Yankees might pull out of Santana chase...(for now)

[jacksonianmarch]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140498&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

 

They are asking for Hughes, Kennedy and Melky.

 

Hughes is still considered a future ace and right now is at least a #3 pitcher. Kennedy right now is at least a back end pitcher with #3 potential. Melky is one of the better armed CFers in the game and has solid offensive AVG potential.

 

That's 3 guys who are already in the majors, one with a very high potential and two with solid potentials who are more realistic to reach them. WAY too much, even for the best pitcher in baseball. If the sox get Johan for Ellsbury and 2 minor leaguers, I will s*** myself. The fact that the Twins are turning down 3 solid 23 and under Major Leaguers makes me feel as if they dont have much interest in dealing him unless they are blown away. We'll see if they change their tune when their backs go against the wall. Unless the sox include Buchholz, I dont see how they get him. But they have pulled off the surprise before.

[example1]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140498&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

 

They are asking for Hughes, Kennedy and Melky.

 

Hughes is still considered a future ace and right now is at least a #3 pitcher. Kennedy right now is at least a back end pitcher with #3 potential. Melky is one of the better armed CFers in the game and has solid offensive AVG potential.

 

That's 3 guys who are already in the majors, one with a very high potential and two with solid potentials who are more realistic to reach them. WAY too much, even for the best pitcher in baseball. If the sox get Johan for Ellsbury and 2 minor leaguers, I will s*** myself. The fact that the Twins are turning down 3 solid 23 and under Major Leaguers makes me feel as if they dont have much interest in dealing him unless they are blown away. We'll see if they change their tune when their backs go against the wall. Unless the sox include Buchholz, I dont see how they get him. But they have pulled off the surprise before.

 

If neither team gets him, the Red Sox will have won.

[TheKilo]

If neither team gets him' date=' the Red Sox will have won.[/quote']

 

Hey I agree with you. First time in weeks.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox will have won for 2008. If he goes to Free Agency, we win big time.

[He Hate Me]

Man I am so done with this. It is seriously time to just move on.

[26 to 6]

As great as it would be having Santana in pinstripes, i've struggled with the fact that to get him we'd be giving up some of our solid young guys, who I think many Yankee fans have grown to love. So although as it looks now we wont be getting Santana, we still have Hughes and Melky, which isn't exactly a bad thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

Status quo is not a bad thing IMO. Hughes and Joba are gonna be filthy for a long time. Wang at 27 would slot in as a very goo #3 and Kennedy has a long future in the game as well. In a yr or two, we will have one of the best young rotations in the game.

[das11209]

Status quo is not a bad thing IMO. Hughes and Joba are gonna be filthy for a long time. Wang at 27 would slot in as a very goo #3 and Kennedy has a long future in the game as well. In a yr or two' date=' we will have one of the best young rotations in the game.[/quote']

 

You are amazing in spinning any situation in favor of a particular direction. Ever considered politics instead of medicine?

[He Hate Me]

You are amazing in spinning any situation in favor of a particular direction. Ever considered politics instead of medicine?

 

a rotation of Petite-Wang-Joba-Hughes-Kennedy/Mussina will do just fine actually. We want Santana but the price is just too high.

[das11209]

a rotation of Petite-Wang-Joba-Hughes-Kennedy/Mussina will do just fine actually. We want Santana but the price is just too high.

 

If you say so. Hughes just had one good second half. We all know how Wang can fall apart. Joba has never been a starter in the major. I am sure Mussina will win 20 games for you. The only player I think is close to a # 1 is Petitte - and he is getting old too.

 

But - if you guys are happy with that - I am happy for you. Might turn out better than Carla and Igawa in your rotation on opening day.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are amazing in spinning any situation in favor of a particular direction. Ever considered politics instead of medicine?

 

the rotation still is better than any we have come into the season with the past few seasons. Think about it.

 

RJ- bust

Pavana- bust

Wright- bust

Vazquez- bust

Brown- bust

 

Last yr we started the season with a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Pavano, Rasner all the while knowing that Clemens was in the wings. Aside from Wang and Pettitte the rest failed. Well, Wang and Pettitte are back. And instead of relying on old guys or fringe players, we are relying on 3 hot prospects at the back end of the rotation. We know what we will get out of Wang and Pettitte (for the most part). If only one of the kids actually pitches well, then we have a top 3 of our rotation that is nice. If all 3 make strides this season, obviously not CY type strides, then our rotation will be solid. And instead of having to rely on moose every 5th day, we get to use him as a spot starter, ie his arm will be fresher. And when he had time off, he was good in return. If you guys get Santana, your rotation will be far and away the best in the game. But it doesnt mean ours will suck.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you say so. Hughes just had one good second half. We all know how Wang can fall apart. Joba has never been a starter in the major. I am sure Mussina will win 20 games for you. The only player I think is close to a # 1 is Petitte - and he is getting old too.

 

But - if you guys are happy with that - I am happy for you. Might turn out better than Carla and Igawa in your rotation on opening day.

 

Hughes had one good second half? Hughes was hurt for the first half and totally sucked for a stretch of 3-4 starts. Once the pitching coach from AAA came up and unmonkeyed around with his mechanics (thanks Gator) he started pitching well again. Well, that pitching coach is now the MLB pitching coach, so that excuse has flown. That being said, I expect Hughes to be very good this season. Chamberlain hasnt started, that is true, but in the minors he wasnt just dominant, he was dirty. And we saw what he could do to MLB hitters in the clutch. It wasnt even fair. As a starter, he likely wont be throwing 101, but he can sit in the high 90s for 5-6 innings like he did in Tampa and Trenton. And in terms of Kennedy, you dont rocket through a system having the success that he had and winning the MiLB pitcher of the yr if you suck. He is a good pitcher too. All three of these guys have high upside. It all depends on how they adjust. But to imply that they will flop is more wishful thinking than anything.

 

And in terms of Wang, um, aside from last yrs playoffs, where else did he flop? Yeah, he didnt. He is about as good a bet to win 15-20 games as anyone with the offense returning. Face it, with Wang and Pettitte atop the rotation, we have 2 guys who will likely give us 400IP and 35-40 wins.

[26 to 6]

In addittion to those guys, for insurance we still have guys like Rasner coming back from injury, Chase Wright who didnt do too poorly in his stint last year, Igawa; who despite his performance last year and the doubts Yankee/basebll fans have about him CAN/WILL be a solid pitcher in the Major leagues. He's too good not to be.

 

....can't wait for the responses on that one

 

Basically what I'm saying is that while we may not have Johan Santana or Josh Beckett or Jake Peavy or Ben Sheets, we do still have a formidable rotation with hot young studs, and decent insurance policies. Humberto Sanchez will be healthy, and although the Yankees plan on converting him to the bullpen he has experience starting so he could be another insurance option too. All I'm saying is that when you have a guy like Mike Mussina, with his savvy at the back end or as your spot starter, can't be too bad.

[das11209]

In addittion to those guys, for insurance we still have guys like Rasner coming back from injury, Chase Wright who didnt do too poorly in his stint last year, Igawa; who despite his performance last year and the doubts Yankee/basebll fans have about him CAN/WILL be a solid pitcher in the Major leagues. He's too good not to be.

 

....can't wait for the responses on that one

 

 

All I can say is my car and home insurance looks better than your insurance policy. Hopefully we see your insurance more often on the field.

[He Hate Me]

If you say so. Hughes just had one good second half. We all know how Wang can fall apart. Joba has never been a starter in the major. I am sure Mussina will win 20 games for you. The only player I think is close to a # 1 is Petitte - and he is getting old too.

 

But - if you guys are happy with that - I am happy for you. Might turn out better than Carla and Igawa in your rotation on opening day.

 

and we could just say as many bad things about your team if we wanted to spin it that way. I could go on about the mediocore performance by your pitching staff against us this year, etc. but I'm really not interested in getting into a pissing match over that. I'm fine with our rotation, I'd prefer to have Santana, but we had the best record in baseball last year after June something, and if not for the game 2 gnats, we probably would have beenn favorites against the Sox in the ALCS considering how we played gaainst you guys during the regular season, so our pitching staff will probably do just fine.

[jacksonianmarch]

...we..have guys...coming...who...do...hot young studs. Humberto...has experience starting...with his savvy at the back end.

 

you sick f***!

[das11209]

you sick f***!

 

That was funny - for a moment I thought he was serious.

[rician blast]

a rotation of Petite-Wang-Joba-Hughes-Kennedy/Mussina will do just fine actually. We want Santana but the price is just too high.

 

Quite possibly true. With their offense they'd win at a good clip and I suspect they'd make the playoffs.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Yankees will not change their offer:

 

Just spoke to a Yankees Exec Who Can Be Trusted and learned this:

 

The YEWCBT said that Brian Cashman has made his final offer and will not toss in Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne or Austin Jackson. That would seem to favor the Red Sox but the Dodgers and Angels are now getting in the mix with the Yankees on the outskirts.

 

This hillbilly nightmare The Winter Meetings end on Thursday morning, so there is little chance that Santana will be officially traded by then given that a contract extension would have to be negotiated.

 

The Yankees, for all of the deadline talk, remain open to the Twins coming back to them. But the Twins seem to love Jon Lester and aren’t crazy about Melky Cabrera.

 

Yankees fans in general put too much value on Cabrera. He’s a nice player but he has a career OPS of .728. Outside of his arm, he’s at best an average center fielder. I think he’s fine with the Yankees hitting eighth or ninth. But it’s not like he’s a budding star.

 

These GMs get paid to evaluate talent. If Minnesota likes Boston’s package, that is their choice.

 

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/04/yankees-will-not-change-their-offer/

[Taliesin]

Yankees fans in general put too much value on Cabrera. He’s a nice player but he has a career OPS of .728. Outside of his arm, he’s at best an average center fielder. I think he’s fine with the Yankees hitting eighth or ninth. But it’s not like he’s a budding star

 

How dare they say this about the guaranteed future perennial all-star and Hall of Famer.

[rician blast]

Just spoke to A Yankees Exec Who Can Be Trusted and learned this:

 

An indictment of the Yankee FO as a whole?

[26 to 6]

you sick f***!

haha

[26 to 6]

All I can say is my car and home insurance looks better than your insurance policy. Hopefully we see your insurance more often on the field.

I couldnt blame anybody for thinking that, or thinking im crazy for saying that. But when Igawa comes into his own and adapts to the American game he could be a reliable starter. Not that I would expect much from Chase Wright, but he's capable of of giving us a servicable outing if needed. Rasner is a guy who has all the potential in the world, but has been derailed due to injuries and lack of opportunity both in the Yankees and Expos/Nationals system. Healthy and at the top of his game he's a guy who has the ability to be a solid number 4 or 5. So while I respect and understand the opinions f everyone regarding the Yankee pitching depth, there's more than meets the eye. There's also several other guys I could touch on but I think you guys get my point. I'm satisfied with what we've got, even if we dont get a Santana, Haren (at Billy Beane's price I wouldnt want him anyway), Bedard, etc. Chein-Ming Wang won 19 games, and has more ML wins since June 2006 than anyone, Andy Pettitte is Andy Pettitte, Joba Chamberlain was the nastiest setup man in the game last year after he came up in August (Not that that translates to him being a dominate starter, but we'll have to wait and see), Phil Hughes is dynamite waiting to be ignited, etc. Not to mention Mike Mussina's back-end savvy.

[jacksonianmarch]

In terms of insurance...

 

The Sox top 5 would be

Santana

Beckett

Schilling

DiceK

Wake

 

the #6 would be Buchholz as the insurance. Past that, you have Michael Bowden and thats it.

 

For the Yankees...

1. Wang

2. Pettitte

3. Chamberlain

4. Hughes

5. Kennedy

 

The 6 being Mussina. After that, you have Horne, McCutchen, White, Sanchez, Marquez, Wright, Igawa, Karstens, Rasner.

 

By 2009, assuming a lot obviously...

1. Wang

2. Hughes

3. Chamberlain

4. Kennedy

5. FA signing most likely

 

with other guys maturing and coming into the roles. The same guys as above with the potential to have Heredia, Betances, Barreda, McCallister, Reyes, Nova and some of the other longer range guys. I dont think we lack in insurance policy. But if you want to make an analogy....

 

Your car is the supped up Mustang but your parts facility is running low.

 

Our car is the old mustang sitting on the blocks with an instruction manual and all the parts we could possibly want.

 

IE, if nothing goes wrong, your rotation with Santana is gonna be ridiculous. If we get some luck and the kids progress the way we think they can, we can match you, but likely not anytime soon as we still need to work the kinks out.

[Cocos Disciples]

If you get to put in all those guys as insurance starters, I can use: Pauley, Hansack, Tavarez, Snyder.

[jacksonianmarch]

The only guy with any projection left is Pauley, and he reminds me of Karstens, a lot.

[Cocos Disciples]

We're talking insurance here, not future starters. All of those guys (maybe not well) can come in for a few games in the year and take spot starts.

[jacksonianmarch]

Insurance to me is if a guy is out for an extended period of time. Nobody really cares if you need to have a spot starter throw a couple games. Lets say for argument's sake that Beckett takes a comebacker off the pitching hand, needs surgery and is out 3 months. This is the kind of insurance I am talking about.

[schillingouttheks]

I'll take my 6 starters that make up a tank rotation and the s***** insurance over your so-so, inexperienced, young rotation and f***ing insurance.

[jacksonianmarch]

oh no doubt. Your rotation with Santana is ridiculous.