Mitchell Report

[Mr Crunchy]

its like christmas morning here

lets see the roger ballwashers get around this...

hes already denied it,albeit thru his legal council.

heres a guy who pitched .500 baseball as the highest paid player in the game between 91-95 and when he left here he won 4 more cy youngs,coincidently around the time the roids entered his life....

good bye hall of fame

hello shame and slandering the good name of his children

kotex,k.y,kayla keefey and katey.....f*** em

just like an a hindu society,the children will answer for the sins of the father

 

now

how good do ken griffey frank thomas and manny ramirez look now?

[26 to 6]

hmmm Jose Canseco, who was in town yesteday and was deined entrance into the Grand Hyatt ballroom for the Mitchell press-conference, is shocked that A-Rod wasnt't named in the report.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/12/14/2007-12-14_jose_canseco_arod_got_off_hook-3.html

 

"All I can say is the Mitchell Report is incomplete," Canseco said. "I could not believe that (Rodriguez's) name was not in the report."

 

...Jose's a guy who I've always sort of liked. Maybe respected is a better word? IDK what it is but going back to his playing days he's just someone that stood out to me. I like to listen whenever he has something to say, after what we have learned to be true ni Juiced. Anyone know when his second a third books, which he has discussed within the past year, will be published and released?

[BudLight]

its like christmas morning here

lets see the roger ballwashers get around this...

hes already denied it,albeit thru his legal council.

heres a guy who pitched .500 baseball as the highest paid player in the game between 91-95 and when he left here he won 4 more cy youngs,coincidently around the time the roids entered his life....

good bye hall of fame

hello shame and slandering the good name of his children

kotex,k.y,kayla keefey and katey.....f*** em

just like an a hindu society,the children will answer for the sins of the father

 

now

how good do ken griffey frank thomas and manny ramirez look now?[/QUOTE]

 

 

Or even A-Rod!! Are these guys now vindicated from any hint of illegal substance usage or have they just not been named/caught? We may never know. If Raja is truly innocent as his lawyer stated yesterday, I would fully expect a slander suit to be filed. We all know he has the money to pursue such an endeavor, hell he raped Steinbrenner of $28M last year alone.

[BoSox21]

no question the Mitchell Report is incomplete. He could only report what people, who were actually willing to talk to him, told him

[BudLight]

Does this now change the perception of McGwire? He has only been linked to Andro, which, at the time he was taking it, was not a banned substance in MLB.

[Mr Crunchy]

mcguire had zits on his eyelids and hair growing out of his palms and broke down like most of these juice heads did over time.

f*** him too

the press and h.o.f voters will have the final say on who did and who didnt

mike lansing made the list??

he didnt hit kate holmes weight here in boston

 

i dont care

i just like to see hypocrites liars and cheaters exposed for what they really are.

its too bad for the kids but i inbedded in my 12 year old from the 1st day he understood english that these guys are proffesionals who do it for money.

he hasnt really been the same since we dumped nomar(where the f*** was he on this list) but now he gets the fact that the oldman roots for the name on the front of the jersey and not so much the name on the back

i am glad that manny and ortiz didnt make the list

 

canseco's wife and arod look a lot alike by the way

[YAZMAN]

If Raja is truly innocent as his lawyer stated yesterday' date=' I would fully expect a slander suit to be filed. We all know he has the money to pursue such an endeavor, hell he raped Steinbrenner of $28M last year alone.[/quote']

 

Let's hope so, he really needs to be in focus and talking as much as possible so that his full douchitude is revealed.

[ORS]

whoa where did I backpedal? from what? that George Mitchell was the wrong guy fr the investigation? That the perception from being on the list was unfair because there is probaly not going to be another one? That I feel Mitchell didn't go hard after the Red Sox players on a sbconcious level? When did I backpedal from this?

 

Because I tried to keep things peaceful, I am backpedaling? and if I continue to stick to my guns and be a jackass about it, then I get remarks about taking sponge baths with people.

 

Just because someone does not wish to engage in unproductive forum wars doesn't mean they backpedal. I seriously do not understand the need to constantly make snide remarks about other posters simply because they disagree with you.

First you are OK with Mitchell until the list came out.

You don't like the list, so there's a problem.

When called on how that doesn't make sense, you switch and quote Howard Bryant stating you didn't like this from the start.

First you insinuate there was a deliberate attempt to not name Sox.

Then it's a "subconscious" effect preventing him from looking for Boston players.

An hour later, he's biased because no current Sox are on the list (that suggests deliberate).

 

Make up your mind, dude.

 

EDIT: Why so sensitive to the snide remarks? You seem to have no problem making them about Mitchell's report. I guess you just don't like them coming back the other way. Typical.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is certainly bias to be drawn from this. The fact that Mitchell is a part of the sox organization cannot be denied. But the bigger bias is who talked to Mitchell and the hundreds of people who had the opportunity to do so. The two biggest names being the Mets trainer and Clemens old trainer. I amd pretty sure that if a sox trainer talked to Mitchell, we'd have a handful of sox on the list.

[TheKilo]

There is certainly bias to be drawn from this. The fact that Mitchell is a part of the sox organization cannot be denied. But the bigger bias is who talked to Mitchell and the hundreds of people who had the opportunity to do so. The two biggest names being the Mets trainer and Clemens old trainer. I amd pretty sure that if a sox trainer talked to Mitchell' date=' we'd have a handful of sox on the list.[/quote']

 

Get your tinfoil caps ready.

 

You honestly believe Mitchell would risk his reputation on this report by not including information about Sox players if he knew it? There's internal emails from Theo about Gagne! It's not his fault the player's union dragged their feet on this issue.

[ORS]

There is certainly bias to be drawn from this. The fact that Mitchell is a part of the sox organization cannot be denied. But the bigger bias is who talked to Mitchell and the hundreds of people who had the opportunity to do so. The two biggest names being the Mets trainer and Clemens old trainer. I amd pretty sure that if a sox trainer talked to Mitchell' date=' we'd have a handful of sox on the list.[/quote']

What is the difference between the Sox trainer and the Mets' and Clemens' trainer?

 

This is a crucial piece of information, so please answer.

[Mr Crunchy]

*ny yankees 96-98-99-2000

 

its a bad dream isnt it

f*** em

and f*** all the roger clemens apologists out there too

i feel for andy...his unhealthy bond with clemens is deeper than we suspected

did he juice by choice or is this some type of ritual between the 2?

what next?

andy petite and roger clemens do suck cock by choice

[26 to 6]

its like christmas morning here

lets see the roger ballwashers get around this...

hes already denied it,albeit thru his legal council.

heres a guy who pitched .500 baseball as the highest paid player in the game between 91-95 and when he left here he won 4 more cy youngs,coincidently around the time the roids entered his life....

good bye hall of fame

hello shame and slandering the good name of his children

kotex,k.y,kayla keefey and katey.....f*** em

just like an a hindu society,the children will answer for the sins of the father

 

now

how good do ken griffey frank thomas and manny ramirez look now?

Wow..pretty quick to get on his kids, aren't ya? What exactly did they do to you? It's bad enough that they're going to have to deal with all the backlash from this, and have their name completely tarnished, but now they have to be insulted by people like you who just happen to dislike their father?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

*ny yankees 96-98-99-2000

 

its a bad dream isnt it

f*** em

and f*** all the roger clemens apologists out there too

i feel for andy...his unhealthy bond with clemens is deeper than we suspected

did he juice by choice or is this some type of ritual between the 2?

what next?

andy petite and roger clemens do suck cock by choice

Do us ALL a faor and just shut the f*** up man. WHen you have somethig reasonably intelligent to say then feel free to open up gain..but s*** like this is just ridiculous. Take your spiteful feelings for the Yankees and go do something with them. Who on the '96 team was implemented again? uhh...none, at least not in this report. If you wanna go to that extreme then be fair about it. Don't fail to mention the '89 A's and such.

 

..also, keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.

[Thumper]

Isn't Clemens a mentor sort of for Joba Chamberlin? I could see the clubhouse conversation now...

 

Joba: Hey Rog! I was wondering if you had any pointers for me that could help me improve my pitching?

Clemens: *Hands Joba several syringes* Take one every morning in your ass. It's better when another man does it though.

Joba: This is your idea of a "pointer"?

[He Hate Me]

First you are OK with Mitchell until the list came out.

You don't like the list, so there's a problem.

When called on how that doesn't make sense, you switch and quote Howard Bryant stating you didn't like this from the start.

First you insinuate there was a deliberate attempt to not name Sox.

Then it's a "subconscious" effect preventing him from looking for Boston players.

An hour later, he's biased because no current Sox are on the list (that suggests deliberate).

 

Make up your mind, dude.

 

Of course I was ok with the list until it came out. I only started complaining after I saw what looked like unbalanced effort aimed away from the Sox. I had worries about Mitchell from the beginning but figured he would be able to do things impartially, the list made me feel not so comfortable with that line of thought.

 

oh and where do I say it was deliberate? show me the post and I'll gladly cede your points. because I ask how many red sox players are on the list, suddenly I'm suggesting it's deliberate? that's just wrong.

 

EDIT: Why so sensitive to the snide remarks? You seem to have no problem making them about Mitchell's report. I guess you just don't like them coming back the other way. Typical.

 

If you seriously think there's a similarity between me questioning how hard Mithcell loked at his own backyard and your comments about me taking sponge baths and being a backpedaler, then I don't think we are going to accomplish much by continuing this discussion.

 

You contribute a lot to the site and I always find most of your posts well thought out, but you have a history of abrasive behavior and can be quite prickly if even one word offends you in some way from a post.

 

I don't mind it usually and am actually quite used to it, but being called a backpedaler when I'm simply trying to calm things down by taking a conciliatory approach is not something that I can just ignore.

[He Hate Me]

*ny yankees 96-98-99-2000

 

its a bad dream isnt it

f*** em

and f*** all the roger clemens apologists out there too

i feel for andy...his unhealthy bond with clemens is deeper than we suspected

did he juice by choice or is this some type of ritual between the 2?

what next?

andy petite and roger clemens do suck cock by choice

 

read the report first before bagging on the 1996-2000 teams. Except for Roger and possibly David Justice, everyone else pretty much started after 2000.

[ORS]

Alright, since you want to continue to question how hard he looked at the Sox, I want you to answer a question. Where was he supposed to look?

[Thumper]

Alright' date=' since you want to continue to question how hard he looked at the Sox, I want you to answer a question. Where was he supposed to look?[/quote']

 

The Red Sox organization, and only the Red Sox organization.

[rician blast]

Hmmm. If Clemens had chosen the Sox over the Yanks to come back to' date=' would his name have been saved?[/quote']

 

Would depend on who supplied him, advised him and injected him and whether that individual would have talked.

 

The guys that were implicated by Radamski and McNamee had the misfortune of doing business with two guys that could be coerced to talk.

 

Those who've gone undetected to this point are likely tied to guys that have remained quiet, kept themselves out of trouble, and, IMHO, quite possibly STILL supplying them PEDs (HGH perhaps) and remain quiet because its lucrative.

[26 to 6]

As a Yankee fan I wanted to make note of all the players named who had at one point played for the Yankees. Pretty large portion of those named have played for the Yankees at one point. As a Yankee fan I feel ashamed, sad, hurt, cheated, etc. I'm just at a loss for words...this s*** sucks.

 

Rondell White, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Chuck Knoblauch, Jason Grimsley, David Justice ,F.P. Santangelo, Glenallen Hill, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Todd Pratt, Mike Stanton, Kevin Brown, Jose Canseco, Jason Grimsley, Gary Sheffield.

 

Amazing.

 

das, just wanted to point out that I recall reading a little bit on Alex Cabrera in the report and packages he had recieved while still with Arizona. He's not on your list, just wanted to let you know. Between names like Nook Logan, and Matt Franco t's extraordinary to see some of the guys who were using PEDs. After seing Franco and Cabrera it occurred to me why guys like this, particularily Cabrera had so much success in Japan. Over in Japan they pay little/no attention at all to performance enhancing drugs, and because they are so oblivious to this issue, it has appearantly allowed guys like Cabrera and others to make great careers for themselves over there. Guys not named, but who fit this description are the likes of Tuffy Rhodes, Benny Agbayani, etc. I'm interested to see if NPB addresses this at all in the coming months. Not that whether they do or don't is significant, I would just like to see a huge crackdown in all aspects of the game. The information revealed today is just absolutely SICKENING

Regarding NPB

 

http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=11363

 

NPB denies steroid use in Japan

 

TOKYO, Dec. 14 (20:22) Kyodo

 

 

(EDS: UPDATING, INCORPORATING EARLIER STORIES ON JAPAN'S REACTION TO

REPORT ABOUT USE OF PERFORMANCE-ENHANCING DRUGS IN MAJOR LEAGUES)

 

Acting Nippon Professional Baseball commissioner Yasuchika

Negoro on Friday categorically denied the use of

performance-enhancing substances in Japanese baseball.

 

''Our monitoring of the use of banned substances has been

working properly,'' Negoro said following the release of former U.S.

Sen. George Mitchell's report on steroid use in the major leagues

that cites cases involving players currently active in Japan.

 

Yakult Swallows first baseman Adam Riggs and Hanshin Tigers

reliever Jeff Williams are among the players who appeared on the

list. However, both have tested negative in random drug screenings

conducted by the NPB.

 

''About two-thirds of the NPB-related players mentioned by the

report have received tests and there have been no positive cases, so

I don't see any problems at all regarding the monitoring by our

organization,'' Negoro said.

 

According to the Mitchell report, Williams bought Anavar and

Dianabol steroids from a former New York Mets clubhouse attendant in

December 2004 -- after the former Los Angeles Dodgers left-hander

joined the Hanshin Tigers in 2003.

 

''In order to provide Williams with information about these

allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to

meet with me. He did not respond to my request,'' the report said,

showing a copy of one check from Williams dated Dec. 10, 2004, in the

amount of $1,820.

 

''I trust him,'' Hanshin club president Nobuo Minami said in a

brief comment when asked about Williams' case cited by the report.

 

''He flatly denied the use of any banned substances and said he

is ready to accept fresh checkups any time,'' Minami added.

 

Williams, who helped Australia win the silver medal in the

Athens Olympic baseball tournament, was negative in tests conducted

by the Australian Olympic Committee in May last year and by the NPB

two months later.

 

The NPB systematically started doping tests this year after one

year of framework building amid controversy over alleged steroid use

that has rocked the major leagues.

 

''We've been urging each club in NPB executive committee

meetings to remain cautious about the use of banned substances. I

hope all clubs continue their work,'' committee chairman Tadao Koike

said.

 

The Mitchell report also named Alex Cabrera, who left the Seibu

Lions this offseason after the two sides remained divided over a

salary deal.

 

Senior Seibu official Kosuke Maeda denied Friday that the

Pacific League club did not re-sign the former Arizona Diamondbacks

slugger because of his alleged steroid use.

 

''That's not why he left Seibu,'' Maeda said when asked whether

his alleged steroid use is the reason for Cabrera's departure after

the Venezuelan spent seven years with the Lions.

 

The report said, ''The Drug Enforcement Administration confirmed

that the shipment to Cabrera (a bottle of anabolic steroids and

several hundred pills in a package mailed to the Diamondbacks'

stadium in mid-September 2000) had contained steroids.''

 

Maeda ruled out the possibility that Cabrera used banned

substances during his stint with the Lions that began in 2001.

 

''I don't believe he ever did it and we always warn foreign

players against drug use each time we sign them,'' Maeda said.

 

Meanwhile, officials of the Orix Buffaloes said the allegations

will not affect their hunt for Cabrera, who led the Pacific League in

home runs in 2002 and in RBI in 2006.

[Paradisecity]

How many current Red Sox players are on the list?

 

Brendan Donnelly

 

How many current yankees? (ignore the balco stuff from much earlier- nothing new)

 

Andy Pettite

 

 

How many former players with sox ties?

Roger Clemens

Mo Vaughn

Mike Lansing

Eric Gagne

Brendan Donnelly

Paxton Crawford

Kent Mercker

Mike Stanton

Steve Woodard

Chris Donnels

Josias Manzanillo

 

Former players with yankees ties?

Roger Clemens

Andy Pettitte

David Justice

Denny Neagle

Mike Stanton

Chuck Knoblauch

Glenallen Hill

Kevin Brown

Ron Villone

Rondell White

 

 

I'm not going to clal you any names HHM, or weigh in on your before and after, but tell me, how , exactly, is this list unbalanced? The fact that you are even comparing lists against each other to see "how many" is kind of ridiculous as it is, don't you think?

[Thumper]

How many current Red Sox players are on the list?

 

Brendan Donnelly

 

How many current yankees? (ignore the balco stuff from much earlier- nothing new)

 

Andy Pettite

 

 

How many former players with sox ties?

Roger Clemens

Mo Vaughn

Mike Lansing

Eric Gagne

Brendan Donnelly

Paxton Crawford

Kent Mercker

Mike Stanton

Steve Woodard

Chris Donnels

Josias Manzanillo

 

Former players with yankees ties?

Roger Clemens

Andy Pettitte

David Justice

Denny Neagle

Mike Stanton

Chuck Knoblauch

Glenallen Hill

Kevin Brown

Ron Villone

Rondell White

 

 

I'm not going to clal you any names HHM, or weight in on your before and after, but tell me, how , exactly, is this list unbalanced? The fact that you are even comparing lists against each other to see "how many" is kind of ridiculous as it is, don't you think?

 

I think they were hoping to find more current players, such as Trot, Nomar, Papi, Manny, Beckett, etc. Where as they have 2 current Yankees outed to 1 Red Sox (now former), Gagné.

[MANNYHOF24]

After the All-Star break in 1998, Clemens finished the season 11-0 with a 1.71 ERA in 15 starts for Toronto after going 9-6 with a 3.55 ERA in 18 starts in the first half. After that season, Clemens received his fifth AL Cy Young Award.

 

Clemens accroding to the report recieved the drugs right around the all-star break. Clemens looks very guilty if you ask me.

[He Hate Me]

Alright' date=' since you want to continue to question how hard he looked at the Sox, I want you to answer a question. Where was he supposed to look?[/quote']

 

I don't know. I understand that the trainers in the New York area were the ones who got caught and therefore the list contains a lot more prominent Yankees. There however were a few Sox minor leaguers who got caught, were they not teammates of some current Red Sox members? Did Mitchell attempt to talk to the minor league trainers? Did he talk to the people who clean up the clubhouses? Any former administrative employees?

 

You know what would make me happy? If he revealed just what kinds of inquiries he made and to whom, fruitless or not. I think there should at least some level of transparency on that one. I would like to know that for $20M, maximum effort was made.

[rician blast]

I am pretty sure that if a sox trainer talked to Mitchell' date=' we'd have a handful of sox on the list.[/quote']

 

That may be true but can be said for any team in any city. Had investigators gotten someone to talk the thing would likely snowball.

 

No one here is saying the Sox players are innocent and many of us have suspected guys like Nomar, Manny, Damon when he was here, Nixon, Tek, Kapler, Foulke, etc. Assuming they or other Sox players have used, they just likely did business with guys who to date have flown under the radar.

[ORS]

The guys that were implicated by Radamski and McNamee had the misfortune of doing business with two guys that could be coerced to talk.

Bingo! I don't care if he questioned every trainer who ever worked for every team. He had nothing on anyone outside those two, he had no subpoena power, and he would have received no information.

[He Hate Me]

How many current Red Sox players are on the list?

 

Brendan Donnelly

 

How many current yankees? (ignore the balco stuff from much earlier- nothing new)

 

Andy Pettite

 

 

How many former players with sox ties?

Roger Clemens

Mo Vaughn

Mike Lansing

Eric Gagne

Brendan Donnelly

Paxton Crawford

Kent Mercker

Mike Stanton

Steve Woodard

Chris Donnels

Josias Manzanillo

 

Former players with yankees ties?

Roger Clemens

Andy Pettitte

David Justice

Denny Neagle

Mike Stanton

Chuck Knoblauch

Glenallen Hill

Kevin Brown

Ron Villone

Rondell White

 

 

I'm not going to clal you any names HHM, or weight in on your before and after, but tell me, how , exactly, is this list unbalanced? The fact that you are even comparing lists against each other to see "how many" is kind of ridiculous as it is, don't you think?

 

My issue is that the Red Sox players on the list did not play a prominent role during their time with the Sox or were not juicing while with the Sox, whereas people like Petite, Clemens, Chuck, Stanton, and Justice satisfy either category.

[Mr Crunchy]

read the report first before bagging on the 1996-2000 teams. Except for Roger and possibly David Justice' date=' everyone else pretty much started after 2000.[/quote']

 

thats a point that has some validity to it

clemens was on the 99 team,juicing since 98 with his own roids

when did he start?

the trainer says roger had his own roids in toronto,his meteoric rebirth began in 97

so based on performance we need to visit roger circa 97

but he threw a 20k game in sept 96?

was he finishing his career in boston legitimately or on the spike??

 

this is a sad day for a lot of good people who believed and worshipped at his altar

i saw an wabc news reporter on good morning america interviewing some youngsters in queens who were reading the daily news headlines...

the chubby kid looks up and says

""he said it was about his work ethic,he said his training was unique,i guess it was really about the steroids""said the 14? year old boy as he threw the paper in the trash with his yankee hat and gotr on the bus for school

[rician blast]

read the report first before bagging on the 1996-2000 teams. Except for Roger and possibly David Justice' date=' everyone else pretty much started after 2000.[/quote']

 

 

Started? How does anyone really know when someone started. Even in the case of testimony that says a player approached a trainer/team attendant in a particular month/year and asked if he could get stuff and advise what to take...does that mean the player never used anything prior?

 

it's not like Clemens, or anyone else, would say "hey trainer, I've been using sh*t for years but my supplier is gone, can you get me some stuff?" Of course they're going to approach it someone as if they'd never done it before.

[ORS]

I don't know. I understand that the trainers in the New York area were the ones who got caught and therefore the list contains a lot more prominent Yankees. There however were a few Sox minor leaguers who got caught, were they not teammates of some current Red Sox members? Did Mitchell attempt to talk to the minor league trainers? Did he talk to the people who clean up the clubhouses? Any former administrative employees?

 

You know what would make me happy? If he revealed just what kinds of inquiries he made and to whom, fruitless or not. I think there should at least some level of transparency on that one. I would like to know that for $20M, maximum effort was made.

He had no subpoena power. The MLBPA advised players, current and former, not to talk to him.

 

How do you know he didn't attempt to do these things? It isn't a report of every day, productive or not. There are no line items "Talked to Chicago trainer today, he knows nothing, off to lunch". It's a report of his findings, not a diary.