and the other 80-something players on that list did was wrong. There's no denying that. But why do we have to crucify them? Countless other players were doing the same. When a prominent Red Sox player is revealed to have used something, I hope you guys are as adament about persecuting them as you are with these players, especially the Yankees named (not refferring to you all, as a lot of us here have responded logically to the findings in the report, but when it comes to 700 and kilo in particular, grow up guys. This isn't about Red Sox vs Yankees, it's about baseball, the game that we all love. What has transpired in the past few days, and even before that is arguably the worst thing to ever happen to the game, and we need to try to get past it all).

 

What the f***? What have I said that isn't logical?

[TheKilo]

How can you even be sure they were the team with the most users? Just because they were prominent in a report stemming from NYC sources doesn't mean they were the 'chief participants in the cheating.' Mitchell made it very clear that the report is incomplete in who it names' date=' and even if he didn't say that it's painfully obvious with some of the glaring omissions (Sosa for one).[/quote']

 

Where's the evidence of steroids with Sosa?

[a700hitter]

How can you even be sure they were the team with the most users? Just because they were prominent in a report stemming from NYC sources doesn't mean they were the 'chief participants in the cheating.' Mitchell made it very clear that the report is incomplete in who it names' date=' and even if he didn't say that it's painfully obvious with some of the glaring omissions (Sosa for one).[/quote']Until the top two starters on another team are exposed, the Yankees are hard to beat.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Where's the evidence of steroids with Sosa?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Until the top two starters on another team are exposed' date=' the Yankees are hard to beat.[/quote']

 

There are plenty of teams with several guys linked to steroids.

Like how about the Orioles:

Sosa

Palmiero

Tejada

Gibbons

Roberts

Bigbie

Grimsley

[schillingouttheks]

Except over half of those players weren't with the Orioles during the Yankees' championships. That's the time we're referring to, no?

[TheKilo]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sosasa01.shtml

 

I don't see evidence of steroids.